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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2003Saint Ansel Rediscovered:Calling All Zoneheads
I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this article. I hope the link works. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/20/DDG7U3QDG91.DTL Did Saint Ansel have a secret life? These photos are so far away from what we've come to associate him with. > I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this > article. I hope the link works: > http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/20/DDG7U3QDG91.DTL > [interior pictures of the St. Francis Hotel] > Did Saint Ansel have a secret life? These photos are so far away from what > we've [who's this "we"? ed.] come to associate him with. Those who do not pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it. These photos are neither new nor news. The lighting techniques for the bar pictures are described in his book 'Artificial Light'. As the article points out he did lots of commercial work; even saints have to eat. There was also a series of UofC campus buildings, pretty ho-hum. Voting for the formation of rec.photo.graybeards.... -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. >>I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this >>article. I hope the link works: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > These photos are neither new nor news. There's a little demon whispering in my ear that someone should post those images to Photosig under a pseudonym as an experiment. I bet they'd get a very small number of ratings, most of which would be one-thumbs-up or down. Dana On 12/20/2003 10:01 AM Nicholas O. Lindan spake thus: >> I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this >> article. I hope the link works: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The lighting techniques for the bar pictures are described in > his book 'Artificial Light'. That photo of the St. Francis bar is in "The Negative", I believe. (Either there or "The Camera".) > There was also a series of UofC campus buildings, pretty ho-hum. That was "Fiat Lux", which was a work commissioned by the U.C. regents. Some beautiful stuff therein, even if some of it is a bit quotidian.  SignatureFocus: A very overrated feature. - From Marcy Merrill's lexicon at Junk Store Cameras (http://merrillphoto.com/JunkStoreCameras.htm) > > I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this > > article. I hope the link works: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > These photos are neither new nor news. Uh, it was news today in the S.F. Chronicle, Nik. Just thought it would amuse some of you. > "Nicholas O. Lindan" <nolindan@ix.netcom.com> wrote > > > http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/20/DDG7U3QDG91.DTL [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Uh, it was news today in the S.F. Chronicle, Nick. Just thought it would > amuse some of you. Yeah, sorry. Grumpy morning. His book 'Artificial Light' is worth a read -- available used from abebooks.com. His picture of the hotel bar was made with the shutter open while he and his assistant ran around the room with a photoflood in a reflector, painting in the light to make the leather gleam and the brass fittings glow. I wonder if patrons were discouraged when they found the real bar didn't have accent lights hidden in the foot rail. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed this > article. I hope the link works. > http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/12/20/DDG7U3QDG91.DTL > > Did Saint Ansel have a secret life? These photos are so far away from what > we've come to associate him with. He did commercial work like most in his profession - he considered such commissions to be work and his efforts in Yosemite and similar locations to be a combination of art and playing. There's an exhibit of Adams' prints at the Mumm's winery in Napa Valley northeast of S.F.. There are a few of his most famous - clearing winter storm, snake river and tetons, dogwoods on tenaya creek in spring - on loan from the family. But the major part of the exhibit are photographs commissioned by Paul Masson, a friend of Adams, to document winery operations in the 1930s. They are technically excellent but not inspiring - I describe them as ordinary for a professional photographer. As someone else said, even the artist has to eat. Bob in Las Vegas > > I was looking at the S.F. Chronicle online this morning when I noticed > this [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > As someone else said, even the artist has to eat. I have seen some of his other work when he was given a little more leeway as to the subject. I'm thinking of the photo where he has the photo pf the farm family resting in the front yard in the shade. It's in his 'Examples" book. This was done on commission for a bank. This has a lot more 'Ansel" in it and not as much "What The Customer Wants" in it. It's the bane of all artsts- making a living. When you are a professional, you must make what the customer wants and makes him happy. Even if it is sh.t. You may be the troubador of the ages but, if you want to make the house payments, you are down at the Holiday Inn playing 'Feelings' on the synthisizer and drum machine if that is what the owner wants (and is only willing) to pay for. Remember the famous scene from "The Blues Brothers"? Jake and Elwood sceme a gig in a bar, only finding out it was a C&W bar afterwards. The power gets turned off when they try to play their brand of Stax/Volt R&B. They end up playing the "Theme From 'Rawhide'" And "Stand By Your Man" mulitple times because that's what the owner wanted. I guess that is just how it is. Jeff > It's the bane of all artsts- making a living. When you are a > professional, you must make what the customer wants and makes him > happy. Even if it is sh.t. You may be the troubador of the ages but, > if you want to make the house payments, you are down at the Holiday Inn > playing 'Feelings' on the synthisizer and drum machine if that is what > the owner wants (and is only willing) to pay for. I think it is more the bane of performers who believe they are artists. If one is really the troubadour of the ages then people will listen. If folks aren't listening then one isn't much of a troubadour. The old adage of the tree falling in the empty forest applies to art -- if nobody observes then not only isn't it art but it never even happened. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > If one is really the troubadour of the ages then people will listen. If > folks aren't listening then one isn't much of a troubadour. > > The old adage of the tree falling in the empty forest applies to art -- > if nobody observes then not only isn't it art but it never even happened. Didn't Weston basically have to live off hand outs from Adams. Plenty of other people who died in proverty but thier work is now considered quite good. Using your reasoning a Big Mac is the worlds greatest food ever. No? Nick > If one is really the troubadour of the ages then people will listen. If > folks aren't listening then one isn't much of a troubadour. > > The old adage of the tree falling in the empty forest applies to art -- > if nobody observes then not only isn't it art but it never even happened. That depends and I think your statement is made with much too broad a brush, ever watch the antiques roadshow? Lots of lesser known artist etc, become more popular after death and small rarer works often fetch big bucks. SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank > > It's the bane of all artsts- making a living. When you are a > > professional, you must make what the customer wants and makes him [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If one is really the troubadour of the ages then people will listen. If > folks aren't listening then one isn't much of a troubadour. That's not necessarily true at all. Luck, circumstances, and good promotion has a lot to do with it -- often more so than if you really have talent and deserve recognition. Certainly Adams had talent and deserves his status, but it was in fact the business management of William Turnage that made Adams, while well known in photography circles, the most famous photographer in the world. There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even just dumb luck. > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even > just dumb luck. I disagree about dumb luck, completely. SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank > > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > > singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even > > just dumb luck. > > I disagree about dumb luck, completely. Serendipity often plays a part. > > > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > > > singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Serendipity often plays a part. Hmmm... Tiny Tim had his 15 minutes of glory with his Tiptoe Thru the Tulips and some good handling. Bert Who lived across from him, W 163rd Street, New York before he became famous >>There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet >>singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even >>just dumb luck. > > I disagree about dumb luck, completely. I have one word for you: Madonna. Dana >>>There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet >>>singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Madonna. That was certainly not luck. That was talent. What her talents are is debatable but she had the drive and skill to do what it took to become a superstar. Regards, John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com Please remove the "_" when replying via email > >>>There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > >>>singularly famous and successful due to mainly good marketing or even [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > That was certainly not luck. That was talent. What her talents > are is debatable Plainly obvious, I think. It's called sex :) > but she had the drive and skill to do what it took to > become a superstar. Like walk down the street in broad daylight without a stitch on. Madonna is definitely what I would call a performance artist. But certainly no musician and has little musical talent IMO. Ditto for little madonna, that is, britney > > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > > singularly famous and successful due to ... [under debate] > Maddona "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people" -- H. L. Menken 68% of everything is mediocre. 16% of everything doesn't even rise to mediocrity. The chances for being in America's top (or bottom) 100 of anything are .00003% -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > > > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > > > singularly famous and successful due to ... [under debate] [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The chances for being in America's top (or bottom) > 100 of anything are .00003% When there is such a disparity between "quality" and "mediocrity" who is really qualified to make the judgements? SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank "Gregory W Blank" <gblank@despamit.net> wrote > > > > There's lots of artists in any medium that are quite mediocre, yet > > > > singularly famous and successful due to ... [under debate] [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > When there is such a disparity between "quality" and "mediocrity" > who is really qualified to make the judgements? Everybody, of course. Art is in the eye of the beholder: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." James Joyce -- "Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man", as interpreted by Joseph Campbell: There are three steps to art: o The artist identifies the subject - conception o The artist delineates the subject - execution o The result causes "aesthetic arrest" in the viewer - exhibition If the result creates desire for the original subject then the result is not art but pornography. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > "Gregory W Blank" <gblank@despamit.net> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > If the result creates desire for the original subject > then the result is not art but pornography. This is much too literate. Can't we go back to calling Scarpetti an idiot? ;) Jeff > This is much too literate. Can't we go back to calling Scarpetti an > idiot? "Never argue with an idiot; people won't see any difference between you." Provb. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > If the result creates desire for the original subject > then the result is not art but pornography. Almost completely cynical, possibly true though, in some deep recess of the human awareness. But what about desire to possess the "art" which is a secondary copy, a shadow of the original... .........eeeew now thats really sick ;-) SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank > > "James Joyce" <ulysses@shakespeare.fr> wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > deep recess of the human awareness. But what about desire to > possess the "art" which is a secondary copy ... Fetishism. Art collectors are fetishists. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. > Fetishism. > Art collectors are fetishists. I hope your stating this tongue in cheek "admittedly I cannot tell", as I'd rather not insult all the fine people who have bought & buy my work :-) SignatureLF website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank "Gregory W Blank" <gblank@despamit.net> wrote > > Art collectors are fetishists. > > I hope your stating this tongue in cheek "admittedly I cannot tell", Tongue in cheek, foot in mouth: variations on a theme. > I'd rather not insult all the fine people who have bought & > buy my work :-) I am all in favor of art bought for its enjoyment. I am just as happy viewing a good reproduction as I am an original, and I believe that is the right attitude to take. If art is bought for being signed/original/early then I view it as fetishism. If art is bought for investment then I wish upon the purchaser the fleas of a thousand camels. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. |
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