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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2005

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Shutter Life

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Cockpit Colin - 16 Jul 2005 23:59 GMT
Hi all,

I mentioned this in a previous post, but I think it got buried in the chat
about lens mounts ...

I noticed in the 350D specs that the shutter is rated at 50,000 operations,
and that the 20D is rated at 100,000.

I was a little disturbed by both of these figures - initially it seemed like
a big number, but when you can run off a burst of shots in a few seconds I
could see an enthusiastic photographer racking up these kinds of numbers
quite quickly.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever worn out a shutter mechanism,
and if anyone knows if it's possible (practical? economical?) to have it
replaced in a camera like the 350D?

Cheers,

CC
Walt Hanks - 17 Jul 2005 00:08 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> CC

We had this discussion a while back, so you may want to look up the old
thread.

The bottom line seemed to be that if you do more than 50K actuations/yr, you
might want to consider upgrading to a pro-grade body.

But for most amateurs or part-time pros, the camera will probably become
obsolete before the shutter gives out.

Walt
Charles - 17 Jul 2005 00:20 GMT
> I noticed in the 350D specs that the shutter is rated at 50,000 operations,
> and that the 20D is rated at 100,000.

I would take those specs with a grain of salt. I would guess they are
saying they should last at least that many actuations. It does not mean
that on actuation 50,000 plus one or 100,000 plus one the shutter will
fail. The people who most likely would wear out shutters in a short
amount of time will be photojournalist or sport photographers who would
be using pro level equipment, not the average photo enthusiest who uses
the 350D and 20D or the like.

Signature

Charles

Merritt Mullen - 17 Jul 2005 01:50 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I noticed in the 350D specs that the shutter is rated at 50,000 operations,
> and that the 20D is rated at 100,000.

I am not too concerned that the shutter in my D70 is going to wear out
very quickly, however, it does point out a significant difference between
how amateurs use film and digital cameras.

100,000 actuations is over 4000 rolls of 24 exposure 35mm film.  That is a
lot of film and expense for most amateurs (even at a roll a day, that is
over eleven years worth).  Of course for a professional, film costs are
not much of an issue, so a pro does not mind "wasting" a lot of film to
get the shot he wants.

I think you can see where I am going with this.  With a digital SLR there
is no film cost, and the amateur is free to shoot away, hoping for that
one special shot.

Based on that logic, I suspect shutters on amateur DSLRs are going to wear
out a lot sooner than similar shutters on amateur 35mm SLRs.  
Manufacturers may have to take that into consideration in their designs.

Merritt
Michael Meissner - 17 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and if anyone knows if it's possible (practical? economical?) to have it
> replaced in a camera like the 350D?

In pro level gear, I've heard of pros replacing their shutters, so it does
happen.  Whether the 350D is economical enough to have it done, I don't know.
It might make sense to replace it instead with whatever new body Canon is
selling at the time.  I agree with the other posters, that if you are getting
into the realm of running into the limit, you should be thinking about using
pro level gear (which is made to be used heavily).

As an ammeter, I've taken 600-800 pictures in a single day doing event and
vacation photography, but I don't do it day in and day out.  Looking at the
stats, I see I've taken 6,600 pictures since I bought my E-1 in December 30th,
which is a little more than 1,000 pictures average per month (note, the number
is a little bit higher since I've also taken pictures with my older camera in
the same period, but I also was doing a lot of test shots to learn the E-1).
At 1,000 pictures per month, I figure I have ~ 12 years before I reach the
150,000 actuation's that the specs call for, though it would be ~ 4 years if I
had the 350D.

Signature

Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org

RichA - 17 Jul 2005 04:59 GMT
>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>150,000 actuation's that the specs call for, though it would be ~ 4 years if I
>had the 350D.

Funny.  A $500 washing machine lasts at least 10 years, but a
camera...In any case, presumed improvements in camera technology
now seem to dictate buying a new one at least every five years.
-Rich
l e o - 17 Jul 2005 15:49 GMT
>>>Hi all,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> now seem to dictate buying a new one at least every five years.
> -Rich

Then you should compare the Mercedes Class C and E and see how long the
brakes of each class last.
james - 18 Jul 2005 22:41 GMT
>Funny.  A $500 washing machine lasts at least 10 years

If next year's washing machine does twice the load with half the water
in a fourth of the time, you'll consider buying one.  Trouble is, next
year's washing machine won't do that.  

This year's digital cameras are in a unique market position:  They are
the first really practical models!  We are just now seeing cameras that
converge on important usability areas, such as battery life, latency,
image quality, and capacity.   What came before, never quite performed
well enough to be on the plateau of human proportions, essential
requirements that were not met before, and are just barely being met
today, with the DSLRs and ZLRs; maybe some point&shoot models have the
latency problem sorted out, but I haven't seen them.  (What I have seen,
is a new flavor of snapshots, where it's obvious the subjects posed,
believed the exposure was done, and, un-posed in time for the shutter.)
Slack - 17 Jul 2005 04:35 GMT
> I noticed in the 350D specs that the shutter is rated at 50,000 operations,
>
> Cheers,
>
> CC

Just out of curiosity, where exactly did you find the 50k number.

--
Slack
Cockpit Colin - 17 Jul 2005 08:45 GMT
In a comparitive review at the following link - about 1/2 way down.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html
Slack - 18 Jul 2005 06:19 GMT
> In a comparitive review at the following link - about 1/2 way down.
>
> http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html

Thanks
Cockpit Colin - 17 Jul 2005 09:12 GMT
Thanks all - I guess at the end of the day it's not something I can do
anything about, so I'm probably better off to stop worrying about it, and
just deal with it when and if something happens.

Cheers,

CC
John_B - 17 Jul 2005 13:43 GMT
I can only speak for my 10D and it has
just over 25,000 photos in just under 2
years on it.
It's still working as good as new (so
far!).

"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote
in message
news:rjgCe.940$PL5.146650@news.xtra.co.n
z...
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> CC
John A. Stovall - 17 Jul 2005 14:00 GMT
>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>could see an enthusiastic photographer racking up these kinds of numbers
>quite quickly.

So?  You get it re-furbished.  Cameras are made to be repaired.

At a frame rate of 6 FPS that's over 16.6 hours of continuous
shooting.  

********************************************************

"A nice man is a man of nasty ideas."

          _Introductions to History of the Reformation_
                   Jonathan Swift
                      1667-1745
                   
Cockpit Colin - 18 Jul 2005 01:32 GMT
> So?  You get it re-furbished.  Cameras are made to be repaired.

Are they?

... and I really do mean that as a question.

I can see that top-of-the-range stuff would be, and entry-level
Point-n-Shoot wouldn't be - so for units like the 350D I'm wondering if they
would be refurnishable, or if they've simply fallen too close to the
"disposable" end of the market - Especially from places like New Zealand
where I suspect they'd have to be sent overseas for repair.
stefan patric - 17 Jul 2005 17:58 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and if anyone knows if it's possible (practical? economical?) to have it
> replaced in a camera like the 350D?

Those numbers are very conservative, probably calculated by a lawyer to
limit liability.  You'll get a lot more actuation in real life.  You'll
probably replace them with the "new and improved" model before you come
anywhere close to wearing them out.

Yes, I have worn out a shutter, 2 actually, on my film cameras, but I've
been shooting professionally with them, since 1978 and it took about 20
years to do it.  And I've run thousands of rolls through them.  I don't
really know the exact amount, but if I had to guess, I'd say at least
5,000 rolls, but maybe closer to 10,000 36 exposure rolls per camera.
The cameras? Nikon FM with motor drives, and the FM wasn't even considered
a "professional" camera, but one for the advance amateur.  So, it wasn't
as "beefy" as the pro model F2, that was THE camera in '78, and they still
lasted 20 years.

Stefan
 
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