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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / July 2005

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Nino - 09 Jun 2005 01:52 GMT
I'm about to purchase an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 printer ($850), or a Canon
i9900 ($450) does anyone has any experience with these units, or any
suggestions for a better photo printer in this price range (below 1K)?

Thanks
Mac Tabak - 09 Jun 2005 02:21 GMT
2nd hand Epson 7600

> I'm about to purchase an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 printer ($850), or a
> Canon i9900 ($450) does anyone has any experience with these units, or any
> suggestions for a better photo printer in this price range (below 1K)?
>
> Thanks
Stacey - 09 Jun 2005 04:12 GMT
> I'm about to purchase an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 printer ($850), or a
> Canon i9900 ($450) does anyone has any experience with these units, or any
> suggestions for a better photo printer in this price range (below 1K)?

I've got a i9900. The good points are it has a WIDE color gamut and is
capable of producing very nice vivid colored prints very quickly. It can
actually use most of aRGB and the ink tanks seem to last for quite a few
prints compared to other photo pronters I've used

. The bad thing is the profiles that are supplied witrh it are junk or the
sample to sample variations are too great which I believe is the real
issue. Until I bought a custom profile from Cathy's, it produced
substandard prints IMHO, didn't even come close to matching my profiled
monitor which my older canon 8200 works fine with. The first one I got was
so far off in it's magenta cast, canon replaced it with another printer
(there service was excellent)  which turned out to be much closer but was
still off some.

So figure the cost of profile(s) in the cost of the printer. I just picked
one paper, ilford classic pearl, had a profile made and am loving it.

Signature


 Stacey

Frederick - 09 Jun 2005 05:33 GMT
> I'm about to purchase an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 printer ($850), or a Canon
> i9900 ($450) does anyone has any experience with these units, or any
> suggestions for a better photo printer in this price range (below 1K)?
>
> Thanks

If full control of A3+ B&W prints are what you want, then a R2400 might
be just what you want - with a catch - that you will need to change
black ink cartridges when switching from matte to glossy papers.  Not
sure if the 3pl minimum droplet size will have any visible detrimental
effect on colour vs the smaller droplet size of the R1800/i9900.
Otherwise look at Epson R1800 / Canon i9900/9950 / HP 8750.

Go to http://www.photo-i.co.uk

A full review of this printer is underway now, as well as a review
available on the HP 8750 and Epson R1800.

A very appropriate (and diplomatic) comment from that site:

"The thing that strikes me is just how good all the printers are. Canon
printers produce bold sharp pictures, HP printers produce vibrant
colours, Epson dye based printers produce lively colours and Epson
pigment printers produce subtle shades. Choosing which is the best
printer is like asking a mother to choose her favourite child. Each
printer has its own good points and depending on your style of
photography, you make your choice."
birdman - 09 Jun 2005 05:43 GMT
Learn from the mistakes of others:
Forgetting the technical issues regarding which printers clog or whatever,
my sad experience, which I don't think is unique, is that Canon has possibly
the world's worst implementation of color management in its driver software
of any inkjet manufacturer.
The supplied profiles for Canon's two surfaces (really matte and glossy
only) used with Canon's color management protocols yield prints that are off
color with only a randomly predictable relationship to a calibrated monitor.
Epson printers, particularly at the high end, are light years ahead of Canon
for use in an Adobe style color managed environment. Epson's canned profiles
for its several paper surface types in and of themselves will yield
reasonably accurate prints in just a monitor calibrated environment.
If you buy or make custom printer/paper profiles, e.g. using a Macbeth or
Monaco system, then the Canon printer may live up to its potential. Unless
you are prepared to do that I would stay away from Canon printers. I would
stay away from all high end printers, in fact, unless you are able to
implement some sort of hardware calibration . . .  large off-color prints
get real expensive real fast.
Gambo - 10 Jun 2005 00:17 GMT
> I'm about to purchase an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 printer ($850), or a Canon
> i9900 ($450) does anyone has any experience with these units, or any
> suggestions for a better photo printer in this price range (below 1K)?
>
> Thanks

I love the i9900.  beats chemical prints to my eye.  Can't really
comment on ink/paper longevity...yet.  So far no apparent fading for the
prints I have framed and hung, but none are in direct sunlight, near the
elements etc. and none of the prints are more than six months old.
Bubbabob - 10 Jun 2005 03:41 GMT
> I love the i9900.  beats chemical prints to my eye.  Can't really
> comment on ink/paper longevity...yet.  So far no apparent fading for the
> prints I have framed and hung, but none are in direct sunlight, near the
> elements etc. and none of the prints are more than six months old.

Ozone will kill them faster than anything else. They have a life of less
than 6 weeks in my somewhat ozone-rich work environment. The cyans and
blacks are most affected, both turn orange. Very orange.
Crapper - 10 Jun 2005 04:12 GMT
I love my i9900 aquired a few weeks ago. Several prints looks great. No fade
yet. It took time to decide as I needed a printer that could go 13x19. Epson
from what I have read had too many head problems, but there again some never
did.
 Price make me decide Canon was on sale, 100 off and I had a 50.00 coupon.
$350.00 not bad. Ink cost also better.

 What would have a rich ozone environment to fade them.

>> I love the i9900.  beats chemical prints to my eye.  Can't really
>> comment on ink/paper longevity...yet.  So far no apparent fading for the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> than 6 weeks in my somewhat ozone-rich work environment. The cyans and
> blacks are most affected, both turn orange. Very orange.
DoN. Nichols - 10 Jun 2005 05:54 GMT
    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

>> Ozone will kill them faster than anything else. They have a life of less
>> than 6 weeks in my somewhat ozone-rich work environment. The cyans and
>> blacks are most affected, both turn orange. Very orange.

>I love my i9900 aquired a few weeks ago. Several prints looks great. No fade
>yet.

    [ ... ]

>  What would have a rich ozone environment to fade them.

    Any place where there is high voltage.  Some examples are CRTs
(large color ones in particular), and laser printers (the HV is used to
charge the drum to attract the toner.)  At least one laser printer, made
by DEC, had a carbon filter to absorb the ozone, and replacement of that
was done at the same time as other maintainence, but most (such as my HP
LaserJet 4) do not.

    Also -- hard UV light (such as bacteriocidal(sp?) lamps)
generate ozone.

    And the sparks in universal motors do as well.  Most motors in
the home are now induction motors, but electric drills, and perhaps
mixers in the kitchen may have commutators and brushes, and thus will
generate some ozone while running.

    Enjoy,
        DoN.
Signature

Email:   <dnichols@d-and-d.com>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
          --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Frederick - 10 Jun 2005 09:15 GMT
>     [ ... ]
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> mixers in the kitchen may have commutators and brushes, and thus will
> generate some ozone while running.

In addition, high levels of ozone are going to be found in cities.  It
is formed by the reaction of sunlight and heat with VOCs and NOx from
vehicle emmisions.

Bubbabob's description of blues and blacks fading first is consistent
with ozone fading of dyes.  But I have also had (HP) dye inkjet prints
fade considerably over a period of weeks exposure at home, which I think
was more attributable to UV (high UV levels in NZ - somewhat ironically
the result in part of ozone depletion in the stratosphere, also claimed
to be the result of other man-made pollutants).  Cibachrome prints
mounted behind glass last a few years only in my house.

Ozone fading is apparently worse in high humidity environments.  I
expect that it would also be worse on non gloss papers - as the surface
area of dye exposed is much greater.  It might be reduced by some of the
protective sprays that can be applied to inkjet prints.  For sure,
putting the print behind glass would be a great help.  Don't get too
hung up on the type of glass.  I have read that so-called archival UV
resistant glass is only 10% better than normal stuff.

Canon are aware of the real life limitations of dye - they are releasing
pigment ink based professional printers.  Also, given that the
encapsulation of the dyestuff within the coating on the paper is going
to be critical to the longevity of the print, I am surprised at the
confidence many people seem to have in the expected longevity of their
Canon dye inkjet prints on non OEM papers.  Canon are about as likely to
share the technology behind their ink/paper combinations with third
party paper suppliers, as they have been to share the electronic
technology of their lenses with Sigma.
Bubbabob - 11 Jun 2005 05:21 GMT
> Canon are aware of the real life limitations of dye - they are
> releasing pigment ink based professional printers.  Also, given that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> with third party paper suppliers, as they have been to share the
> electronic technology of their lenses with Sigma.

Canon provides their new BCE-7 dye set with Japanese i9900 printers but
they refuse to sell it anywhere else. It's supposed to be much more
lightfast and ozone resistant.
Nik Beard - 16 Jun 2005 20:35 GMT
Just got an HP8450 and it rocks!...Completely. Never been so pleased with
the output from a photoprinter. Used Epson before with mixed results.

>> Canon are aware of the real life limitations of dye - they are
>> releasing pigment ink based professional printers.  Also, given that
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> they refuse to sell it anywhere else. It's supposed to be much more
> lightfast and ozone resistant.
jean - 10 Jul 2005 10:35 GMT
I would suggest Epson R2400.

I am using Epson 4800 ink on R2400 through InkRepublic.com's R2400
CFS.

http://www.inkrepublic.com/ProductDetail.asp?item=R2400

I bought larger cartridge of 4800, extract ink from them, and fill
them into CFS' empty bottles.
 
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