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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2010The Curse of the Curl
Hello, all I have at last got collected courage to digitize some of my old films which were processed in cheap photolabs and probably dried in a hurry. I have been storing them in rolls and now, after cutting them into strips I have been struck by the extent of lateral curl. My scanner won't just focus on such films, unless I use special film holder which is less convenient and also crops the frame by about 2 mm in heght and width. Do you have any suggestions as to how to flatten and old and heavily curled film (meaning alteral curl, from edge to edge). Thank you in advance, Anton You might try higher humidity. It can take several days for the film to flatten out. The other approach is to weigh it down flat. Put the film strips between the pages of a book and stack more books on top. The best solution, vis-à-vis r.p.d, is a glass carrier, an enlarger and a wet darkroom and make prints ...  SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com > old films which were processed in cheap photolabs > ... storing them in rolls ... after cutting them into strips > ... lateral curl ... [can't scan] Thanks for the reply, Nicolas, > You might try higher humidity. It can take several days for > the film to flatten out. Yes. Right now I am keeping it in a spiral container, wherein the film remains laterally flat, in the bath with a hot shower on. I was going to keep it that way for a while (so it absorbs enough water) and then to start reducing the water flow, step by step, to let the film dry slowly and uniformly, until I switch the water off. Then, hopefully, it will be properly dried and flat... > The other approach is to weigh it down flat. Put the film > strips between the pages of a book and stack more books on > top. Just keeping them flat doen't help in my case. When I take the films back they get curl again as if nothing has been done. Some temperature and humidity conditions are probably also required. And can one keep a high humidity if the film is squeezed between pages of a book? But I do keep all my recent films under weight. In this regard, I got one more question: are transparent film sleevers suitable for long-term storage? Or do I need those made from acid-free papaer for that? > The best solution, vis-?-vis r.p.d, is a glass carrier, an > enlarger and a wet darkroom and make prints ... Yes, yes and yes. But I do want to scan them. And the colour process is way more difficult. Anton >> You might try higher humidity. It can take several days for >> the film to flatten out. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > switch the water off. Then, hopefully, it will be properly > dried and flat... After drying up the curl returned (( Will try keeping it in warm humid air for a longer time. Anton > Hello, all > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Thank you in advance, > Anton One thing that sometimes works is to rewind the film emulsion side out and store it that way for a while. I know you are talking about edge to edge curl but reverse winding will oppose that also and may apply more torque over a longer time than other tricks, especially merely flattening it out, which does not over curl it in the other direction. SignatureMichael If they are still in rolls, you can load them into your processing reels and immerse them in room temp distilled water & hang the rolls up to dry properly as you would films coming out of processing & washing for the first time. On 1/18/2010 5:39 AM Lew spake thus: > If they are still in rolls, you can load them into your processing > reels and immerse them in room temp distilled water & hang the rolls > up to dry properly as you would films coming out of processing & > washing for the first time. But even film that has been so hung and dried can have a curl. I just developed a roll of FP-4 last week that had a distinctive lateral (edge-to-edge) curl even after being hung up to dry with weights. SignatureYou were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" > On 1/18/2010 5:39 AM Lew spake thus: Yes, of course it can, especially if dried in a low humidity environment. You can't totally eliminate curl since the emulsion actually contracts as it dries whereas the support doesn't. There's also the possibility that the support is actually curled, but some of the list's greybeards will have to weigh in on this idea. > > If they are still in rolls, you can load them into your processing > > reels and immerse them in room temp distilled water & hang the rolls [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - a Usenet "apology" On 1/19/2010 6:37 AM Lew spake thus: > Yes, of course it can, especially if dried in a low humidity > environment. You can't totally eliminate curl since the emulsion > actually contracts as it dries whereas the support doesn't. There's > also the possibility that the support is actually curled, but some of > the list's greybeards will have to weigh in on this idea. Well, your suggestion is moot in any case, since the OP has already cut the film into strips. D "gray beard but no expert" N SignatureYou were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" > Well, your suggestion is moot in any case, since the OP has already cut > the film into strips. I can treat my strips as full-fledged rolls, why not? Writing just to inform you about my progress. I loaded a strip into a spiral holder (emulsion side out) and let it soak water for about ten minutes. Then I poured some water on the bottom of the container and put the spiral holder with my strip into it, and sealed it. So it will re- main in a very moist environment for a day. Then I will unseal it and wait futher for film to dry. On 1/20/2010 11:25 AM Anton Shepelev spake thus: > Writing just to inform you about my progress. I loaded a strip into a > spiral holder (emulsion side out) and let it soak water for about ten > minutes. Then I poured some water on the bottom of the container and > put the spiral holder with my strip into it, and sealed it. So it > will remain in a very moist environment for a day. Then I will > unseal it and wait futher for film to dry. One question: are you planning on drying the film *on the reel*? I wonder if you don't risk having the film stick to the reel this way. SignatureYou were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it. - a Usenet "apology" > > Writing just to inform you about my progress. I loaded a strip into a > > spiral holder (emulsion side out) and let it soak water for about ten [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > One question: are you planning on drying the film *on the reel*? I > wonder if you don't risk having the film stick to the reel this way. I have a holder similar to this one: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2857822614_c798f93847.jpg Should stick to the film... Anton > Should stick to the film... Typo here. I meant the film should not stick to such a holder. > Writing just to inform you about my progress. I > loaded a strip into a spiral holder (emulsion [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I will unseal it and wait futher for film to > dry. A follow-up: This procedure has helped eleminate longitudial curl, but not lateral curl ( I am going to follow Leo Trotsky's advice: "In order to straighten a stick one should bend it in the oppposite direction" Anton > Hello, all > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Thank you in advance, > Anton I swear that I've seen this problem addressed. IIRC the solution involves glycerin . I would also swear that I've seen possible solutions to this in, perhaps,: “The film Developing Cookbook” (1998) or“The Darkroom Cookbook” (2nd ed. 2000) I've looked through both & have not found a reference to this topic. In the mid '60s I used a quick drying solution that turned the film purple, but did not have an adverse affect on the printing. I think that it, in addition to quickly drying film, it flattened film, & caused the film to be an anti-static. The name that vaguely comes to mind is Edwal. I also vaguely remember that I used some sort of print flattener that may have used glycerin. Perhaps it was a home brew. I am fairly certain there is a chemical answer. However the side affects may not be worth it. Perhaps a really old publication like “Morgan & Morgan Photo Lab Index” (IIRC) might be of value. I wish I still had one. I truly wish I could be of more help, JD On Jan 16, 9:47 am, Anton <anton.txt@g[oogle}mail.com> wrote: > Hello, all > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thank you in advance, > Anton I swear that I've seen this problem addressed. IIRC the solution involves glycerin . I would also swear that I've seen possible solutions to this in, perhaps,: “The film Developing Cookbook” (1998) or“The Darkroom Cookbook” (2nd ed. 2000) I've looked through both & have not found a reference to this topic. In the mid '60s I used a quick drying solution that turned the film purple, but did not have an adverse affect on the printing. I think that it, in addition to quickly drying film, it flattened film, & caused the film to be an anti-static. The name that vaguely comes to mind is Edwal. I also vaguely remember that I used some sort of print flattener that may have used glycerin. Perhaps it was a home brew. I am fairly certain there is a chemical answer. However the side affects may not be worth it. Perhaps a really old publication like “Morgan & Morgan Photo Lab Index” (IIRC) might be of value. I wish I still had one. I truly wish I could be of more help, JD There was a sort of generic print flattener formula, about 60 ml of glycerine per liter of water. Soak the prints in this for about five minutes after washing. Then squeegee off the excess and dry. Hydroscopic flatteners like this are frowned on by conservators because they can promote the growth of mold on prints. I've used various print flatteners but not found any to be completely successful. I generally flatten prints using a dry mounting press. Those seem to stay flat permamently. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com On 2010-02-12 18:59:24 +0300, "Richard Knoppow" > There was a sort of generic print flattener formula, > about 60 ml of glycerine per liter of water. Soak the prints [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > flatten prints using a dry mounting press. Those seem to > stay flat permamently. Richard, I don't quite know what a mounting press is. Do you mean you keep your films flat under a constant heavy pressure? How strong is that pressure? What kind of sleeves/packaging do you use for films stored this way? Anton > On 2010-02-12 18:59:24 +0300, "Richard Knoppow" > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > How strong is that pressure? What kind of sleeves/packaging > do you use for films stored this way? For what it's worth, what has worked for me well through the years is a 50-50 mix of denatured alcohol and water. Take a damp cotton swab of this mixture and swipe it across the back of the print. Then place the print face down under some moderate weight overnight - a couple of books will do. In the morning, the prints are satisfactorily flat. |
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