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Photo Forum / Digital Photography / DSLR Cameras / May 2005D70 vs 10D
Hello, I have been contemplating the purchase of a Nikon D70 for the past 3 or 4 months, and it looks like I am going to be ready to purchase within the next week or so. I have noticed that you can usually get a pretty good price on a used 10D, sometimes with a couple of fairly good lenses on eBay. Just yesterday, a 10D and a 28-135 IS went for $1000. How would this camera compare to a D70 with the 18-70 lens, say if the Canon had a 28-105 USM? Obviously, the 28-105 is not as wide, but what would be gained going with the Nikon? What would be gained with the Canon? I cannot afford the 20D and a good lens, and I refuse to use the kit lens with the Canons. I am a former videographer and owned a D1 when they first came out. I also had a Nikon AFS 17-35 f2.8, which was an outstanding lens. I will use the camera for product shots for my website using studio lighting and a tripod and also for a general camera for family and vacations. Any help is greatly appreciated. Tim  SignatureTim & Christine Walsh Arizona Tribal Collectors www.tribalcollectors.com How many shots has the 2-3-4 year old 10D taken?? May not be quite the bargain you are hoping for. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Tim >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Tim You may not find many people who have useful experience of both cameras - and I certainly don't. However, FWIW, I can say two things: (1) I have had a 10D for almost 2 years and have found it very good indeed - and I am quite fussy about camera quality (my film cameras include EOS 1n/1nRS, Contax G2, Mamiya 6 and Linhof 5x4). Build quality is good, and the quality of the pictures is a little better than I expected provided I use RAW and do all the sharpening in software. Noise is surprisingly low, even in 30 second ISO 1600 micrographs I have done. However, it is fair to say that most of the reports I have heard about the D70 have been equally good. The major drawback - the lack of decent affordable very wide angle lenses - is a problem which I believe is common to both. (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or photomicrography). The 10D (along with all other Canon SLRs I have tried) meters quite happily with no signal from a lens - though you may need to use some (fairly consistent) compensation. The D70 - so I am informed by a friend who is a well respected professional photomicrographer - is a real pain to use in this way. In fact he found it so painful that last time I spoke to him he was planning to sell a lifetime collection of Nikon equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk 2. I suspect that, if you do not intend to stray into macro/micro work, then whichever system you have lenses for, or (if none) whichever feels better in the hand, will serve your needs very well. David SignatureDavid Littlewood > >Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > David Might be an option to consider the Nikon D2x. More lens compatibility than the D70. >>Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > spoke to him he was planning to sell a lifetime collection of Nikon > equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk 2. David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? Thanks. > I suspect that, if you do not intend to stray into macro/micro work, then > whichever system you have lenses for, or (if none) whichever feels better > in the hand, will serve your needs very well. > > David [ ... ] >> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a >> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? As an owner and frequent user of a D70, I can testify that it cannot do stop down metering at all. All metering is disabled when the camera does not sense a CPU in the lens. It even locks out the exposure button, unless you switch to the 'M' (manual exposure) mode. For things which are not changing rapidly, it is possible to take a few trial exposures, and adjust by first what the LCD looks like, and when you get closer, by the histogram which it will happily display for you. But for quickly changing scenes, (where stop-down metering is awkward anyway), you are stuck. Handheld meter is about what you need. (Of course, I've shot lots of images before built-in meters were available, but newer users may not have that experience -- or the hand-held meter.) You *can* do metering with another lens, and then switch to the one which does not support metering, remembering the exposure values which the other lens gave. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Enjoy, > DoN. So it will do "full manual", thanks. >> You *can* do metering with another lens, and then switch to the one >> which does not support metering, remembering the exposure values which [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So it will do "full manual", thanks. I will indeed. You can also plop a meter onto the accessory shoe. I have an old Leica MC meter that works fine (although it does look a bit weird!). Signature? > Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? None. Manual mode and check the preview is the only option. It is not that hard with digital though. SignaturePaul Furman http://www.edgehill.net/1 san francisco native plants >> Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? > > None. > Manual mode and check the preview is the only option. It is not that hard > with digital though. Of course not and with a bit of practice it would become second nature, bit like when I run manual for many indoor shots, I just know what sort of settings will work (with an older fully manual flash I have anyway), thanks guys. I assume this has not been added in the S or the latest software update. >>> Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >like when I run manual for many indoor shots, I just know what sort of >settings will work (with an older fully manual flash I have anyway), Yep -- that's the way. And far better with the feedback from the display than the days (pre light meter) of guessing the exposure by the time of day and the speed of the film -- and not knowing the results until it is developed. :-) > thanks >guys. I assume this has not been added in the S or the latest software >update. You mean stop-down metering? I believe not for the D70s, and I certainly can't find it on the firmware upgrade for the D70. There has been some speculation on this newsgroup recently concerning ways which Nikon *might* have done it, if they so desired. But they did not -- at least yet. We can continue to hope. One consideration might be the time that the depth-of-field preview needs to be active for stop-down metering (considering that they only support mirror lock-up for camera sensor cleaning, and that is ended *only* by turning the camera off. They warn to only do this with an AC power supply -- though most are willing to do it with a freshly-charged battery. Enjoy, DoN. SignatureEmail: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- >>>> Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Enjoy, > DoN. Seriously Nikon should have included both mirror lockup and stop down metering in the D70s, the D70 deserves it. > Seriously Nikon should have included both mirror lockup and stop down > metering in the D70s, the D70 deserves it. Mirror lockup is not physically possible in this camera due to the interlocking costruction of the shutter and mirror. Too bad but true. Stop down metering IS possible and should be implemented. They should also provide for the ability to store user curves on a subdirectory of the CF card so that you could choose a particular curve in the field. This would, however, remove the main reason that people buy their horrible Nikon Capture software for $100 so don't hold your breath. >> Seriously Nikon should have included both mirror lockup and stop down >> metering in the D70s, the D70 deserves it. > >Mirror lockup is not physically possible in this camera due to the >interlocking costruction of the shutter and mirror. Too bad but true. Stop To me the only two lacking points are the lack of a mirror lock up for shooting and a cable remote. Although the IR remote works well, it does not work well from behind the camera. You can get by though, but sticking a reflector that can see you and the sensor at the same time. It works, but then you need to be within a few feet. >down metering IS possible and should be implemented. They should also >provide for the ability to store user curves on a subdirectory of the CF >card so that you could choose a particular curve in the field. This would, >however, remove the main reason that people buy their horrible Nikon Not a reason to purchase Nikon Capture at all. Use Photoshop or one of the other good image processing programs. >Capture software for $100 so don't hold your breath. I started with one of the very first D70s out. I still don't have Nikon Capture. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com >> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a >> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all? >Thanks. I have little direct experience of Nikon bodies. IIRC I was told that there is a kludge which allows some kind of photography with a non-metering lens, but I don't know what it is, only that it is not convenient. David SignatureDavid Littlewood >>> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a >>> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > David Does reduce the usability of older manual lenses like on the Pentax D and Ds and I assume the Canons? >>>> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a >>>> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Does reduce the usability of older manual lenses like on the Pentax D and Ds >and I assume the Canons? Certainly, using old manual focus lenses is quite feasible on Canon film and digital SLR bodies. There is a very interesting article in this week's issue of Amateur Photographer (UK mag) by someone who uses M42 lenses on an EOS 10D. Ironically, because of the flange-to-image plane distances and throat diameters, this is a lot easier with M42 lenses than it is with Canon manual focus FD lenses. I would assume that the Nikon bodies, with no stop down metering, would have to be used with manual metering, though this should be perfectly OK with a good incident meter - I often override my camera metering using a Minolta FM V. David SignatureDavid Littlewood > Certainly, using old manual focus lenses is quite feasible on Canon > film and digital SLR bodies. There is a very interesting article in > this week's issue of Amateur Photographer (UK mag) by someone who uses > M42 lenses on an EOS 10D. I have also read about people using Nikon manual lenses on Canon D-SLRs with the help of a simple adapter plate. The lenses still focus to infinity. The metering works (unlike with the consumer and prosumer Nikon D-SLRs) fine. Obviously no AF, but potentially some good sharp pictures could be had from some very reasonably priced lenses. Unfortunately the Canon FD lenses seem to be among the hardest to utilize on any new camera. SignatureMark Heyes (New Zealand) See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 3-May-05) "There are 10 types of people, those that understand binary and those that don't" >> Certainly, using old manual focus lenses is quite feasible on Canon >> film and digital SLR bodies. There is a very interesting article in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Unfortunately the Canon FD lenses seem to be among the hardest to utilize > on any new camera. I do find it interesting that my Pentax D-SLR does mirror lockup and also does stop down metering, for someone like me that likes to play around with older cheapy lenses. Now if there was some nice fast glass in the 18-50 and 70-200 range at some good prices I would be happier. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Tim The 18-70mm Nikkor is light years ahead of the 28-135mm Canon in terms of sharpness and compatibility with a DSLR. As osmeone pointed out, check the mileage on the 10D before you put down your money. The shutters in these DSLR's get a lot more use than the ones in film SLR's. My D30 shutter had to be replaced after 8 or 9 months heavy usage. Simply wore out. Signature? |
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