 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2005Maybe the CF should die?
In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 > In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 Isn't the XD proprietary, like the Memory Stick? In that case, no, it shouldn't. We have had cards in and out lord knows how many times, and never bent a pin. I'm not sure how others do it, it may be a design flaw in some cameras, possibly too wide a tolerance in the slot?  SignatureSkip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com > We have had cards in and out lord knows how many times, and > never bent a pin. Same here, using several different really cheap card readers etc. I wonder if these morons are -forcing- the card in backwards? After seeing some idiot somehow plug a firewire cable in backwards, I'll believe anything! SignatureStacey A friend of mine bought A D70. She immediately put the card in sideways and bent a few pins. Nikon repaired it for CAD$125, which I figure is very reasonable. I like CF, and hope that it will continue to evolve for the next 10 years. And although I really don't like microdrives, it is the format that is most likely to have the greatest memory of all the tiny storage devices for quite a while. Cheers, Alan >A friend of mine bought A D70. > >She immediately put the card in sideways and bent a few pins. Not sure I understand what you mean by sideways. Do you mean 90 degrees off? I don't see how if one takes 30 sec to familiarize themselves with the D70, or a 990/5700 by my experience, how one could bend the pins. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >>A friend of mine bought A D70. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >off? I don't see how if one takes 30 sec to familiarize themselves with >the D70, or a 990/5700 by my experience, how one could bend the pins. Everyone says this, until it happens to them. Just trust in the fact it is happening. -Rich >>>A friend of mine bought A D70. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Everyone says this, until it happens to them. Just trust in the fact >it is happening. As does folks driving the wrong way on the interstate or filling their gas tank with diesel. Neither which imply any design defect. With all due respect to the OP and his wife, you can't legislate against stupidity. wrt the problem at hand, I've taken almost 18,000 shots between my 990/5700/D70. Using a card reader or portable storage unit at an average of 25 shots, that equates to (18,000/25) * 2 = 1440 insertions without a problem. Each camera has a different insertion orientation/mechanism, but it's quite evident which is the proper orientation, especially if one is prudent trying to insert the card. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >>>>A friend of mine bought A D70. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >it's quite evident which is the proper orientation, especially if one is >prudent trying to insert the card. You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for bent pins was $292.00. I guess you might look at it as a windfall for the camera maker, but people with the problem are not likely to re-buy from that mfg. when they hear the repair cost price. -Rich > You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might > be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for > bent pins was $292.00. I guess you might look at it as a windfall for > the camera maker, but people with the problem are not likely to re-buy > from that mfg. when they hear the repair cost price. > -Rich When I change cards, believe me, I'm in a hurry! And, like I said, neither my wife nor I have bent as much as a single pin on any of the card changes we've done. I'm just not sure how it is done, unless the slots are too large for the card, and allow a large degree of misalignment. SignatureSkip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com >> You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might >> be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > changes we've done. I'm just not sure how it is done, unless the slots > are too large for the card, and allow a large degree of misalignment. I have seen several digital cameras come in with bent CF slot pins, I agree it takes a certain level of skill to do this, but I have seen it several times. The Nikon Coolpix 5000 the card could be inserted wrong. >>> You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might >>> be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >it takes a certain level of skill to do this, but I have seen it several >times. The Nikon Coolpix 5000 the card could be inserted wrong. How on earth could any one insert them wrong. There are guide slots in the card and rails in the camera. To put one in wrong takes a *lot* of force unless the rails are busted out of the camera, or if the card itself has had the edges broken off.. The card will not go in, backwards or reversed from front to back without much greater effort than normal. There is a lip on the end opposite the pin connections. With both my D-70 and E-20N I hold the card so that lip is against my right thumb while holding the card between my thumb and first finger. I don't even have to look. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com [ ... ] >>I have seen several digital cameras come in with bent CF slot pins, I agree >>it takes a certain level of skill to do this, but I have seen it several [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >in, backwards or reversed from front to back without much greater >effort than normal. It still can be put in with one of the sides first, instead of one of the ends. The card is enough wider than it is long, so the guides can't protect against that -- though to anyone paying attention to the tactile feedback, it should become obvious that *something* is wrong before you apply enough force at the bottom to bend pins. >There is a lip on the end opposite the pin connections. With both my >D-70 and E-20N I hold the card so that lip is against my right thumb >while holding the card between my thumb and first finger. I don't >even have to look. Agreed. I got the impression that this was the first time this particular individual had inserted a card in this particular camera, so I guess that I could see it happening if the individual was not one who had a good feel for how things work together. I don't see this as a fault of the CF cards, however. They were designed to fit a task, not to protect against ham-fisted handling. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might > be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for > bent pins was $292.00. I guess you might look at it as a windfall for > the camera maker, but people with the problem are not likely to re-buy > from that mfg. when they hear the repair cost price. > -Rich All digital camera repairs are expensive, so it really doesn't matter what camera you buy, you break it'll be expensive. >>You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might >>be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > All digital camera repairs are expensive, so it really doesn't matter what > camera you buy, you break it'll be expensive. The other day I was at the local camera store when a fellow came in to buy a Canon 1D MK2. He had bought a Nikon D2 about a 1-1/2 years ago and while he was happy with the camera, there came a time when he said "the fuse in the camera had blown and needed replacing." You fellows who know the internal workings of the Nikon D2 would know something about this fuse thing. Blowing the fuse didn't bother him, he said, and it's not why he was jumping from Nikon to Canon. Nikon wanted $850 to replace the fuse. He said he told Nikon "he once was a Nikon camera repair technician and could repair the camera if Nikon would just sell him the fuse." Nikon refused to sell just the fuse, they wanted to replace the fuse board assembly too, at a cost of $850. The man claimed replacing the entire assembly wasn't necessary since he had taken apart the camera and can clearly see a new fuse can replace the old fuse. Again Nikon refused to sell just the fuse. That's what did the trick. In the heat of anger, he decided to go Canon because "friends" have claimed to have little to no problems with Canon." I can't verify this story and I told it as it was told by the fellow. Some of you fellows would know if it's BS or not. What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary to design such a nonservicable system? > What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary > to design such a nonservicable system? From what I gleaned from the conversation, the system could be serviceable, after all, the fellow was saying he (being a Nikon repairman, at one time) could replace the blown fuse if Nikon would sell him the fuse. Nikon would not sell him just the fuse and insisted the entire assembly had to be replaced and Nikon said they would replace the assembly if he wanted them to do the job. He asked for and got the camera returned to him. I just witnessed the conversation the fellow was having with the salesman. I could see as the one sided conversation continued, the fellow was getting himself worked up and I didn't feel it was a good time to talk to him. He darn sure talked loud enough for people to know he was pissed. When finished, he bought the Canon 1DMK2 with the Canon 28-135mm lens. >> What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary >> to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >he was pissed. When finished, he bought the Canon 1DMK2 with the Canon >28-135mm lens. It's unlikely Nikon made the fuse. I'd have looked for the mfg. My guess is it's by Raychem. But I understand jumping to Canon. >>>What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary >>>to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > My guess is it's by Raychem. > But I understand jumping to Canon. I really doubt that there's any "fuse" at all. From my experience as a computer repair tech, customers that know what they're talking about are few and far between. He probably needs a new main controller board, but doesn't know what that is, so he said "fuse". > I really doubt that there's any "fuse" at all. From my experience as a > computer repair tech, customers that know what they're talking about are > few and far between. He probably needs a new main controller board, but > doesn't know what that is, so he said "fuse". It's very possible, though miniature, surface mount fuese are widely used on electronic equipment. Usually they are used in applications where they are highly unlikely to ever blow; they're there for regulatory issues. >> I really doubt that there's any "fuse" at all. From my experience as a >> computer repair tech, customers that know what they're talking about are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >where they are highly unlikely to ever blow; they're there for >regulatory issues. I could see a fuse, in combination with a zener diode, being used to protect the solid-state flash sync circuitry from a reversed polarity or over-voltage. (Some PC flash cables have unkeyed two-pin connectors on the flash unit end of the cable.) The same for an external power connector, or for a USB port (which provides power). I know that there is a fuse on most Sun SPARCStations to protect the keyboard/mouse port from a cable wired for a different system (such as the (now defunct) Solbourne, which uses the same keyboard connector, and a SPARC CPU, but which has a mutually incompatible keyboard wiring -- the keyboard from either machine will blow the fuse on the other. :-) The older ones with AUI network connectors also had a fuse for that, as the AUI port needs to power a transceiver. Earlier machines used a bi-pin fuse for the task, which was easily replaced. Later ones use a SMD (Surface-Mounted Device) fuse, which is not considered to be user replaceable. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a > salary to design such a nonservicable system? I have doubts as to whether there ever /was/ a fuse. People would more likely use diodes for polarity protection. More likely the manufacturer didn't want someone without the proper training opening up the camera and, most likely, creating even more damage than already existed. David > > What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a > > salary to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > didn't want someone without the proper training opening up the camera and, > most likely, creating even more damage than already existed. You may be right. But my problem, if any of the original story is true, is the ownership of the camera. It quit belonging to Nikon in any manner when the purchaser took it out of the dealer's door, or the warranty expired, your choice. Thus, it is not Nikon's business how the owner chooses to repair it, or have it repaired or what the result is. >>> What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a >>> salary to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the owner chooses to repair it, or have it repaired or what the > result is. Whilst I didn't think that Nikon handled this situation [as reported] well, I do suspect though that Nikon, as the owner of a brand name with a reputation, are probably within their rights to refuse to supply a part if they think that the resulting job will not be done to their own quality standards. ["Look how badly this Ferrari works after I fixed it myself!] I am also concious that the repair of such kit is not simple, easy, or quick, and may require special test equipment to re-align correctly. There may also be health and safety issues. Cheers, David >> What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a >> salary to design such a nonservicable system? > > I have doubts as to whether there ever /was/ a fuse. I don't know specifically about DSLRs, but a lot of portable equipment has fuses and similar protection devices. Some also have a parallel protection diode which will cause the fuse to blow in the event reverse polarity is applied. The only reason the fuse is fitted is for safety (fire hazard) and is not meant to be replaced by the customer. It is also increasingly common for suppliers to only keep PCB assemblies and not individual electronic parts. However, if the owner had enough knowledge to diagnose the fuse they would have been able to find a substitute quite easily. -Mike > However, if the owner had enough knowledge to diagnose > the fuse they would have been able to find a substitute quite > easily. That's what doesn't make sense about this whole story. You can easily buy those tiny fuses. Most likely it is a 1206 or 0603 SMD fuse, as these are the smallest two sizes available. > What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary > to design such a nonservicable system? Non-servicable fuses are used on many products. I.e., for at least twenty years, PC motherboards have used them on the keyboard and mouse ports, on the +5V line (per UL/CSA/TUV). A picofuse is cheaper than the resettable over-current protection such as what is used on USB ports. >> What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary >> to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >ports, on the +5V line (per UL/CSA/TUV). A picofuse is cheaper than the >resettable over-current protection such as what is used on USB ports. But if he had had a resettable fuse he'd never have had the problem with Nikon in the first place. Sad. If the problem is cronic, the fuse would just keep going down, coming back up, then he'd have to go to Nikon for service. Maybe the cost Nikon quoted was for whatever else they suspect might be the problem? It's typical of service centres to not tell people what the real issues are in the breakdown of electronics. >> What events conspire to cause a fuse to blow? What EE got paid a salary >> to design such a nonservicable system? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >ports, on the +5V line (per UL/CSA/TUV). A picofuse is cheaper than the >resettable over-current protection such as what is used on USB ports. What fuse, or protection? The previous motherboard in this one had a problem with a game port to USB adapter. It took out the whole USB buss and bridge. It wasn't a fuse problem. Generally you can short the USB connector, disconnect and reboot if necessary and it'll go right back to working. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com > What fuse, or protection? UL decided that a short on the +5V line of the keyboard cable was a hazard, because the power supply could supply sufficient current at +5V to melt the keyboard cable, if a short occured. The fuse is not required, you can also use a keyboard cable that could withstand 20 amps or so of current, but everyone uses a picofuse of about 1 amp. The +5V of the PS/2 mouse port is also fused (they can share a fuse). The danger here is that for a while there were many peripherals that used a little dongle to draw +5V from the PS/2 ports. It was okay if it was just tens of mA, and it eliminated the need for a wall wart. USB controllers have over-current protection that shuts down the port if a device tries to draw too much current (500mA is the spec, but shutdown is at 1 amp). There were only three things UL looked at on motherboards, over-current protection on ports that supplied power to peripherals, double-isolation against Li-Ion batteries having any voltage applied to them (generally two diodes), and the PCB material. >> You mean like, "not in a hurry" as a professional photographer might >> be? The quote to fix a camera ($400 point and shoot) by the mfg. for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >we've done. I'm just not sure how it is done, unless the slots are too >large for the card, and allow a large degree of misalignment. Much the same here. I carry three cards. When I change them it's almost by feel. If they don't fit in the slot I just turn them around and push. There is no manual alignment. They have guide rails so it's almost impossible to put them in wrong. OTOH when I was teaching the intro to CS in grad school I had one girl who put the floppy in backwards. They fixed the computer, brought it back and ... yup...she did it again. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com People make mistakes. It happens. Maybe you've never made a mistake about anything in your life. But that's statistically unlikely. BTW: Wasn't my wife. I said a friend. Oh! You made a mistake. Gee. Go figure. She is also an excellent photographer, holds an MBA/finance and is comptroller for a large city in Canada. So I don't think stupidity is at the root of it. Cheers, Alan >She is also an excellent photographer, holds an MBA/finance and is >comptroller for a large city in Canada. So I don't think stupidity is >at the root of it. I'm not saying this to say anything about your friend, but a job as comptroller and an MBA in finance probably has almost no correlation to technical/physical intelligence. Signature<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm> ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< >>She is also an excellent photographer, holds an MBA/finance and is >>comptroller for a large city in Canada. So I don't think stupidity is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >comptroller and an MBA in finance probably has almost no correlation to >technical/physical intelligence. There is none. I taught the intro to CS to 5 classes of mostly business majors (195 students) while working as a GA on my masters in CS. Not only were most of them clueless about any thing technical, but there were less than 10 who could type. This was the "how to": turn it on, plug in a disk, run a program, import data, change it, export and save it, and shut the computer down. There were at least a couple of seniors who were not going to be among the survivors. Seldom does a degree in one field have any correlation to a person's ability in a different field whether technical or not. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com > >>She is also an excellent photographer, holds an MBA/finance and is > >>comptroller for a large city in Canada. So I don't think stupidity is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) > www.rogerhalstead.com You shoulda checked the MBAs out in PowerPoint use. With a little extra traing, most of those I've met could turn out a really neat looking package. Meaningless, but looking good. > You shoulda checked the MBAs out in PowerPoint use. With a little extra > traing, most of those I've met could turn out a really neat looking > package. Meaningless, but looking good. Don't get me started about the scourge of Powerpoint. If you want to turn out mind-numbing presentations that no customer or other audience will pay attention to, use Powerpoint, especially with all its cute features like animation. One technical training at my last company was all done in Powerpoint. I took digital pictures of all the engineers who were sleeping through the presentations. We could have just e-mailed the Powerpoint files to each person and saved a fortune on travel expenses. The next training, I begged them to let me do some real hands-on training, and it was very well received. >> You shoulda checked the MBAs out in PowerPoint use. With a little extra >> traing, most of those I've met could turn out a really neat looking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >will pay attention to, use Powerpoint, especially with all its cute >features like animation. Powerpoint was invented to make sure people all know the definition of boring. The liquid version is nyquil. > >> You shoulda checked the MBAs out in PowerPoint use. With a little extra > >> traing, most of those I've met could turn out a really neat looking [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Powerpoint was invented to make sure people all know the definition of > boring. The liquid version is nyquil. Heh. But PP doesn't HAVE to be boring. It's just that most of the people who use it...well, you figure it out. I've had good responses to the PowerPoint presentations I've sent off as book and article proposals, but they are short--the longest is, IIRC, 19 pages--and as dramatically laid out as possible, with several full page photos, and other pages about half text, half photos, and all of it meant for observation on a single computer screen. > I've had good responses to the PowerPoint presentations I've sent off > as book and article proposals, but they are short--the longest is, > IIRC, 19 pages--and as dramatically laid out as possible, with several > full page photos, and other pages about half text, half photos, and all > of it meant for observation on a single computer screen. Because you're not standing there, going through every slide. It's these 50+ page Powerpoints, read by someone who actually could keep their audience engaged better by using a white board, that are so incredibly bad. Some corporations now have guidelines on Powerpoint presentations, both length, and amount of content per page. One of my favorite customers to visit was Gateway (Gateway 2000 at the time). They had very strict time limits on meetings with vendors, so you learned to be concise and to the point. And you had to get done quick enough to catch the last flight out of Sioux City! > > I've had good responses to the PowerPoint presentations I've sent off > > as book and article proposals, but they are short--the longest is, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > learned to be concise and to the point. And you had to get done quick > enough to catch the last flight out of Sioux City! I once had an MBA boss. I recall her giving a PowerPoint presentation--the first I'd ever recognized as such, since this particular program wasn't one I used or paid attention to four years ago. This stuff pops up on screen, childishly done and badly written. Then she reads what's on the screen. I had already finished and was halfway into a nap as she got to the middle of each page. Whyinell do the READ sh.t that is on screen for everyone to read? It made no sense to me then, nor does it now, but I don't have an MBA. >People make mistakes. It happens. Maybe you've never made a mistake >about anything in your life. But that's statistically unlikely. > >BTW: Wasn't my wife. I said a friend. > Oh! You made a mistake. Gee. Go figure. I make them all the time. Such as you might focus on the problem at hand. >She is also an excellent photographer, holds an MBA/finance and is >comptroller for a large city in Canada. So I don't think stupidity is >at the root of it. First, I didn't say she was stupid. I said a portion of the population does stupid things. We have deadman switches on lawnmowers here in the US because someone got hurt doing something stupid. You said in another post she inserted the card sideways. If I understand what you are saying by this, this implies a fundamental lack of understanding of the device. The pins are at the bottom of the "well" so you need to point the holes in the card down. So she either never inserted a CF card before as by design they have to be inserted this way, or I haven't the foggiest. If you have an expensive piece of equipment it behooves one to familiarize oneself with it, no? The cost of not doing so, isn't trivial, so the ROI is high. ---------- Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com) See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html >People make mistakes. It happens. Maybe you've never made a mistake >about anything in your life. But that's statistically unlikely. And you are replying to who? Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com >BTW: Wasn't my wife. I said a friend. > Oh! You made a mistake. Gee. Go figure. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Cheers, >Alan >>A friend of mine bought A D70. >> >>She immediately put the card in sideways and bent a few pins. > >Not sure I understand what you mean by sideways. Do you mean 90 degrees >off? From checking with my D70, that would appear to be the only way to get it far enough in to bend the pins. It is unfortunate that the CF format is wider than it is long, so this is possible. Fully square would be better, or longer than it is wide. > I don't see how if one takes 30 sec to familiarize themselves with >the D70, or a 990/5700 by my experience, how one could bend the pins. If you don't know the camera, but have *any* feel for how things should go, the looseness of how it drops in at 90 degrees should serve as adequate warning. And -- there is an image on the access door showing the proper orientation, at least in part. But -- if you *do* drop it in at 90 degrees, and then *press* it, yes, I can see that bent pins would be very likely. Note, having read the discussion on the web site whose pointer started this discussion, I can see how the photo service could have multiple readers with bent pins, for one simple reason exemplified by an experience with the SCSI-II connector used by Sun. One of the pins on a cable as part of a new system was bent. When it was plugged into the mating female connector on the computer, it broke the partition between two sockets, and laid it over at an angle. Thereafter, any other cable plugged into the same socket would also get a bent pin, and any socket into which those were plugged would get a "deviated septum", so the problem would spread widely. (Now granted, these were flat blade pins, and were bent in the "strong" direction. I'm not sure what a bent round pin as is found in the CF sockets would do. Such a failure could just as easily propagate through all of the customer-accessible CF sockets in a printing house. I was able to fix all of the Sun equipment, starting with fine-pointed needle-nose pliers to straighten the pins in the connectors (which were rather accessible compared to a CF socket in a camera). I then used a medium sized safety pin to stand the partitions up again, and everything subsequently worked as intended. For the pins in a camera's CF socket, I would have to make a tool consisting of a small diameter rod with a hole just right to accept a pin drilled in the end (a jeweler's lathe job). With that, it should be possible to reach in, slide it over the bent pins (one at a time), and straighten them to the proper position. However, if they are too badly bent, an attempt to straighten the pin would be likely to break it off at the molded base, and the whole camera would have to be disassembled, and the connector replaced, which could be where the rather high-sounding quotes are coming from. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > If you don't know the camera, but have *any* feel for how things >should go, the looseness of how it drops in at 90 degrees should serve [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But -- if you *do* drop it in at 90 degrees, and then *press* >it, yes, I can see that bent pins would be very likely. Most of the bent pins I have seen have come from photographers in too much of a hurry when changing CF cards, shooting on assignment. If they don't take the time to use a proper case and drop them into a camera bag or pocket with the socket holes unprotected they can fill with pocket lint or sand particles. If they then try and reinsert them into the camera to download the images to a laptop...problems. [] > Most of the bent pins I have seen have come from photographers in too > much of a hurry when changing CF cards, shooting on assignment. If > they don't take the time to use a proper case and drop them into a > camera bag or pocket with the socket holes unprotected they can fill > with pocket lint or sand particles. If they then try and reinsert > them into the camera to download the images to a laptop...problems. What happened to the recommendation made to me coming from supposed professionals: change cards in advance? David On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:03:12 GMT, "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote: >What happened to the recommendation made to me coming from supposed >professionals: change cards in advance? In advance of what? The good shots you started getting, the action; what? > On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:03:12 GMT, "David J Taylor" > <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > In advance of what? The good shots you started getting, the action; > what? Presumably, the action? I'm just surprised that professionals would be changing cards in an excessive hurry, rather than ensuring they had plenty of spare space. David > > On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:03:12 GMT, "David J Taylor" > > <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > David Me, too. When I was shooting action stuff, the idea was always to have a full roll of film in each camera at the start of the action, and change during breaks of any kind. If you shot half a 36 exposure roll, you pulled it and popped in a full 36. About the only time that didn't apply was when you were shooting with a bulk back, but even there, with a motor drive, it was often better to be safe than miss that one in 10,000 shot. Film is cheap compared to missing something that is one time only! And for other stuff, film is cheap compared to reshoots. Yes 90 deg. Just reporting the facts. She did it. She paid for it. > In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. >> In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. >> >> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 > >Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. I've seen how SD cards mount in a Palm device, they are partially exposed and can be "released" by accident. Do they mount differently in cameras? -Rich >>> In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > in cameras? > -Rich The SD would now be my choice. In cameras I've seen the mounting is quite secure and not "partially exposed". The card is hidden behind a closed door. David [ ... ] >>> Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD >>> card. [ ... ] >> I've seen how SD cards mount in a Palm device, they are partially >> exposed and can be "released" by accident. Do they mount differently >> in cameras? >The SD would now be my choice. In cameras I've seen the mounting is quite >secure and not "partially exposed". The card is hidden behind a closed >door. The same applies to every camera that I've used with the CF cards. And, while I have ways to read CF cards in my Sun workstations, I don't think that I have a way to read an SD card, if that is the one which a friend has in his camera. I've not worked with anything but the PCMCIA cards (and hard drives) and the CF cards, so I don't know the various ones by sight. O.K. Looking at the 4-in-1 PCMCIA adaptor, I see that three of the four formats are SD, SmartMedia, and something whose logo looks like either a 'W' under several lines, or an "M" over several lines. This means that I should be able to read SD cards -- but my D70 won't use them, so I see no need to change. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- [] > O.K. Looking at the 4-in-1 PCMCIA adaptor, I see that three of > the four formats are SD, SmartMedia, and something whose logo looks > like > either a 'W' under several lines, or an "M" over several lines. This > means that I should be able to read SD cards -- but my D70 won't use > them, so I see no need to change. I don't think anyone would suggest you change or choose a camera purely on the basis of card type (unless you had a compulsion to use Microdrives!). Your next camera, though, or DSLR backup, may well be SD. David > [] >> O.K. Looking at the 4-in-1 PCMCIA adaptor, I see that three of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the basis of card type (unless you had a compulsion to use Microdrives!). > Your next camera, though, or DSLR backup, may well be SD. Oddly enough I see people coming in looking for cameras that accept SmartMedia or CF cards. "I paid $80 for this card in 2003 and I want to use it." > "David J Taylor" [] >> I don't think anyone would suggest you change or choose a camera >> purely on the basis of card type (unless you had a compulsion to use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > SmartMedia or CF cards. "I paid $80 for this card in 2003 and I want > to use it." We have friends like that as well! I usually figure that if I'm buying a new camera I'll need to get new storage with it. David >Oddly enough I see people coming in looking for cameras that accept >SmartMedia or CF cards. "I paid $80 for this card in 2003 and I want to use >it." I have a couple thousand bucks worth of CF cards. Both my cameras and my audio recorder use them. I'm very happy with the situation. I represent some kind of laughing stock to you because I have a preferred standard storage medium, and a desire to continue using it? > Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. Why not good, old-fashioned CF cards? We don't NEED anything smaller - CF cards are very robust - usually cheaper for the same capacity, and the larger physical format means they can cram in more memory at the same density, for a higher-capacity product. > > Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for the same capacity, and the larger physical format means they can cram in > more memory at the same density, for a higher-capacity product. CF cards now go up to 8MB. One MB cards are relatively cheap. I don't understand the need (desire) for smaller cards, myself. The CF card is just about large enough to not get lost amongst the keys in the pocket (in a case). It is small enough that a half dozen don't pouch out a shirt pocket very much. It is large enough to be easy to get in and out with a fingernail on its ridge. Bending pins? I guess it's possible, but I'm not exactly Joe Coordination, and I've never bent a pin, or even felt in danger of doing so. I have to wonder if the smaller cards aren't just manufacturers attempts to keep the market built up, to continue selling at higher prices, and to sell new, but unneeded, products just because they're new. In other words,what are the real advantages of SD and xD cards? Are there any or are the just gimmicks? > I have to wonder if the smaller cards aren't just manufacturers > attempts to keep the market built up, to continue selling at higher > prices, and to sell new, but unneeded, products just because they're > new. In other words,what are the real advantages of SD and xD cards? > Are there any or are the just gimmicks? I can see a use for, say, SD technology in such things as my PDA, but in SLR cameras I just can't see the need. Some memory is so thin it's actually quite scary taking it out of a camera :( >> > Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >CF cards now go up to 8MB. One MB cards are relatively cheap. I hope that you mean 8GB. My *smallest* (and oldest) CF card is 8MB. It came with the Nikon CoolPix 950, and quickly got replaced by cards which held more shots. :-) Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > >> > Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 8MB. It came with the Nikon CoolPix 950, and quickly got replaced by > cards which held more shots. :-) Yup. Gigabyte. Eight. Hell, I just bought a 512 MB, and wish I'd bought two, plus a two gig. >> Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD >> card. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > they can cram in more memory at the same density, for a > higher-capacity product. Why? Because SD cards have many fewer contacts, and each contact has a much larger area. The contacts are a wiping leaf rather than a very small pin and socket, so an SD card has the potential for a higher reliability and ruggedness. There really is little difference in price, although you are right about the greater volume which may help some people to handle CF cards, and could allow a greater capacity. David > Why? Because SD cards have many fewer contacts, and each contact has a > much larger area. The contacts are a wiping leaf rather than a very small > pin and socket, so an SD card has the potential for a higher reliability > and ruggedness. Can't say I've EVER had a reliability issue with either formats. > There really is little difference in price, although you are right about > the greater volume which may help some people to handle CF cards, and > could allow a greater capacity. Off the top of my head I think SD are up to 2GB and CF 8GB. It is much worse to lose 8 gig then 2 gig of information. I think many photographers would rather split there work up to limit the possiblity of loss of images to just one media. >> Why? Because SD cards have many fewer contacts, and each contact has a >> much larger area. The contacts are a wiping leaf rather than a very [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Off the top of my head I think SD are up to 2GB and CF 8GB. > Why? Because SD cards have many fewer contacts, and each contact has a > much larger area. The contacts are a wiping leaf rather than a very small > pin and socket, so an SD card has the potential for a higher reliability > and ruggedness. It's a good theory, but in reality it's not the SD card that has the issue, it's the SD card slot in the camera. They use a mechanical switch, similar to what's in a cassette deck, to do write protect. This switch can get damaged, and make EVERY SD card unreadable because the camera thinks that the card is write-protected. You can just dump the camera if it's a P&S, but for a D-SLR, you're looking at an expensive repair. > There really is little difference in price, although you are right about > the greater volume which may help some people to handle CF cards, and > could allow a greater capacity. In the higher capacity cards there is a big difference, at least percentage wise. I.e., I recently purchased a 2GB 50x CF card on sale at Fry's for $100. The 2GB SD cards don't go on sale for anything close to that, selling for around $180. > It's a good theory, but in reality it's not the SD card that has the > issue, it's the SD card slot in the camera. They use a mechanical [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > camera if it's a P&S, but for a D-SLR, you're looking at an expensive > repair. I am not aware that a WRITE(or Delete)-protect switch prevents READING the picture data off the card. Only in trying to WRITE/DELETE new image data does that become a problem if the switch goes faulty. >> There really is little difference in price, although you are right about >> the greater volume which may help some people to handle CF cards, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Fry's for $100. The 2GB SD cards don't go on sale for anything close to > that, selling for around $180. It's also a question of card read and write speeds too. Much more important for the sports action photographer than the studio based one, though. IME, the SD cards generally don't (yet) perform at the same speeds as the CF cards. SignatureNigel_H (Born Again Sucker) >>It's a good theory, but in reality it's not the SD card that has the >>issue, it's the SD card slot in the camera. They use a mechanical [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > picture data off the card. Only in trying to WRITE/DELETE new image data > does that become a problem if the switch goes faulty. Yes, my mistake. I should have said make EVERY SD card _unwriteable_. The camera is unusable, except for reviewing pictures already on the SD card. Just saw a Usenet post about his happening. If you see one post about something on Usenet, you can be pretty confident that the problem's been seen pretty often by the non-Usenet world. [] > Yes, my mistake. I should have said make EVERY SD card _unwriteable_. > The camera is unusable, except for reviewing pictures already on the > SD card. Just saw a Usenet post about his happening. If you see one > post about something on Usenet, you can be pretty confident that the > problem's been seen pretty often by the non-Usenet world. Just as we see postings about problems with CF cards where the pins have been bent in the camera requiring an expensive repair. Both of these card types can be abused, but I know which I now trust the more. When I was looking at 1GB cards, 60X/66X speeds, I found the cost was very similar. Cheers, David We've been using CF cards in digital cameras for around five years and have accumulated a fair variety of them, ranging in size from 32meg to 2gig. We've never had a single problem with any of them. As a guess, I'd say there's about a dozen of them. I also have a 512meg SD card used in in a backup camera which has caused no trouble in the two years or so of use. As someone else said, we use a variety of card readers and the one I've used for the last year or so is a very cheap 5 in one 1. From a personal experience standpoint, both formats suit us just fine. What David says here makes sense about the probable better reliability of the SD card. I can't see any big selling point for the large storage sizes either, since I think it makes sense to have less info on more cards in case of loss or failure. Another point I've heard mentioned in the various forums is the fact that a 512 is ideal because it fits on a CD. Having said all that, I wonder how anybody could determine whether a failure was the result of operator error or manufacturing defect over the phone or via e-mail. I would surely think they'd require the camera in hand to make that determination? Kitt > > Why? Because SD cards have many fewer contacts, and each contact has a > > much larger area. The contacts are a wiping leaf rather than a very small [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Fry's for $100. The 2GB SD cards don't go on sale for anything close to > that, selling for around $180. >>> Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD >>> card. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >pin and socket, so an SD card has the potential for a higher reliability >and ruggedness. The fewer pins suggests that the SD cards are serial data transfer, one bit at a time, so the speed is potentially much lower. The CF cards transfer 8 bits in parallel, so they are potentially much faster. (Assuming that you aren't limited by the speed of a slower USB bus anyway. :-) >There really is little difference in price, although you are right about >the greater volume which may help some people to handle CF cards, and >could allow a greater capacity. I like the form factor of the CF cards, and I think that I would be uncomfortable with the SD cards -- even though I am good at detail work. It just strikes me as being too easy to have it slip out of my hands when shuffling them in the field. And the CF cards have proven to be quite robust in unfriendly environments. I don't like the exposed contacts on the surface of the SD cards and similar. Far too easy to get a static zap into the card. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- [] > The fewer pins suggests that the SD cards are serial data > transfer, one bit at a time, so the speed is potentially much lower. > The CF cards transfer 8 bits in parallel, so they are potentially much > faster. (Assuming that you aren't limited by the speed of a slower > USB > bus anyway. :-) Yes, but today we have serial interfaces like USB 2.0 hi=speed, Firewire, Serial ATA etc. which have data rates several times faster that any of today's memory cards can handle, so being serial doesn't now worry me. > I like the form factor of the CF cards, and I think that I would > be uncomfortable with the SD cards -- even though I am good at detail > work. It just strikes me as being too easy to have it slip out of my > hands when shuffling them in the field. Yes, I see what you mean, so it's great to have the choice. > And the CF cards have proven to be quite robust in unfriendly > environments. I don't like the exposed contacts on the surface of the > SD cards and similar. Far too easy to get a static zap into the card. I presume that the interface design will take this into account, just as on chip-carrying smart credit cards etc. Cheers, David > > Why not the more common SD cards, rather than a semi-proprietary xD card. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for the same capacity, and the larger physical format means they can cram in > more memory at the same density, for a higher-capacity product. As long as you don't bend the pins in the camera, which I've seen several people's postings complain about. I do believe SD is now becoming the media of choice, except in the realm of DSLRs, and even there, there are DSLRs that support SD, either alone or in conjuction with CF. SignatureMichael Meissner email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org http://www.the-meissners.org Ha, the best part of that thread was where they call the 8080 "pro level gear." > In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 >Ha, the best part of that thread was where they call the 8080 "pro level >gear." > >> In favour of the xD, which is becomming more popular. >> >> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1008&thread=14270615 Well if you have a negative opinion of the 8080WZ than you may consider the 7070WZ I now own further away from "pro level gear" & I am NOT advocating that either are "pro lever gear". However both are quality P&S cameras with a lot of user definable features, anyway back on topic. CF /SD /xD memory cards. All of my the digital cameras I have & have used over the past 5 years, take CF cards including my DSLR. Yes it's possible to put a CF card into a CF card slot sideways in a camera or card reader & if you apply force, bent pins can result. Being that we are human & humans are prone to making mistakes, hopefully on rare occasions, it is possible to "accidentally" do so. As another person posted, it's unfortunate that the CF card is not longer than it is wide because if it was it would have made the card virtually "accident", "ignorant", "fool", "idiot" proof! No offence intended to anybody, we "all" have bad days @ times & a single error can prove costly as somebody here has mentioned. The Olympus C-7070WZ P&S has both a CF card slot & a xD card slot which I have populated with 2GB & 1GB cards respectively & can switch from 1 to the other if needed. Since I have a considerable collection of high capacity CF cards, they will be the primary card of choice but having a 1GB xD card in reserve which is but a single button push away to switch to it with the camera on & in rec. mode is a nice option but I hope I will rarely need to use it. With all of this said, xD cards are slower than CF cards & way to small for me to want to be changing then in the field quickly, drop 1 on the grass & good luck finding it! Hate to find it by that dreaded crunching noise underfoot. SD cards on the other hand, are larger & about as small as I would ever want camera memory to get aside from use in a few specialized cameras where a "very" tiny camera may be of value to some. CF is just the right size for me & yes it seems like Canon & others are trying to standardize on SD memory cards in all of their P&S line & therefore also offering DSLR's with both CF & SD slots which is what I whish Olympus did instead of the xD card but they likely did not want to abandon Olympus owners looking to upgrade, who wanted to keep on using their xD cards, so they kept xD compatibility. Lastly, for whatever reason the xD card in-camera is slower than the CF card in-camera (C-7070WZ). This is not due to the card being slower because according to @ least 2 reviews, the xD cards are capable of more than 2x the in-camera speed. This is of little concern to me because I don't plan on using it all that much, but it's nice to know that I have a 1GB flash memory buffer to switch to if needed. Also I share the concerns about possible static electricity charges on exposed contacts, especially with smaller cards which makes it harder to handle without touching them. Every type of flash memory card out there has it's good & bad attributes, but for "me" the CF will remain my primary choice but I would accept SD flash if I had need of a very small pocketable camera. Respectfully, DHB . "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 snip <Yes it's possible to put a CF card into a CF card slot sideways> It's also possible to jump in a bath with a bar heater. Connect the batteries to your car the wrong way around, light a match to see how much fuel is in your petrol tank, be crushed to death by a cigarette machine because you couldn't get your money back. There is no limits to human stupidity... but hey I do get the point. Good design should negate the posibility that you could insert the card the wrong way - end of story. That said...I like the size of the CF cards. It's got a 'meaty' feel about it. It's not too large but robust and easy to find. You can write on them, sit on them and they are bloody reliable. I like em....and won't be changing in a hurry.... |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.