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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2005

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Xt vs. 20D

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Ricardo Morte - 17 Jul 2005 05:03 GMT
OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was leaning
towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT given that
I'll have to buy a "kit" lens with the unit?  I mean, it seemed odd to me to
buy a 20d with the same kit lens as an XT for 500 samolians more....it seems
if I get the 20D I should get some good glass which brings the tag up to
around 1900 bux roughly,....you know?  I'm a bang for the buck type guy with
no existing lenses other for my old AE-1..

thanks for swaying me one way or the other...:)

rm
Skip M - 17 Jul 2005 05:50 GMT
> OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
> leaning towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> rm

You can get a 20D kit with the 17-85 f4-5.6 IS USM lens for $1999, or so.
Or buy either body only, and get the lens of your choice.  You don't have to
get it with any lens at all.
BTW, I have the 20D, and so does my wife.  We both feel the Rebel XT is too
small for comfortable handling, but you may fell different.

Signature

Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Robert R Kircher, Jr. - 17 Jul 2005 06:20 GMT
> OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
> leaning towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> thanks for swaying me one way or the other...:)

Talked to a professional friend of mine about this very subject when the XT
first came out.  His opinion was that it may be better to get the XT body
and then spend money for a good lens.  Sounded like a good idea until my
local store got a few XT's in and I had a chance to hold one.  IMO it's way
too small.  So...  I'm not holding off for a 20D to go along with my 300D.

--

Rob
Ricardo Morte - 17 Jul 2005 06:58 GMT
>> OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
>> leaning towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Rob

I hear ya....that's what I'm thinking too, although I may change my
mind....damn the choices !!
Vinnie - 17 Jul 2005 07:28 GMT
i have the xt and it is great the 20d just has a metel body. the images are
the same from both cameras. i got the xt with the 17-85 f4-5.6 IS USM lens
an i love it the 18-55 f3.5-5.6 kit lens is junk canon f.cked up on that
lens. just get a good lens for what ever camera you get.

Vinnie...

>> OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
>> leaning towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Rob

I hear ya....that's what I'm thinking too, although I may change my
mind....damn the choices !!
Robert R Kircher, Jr. - 17 Jul 2005 08:31 GMT
>i have the xt and it is great the 20d just has a metel body. the images are
> the same from both cameras. i got the xt with the 17-85 f4-5.6 IS USM lens
> an i love it the 18-55 f3.5-5.6 kit lens is junk canon f.cked up on that
> lens. just get a good lens for what ever camera you get.
>
> Vinnie...

There's no doubt that the XT is great camera.  My only issue was size.
Coming from my 300D the XT was just too small.

--

Rob
james - 18 Jul 2005 23:01 GMT
>There's no doubt that the XT is great camera.  My only issue was size.
>Coming from my 300D the XT was just too small.

It's not so much that it's too small...  It's too tight in a bad place.
You can't hold the grip.  What good is a "grip" that you can't "hold?"

Between this serious design flaw, and the top-mounted LCD, there's no
comparison.  The 20D wins.  Maybe not so much because it's far better,
but more because the XT is a bad design.

For me, the evaluation was no so much "buy up to the higher end model",
but rather, "consider this camera, look at the next one down, hated it,
so bought the bigger one."  Something like that.  It's upsetting,
because I would like to get a Rebel XT in order to have another body
that fits my lenses, but, I find it unusuable.  (That's how bad I think
this "size" problem is!)  Maybe the geometry of your hands is more
forgiving.  I wasn't able to deal with it, and I sure wasn't going to
*buy* it.  

Love my 20D.  Might have bought a Nikon if it was between the XT and the
D70, though.
Cockpit Colin - 17 Jul 2005 08:53 GMT
Have a careful read of the following comparison - I think it'll answer your
question ...

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html

From my own observations with the 350D ...

It IS a 'petite' camera, but I haven't had any issues operating it with
"fairly average sized blokes hands" - and if size is an issue then there is
an optional battery grip that you can purchase.

Having said that, the 20D appears to have a modest number of advantages, and
is by all accounts a more solid camera. I guess the fact that it weighs more
would be an advantage or a dis-advantage depending on which you'd prefer.

I tend to think of the 20D as being "one step up" from the 350D.

Cheers,

CC

> OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
> leaning towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> rm
Robert R Kircher, Jr. - 17 Jul 2005 16:49 GMT
> Have a careful read of the following comparison - I think it'll answer
> your question ...
>
> http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html

That's an excellent comparison and after reading it I'm glad I decided to
hold out for a 20D.

--

Rob
John A. Stovall - 17 Jul 2005 13:15 GMT
>OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was leaning
>towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT given that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>around 1900 bux roughly,....you know?  I'm a bang for the buck type guy with
>no existing lenses other for my old AE-1..

My question to you is why would anyone buy any camera with the "kit"
lens?

Buy a body and then get the best lens for it.

********************************************************

"A nice man is a man of nasty ideas."

          _Introductions to History of the Reformation_
                   Jonathan Swift
                      1667-1745
                   
David J Taylor - 17 Jul 2005 14:42 GMT
[]
> My question to you is why would anyone buy any camera with the "kit"
> lens?

Because it's the cheapest way to get up and running?

David
John A. Stovall - 17 Jul 2005 14:53 GMT
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:42:10 GMT, "David J Taylor"
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
wrote:

>[]
>> My question to you is why would anyone buy any camera with the "kit"
>> lens?
>
>Because it's the cheapest way to get up and running?

A false economy, better to know what lens you want with a body and
start with it.

********************************************************

"A nice man is a man of nasty ideas."

          _Introductions to History of the Reformation_
                   Jonathan Swift
                      1667-1745
                   
james - 18 Jul 2005 23:07 GMT
>A false economy, better to know what lens you want with a body and
>start with it.

I know what lenses I want.  At my current saving rate, I should be able
to buy one of them around December 2007.  I'd love to buy another lens
in the 18mm range, or wider, but for now the kit lens seems to be
working well, and my wallet is enjoying your "false economy."
Pete D - 19 Jul 2005 09:32 GMT
>>A false economy, better to know what lens you want with a body and
>>start with it.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> in the 18mm range, or wider, but for now the kit lens seems to be
> working well, and my wallet is enjoying your "false economy."

Some people simply do not have or will not have the money but can get a
basic kit.
james - 18 Jul 2005 23:05 GMT
>My question to you is why would anyone buy any camera with the "kit"
>lens?
>
>Buy a body and then get the best lens for it.

The "best lens" for the 20D is probably one of the L's in the $1600+
range.  While saving up for something like that, it's quite nice to have
the dreaded kit lens, thank you.

As for sub-$1000 18mm wide angle lenses, the 18-55 "junk lens" turns out
to be a decent performer.  

I would be camera-less if I took your advice.  Instead, I'm happily
taking photographs, many with the kit lens (which looks and feels like
sh.t, but takes good pictures to my eye), a 50mm f/1.4, which is
amazingly good, and a Tamron zoom, which is somewhat soft, but still
effective.  

Buy me a 70-200 f/2.8 L/IS and I'll shut up.  
Ricardo Morte - 22 Jul 2005 05:52 GMT
>>OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was
>>leaning
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Buy a body and then get the best lens for it.

Yes, but isn't that 20D kit lens ok for a hundred bux american to learn the
camera until such time a better lens can be purchased for those of us with
other currrent commitments?  Makes sense to me, although the kit lens
wouldn't be worth much on the aftermarket.

rm
Ben Rosengart - 22 Jul 2005 13:51 GMT
> Yes, but isn't that 20D kit lens ok for a hundred bux american to learn the
> camera until such time a better lens can be purchased

I think the 50mm f/1.8 is a better deal, but that's a subjective judgement.

Signature

Ben Rosengart                                            (212) 741-4400 x215
    Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
    questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
                                            --Josh Micah Marshall

james - 18 Jul 2005 22:55 GMT
>OK...I looked at both today in a camera store, and even though I was leaning
>towards the 20D....is there any reason I shouldn't get the XT given that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>thanks for swaying me one way or the other...:)

If the XT is comfortable in your hand, it may be a good value.
I couldn't stand it.  That alone did not justify the extra money
for the 20D, but together with a couple of other usability issues,
it was no contest.  The information you get in the LCD on the top
of the 20D is absolutely essential, and *very* handy on top, this seems
like a small thing but I don't think so.  

The control you get from the dial on the back of the 20D turns out to be
extremely useful.  If you shoot any kind of action at all, the 20D buffer
is a huge win.    If you shoot natural light indoors, the 20D autofocus
and exposure is better.  20D battery life is reported to be much better.
(And battery life was one of my main criteria.)  I appreciate a metal
camera body more than plastic.

The kit lens is plastic with a wobbly front element.  I can't believe
Canon made this lens.  But, it actually is fairly good, and I doubt
you'll find an 18mm that can replace it for anywhere near the price.

One motivation for getting into the Canon system is the excellent lenses
that are available.  That's assuming you have the budget for these
lenses, or whether you expect to.  The f/1.4 50mm EF/USM lens is truly
remarkable.  The f/1.8 50mm lens is only $75 and gets the job done.
There are some infamous EF zoom lenses out there.  You might get by with
an aftermarket lens like a Tamron, they range in quality and
performance.  I'm not into Zooms at all.  I want a very wide prime, a
very long prime, and I think I'll be done.
 
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