Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2008
Aristo cold head
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john - 17 May 2008 03:17 GMT I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a Minnesota Winter).
Need something for the 8x10 Saltzman enlarger. On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12.
Seller wants $575 BIN. Here is the ad copy:
"This is the top-of-the-line 8x10 enlarger light source. Aristo T12 High Intensity Light Head is a two part unit -lamp housing and power pack- which contains a three prong thermo cord which operates the thermostatically controlled heater. This is plugged into any available 115V outlet. The lamp housing is 11-7/8" x 11-7/8" x 6-3/4" high."
Is that everything I need for the light source? Is there a particular "gotcha" to beware of?
I truly appreciate any help on this you all can offer.
John
Ken Nadvornick - 17 May 2008 06:07 GMT > I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a Minnesota > Winter). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I truly appreciate any help on this you all can offer. Hi John,
I don't have any personal experience with an Aristo T12, but perhaps Aristo's own product page for this unit will help you in determining if this unit is right for you...
http://www.aristogrid.com/t12.htm
Ken
john - 17 May 2008 13:21 GMT > I don't have any personal experience with an Aristo T12, but perhaps > Aristo's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.aristogrid.com/t12.htm OMG! I broke my own rule! I did not look it up. See, I thought it was an obsolete part. Thanks for the nudge, Ken!
John
Nicholas O. Lindan - 17 May 2008 13:14 GMT > On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to > beware of? You may need to stick to graded paper - it looks like the original 'actinic' tube. I had a head with this tube on a D-series Omega and it only wanted to produce grade 4+ VC prints. Some people say they can get by throwing a lot of yellow filtration into the system.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
Jean-David Beyer - 17 May 2008 13:36 GMT >> On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to >> beware of? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > VC prints. Some people say they can get by throwing > a lot of yellow filtration into the system. Aristo make a lot of different color tubes in their heads, each with a different characteristic curve. Some will work pretty well with about Y40 or so yellow filter in addition to your regular vc filters. Others will not.
You might find the following curves helpful:
http://www.aristogrid.com/spd.htm
They also make heads with a blue and a green tube so you can use VC paper more easily. I have an Aristo head (D2HI) that came with either a W45 or a V54 tube in it and that worked OK with a yellow filter, although I used graded paper at the time, so it did not matter much to me.
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john - 17 May 2008 13:37 GMT >> On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to >> beware of? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > VC prints. Some people say they can get by throwing > a lot of yellow filtration into the system. That is a critical issue. Thank you! Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?
Nicholas O. Lindan - 17 May 2008 14:20 GMT > Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a T-12]. > Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer? It shouldn't be.
There are two technologies timers use to control the lamp: electro-mechanical relays and solid-state silicon controlled rectifiers (SCRs).
Some electronic timers with relays get upset by the electrical interference generated when the contacts open with an inductive load. Current through an inductor wants to keep flowing and can't be stopped instantly. When relay contacts open the current creates a small arc across the contacts. A 'snubber circuit' across the contacts provides a path for this current and limits the arc. The f-Stop Timer uses a snubbed relay rated at 12 amps.
Since SCRs only turn off when the current goes to zero they have no trouble turning off inductive loads. OTOH, they can have problems with incandescent lamps. When a light bulb fails it often creates a dead short - the bright flash/pop - and the current through the short can destroy an SCR that is not adequately protected. They are also prey to high-voltage surges on the power lines. Snubber circuits are used with SCR's, but this time to absorb power line spikes when the SCR is off.
Timers that are properly designed and used will work without problems using either relays or SCRs.
High-power loads connected to a timer can require an external contactor to handle the current. Regular Aristo 4x5 heads are no problem for most any timer, including the Darkroom Automation f-Stop Timer.
I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12 and don't have any experience with this unit. My guess is it will work, but there is a chance the external 'solid state contactor' may be needed. In any case, plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause no damage to the timer.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
john - 17 May 2008 19:36 GMT >> Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a >> T-12]. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?
> [... snip good article ...] > I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause > no damage to the timer. Very good to know. Thank you.
So now I know the light source is clearly feasible. I just have to rip this check out of my tight fist and do it.
Jean-David Beyer - 18 May 2008 01:56 GMT >> Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a >> T-12]. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer? > > It shouldn't be. [snip]
> I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12 and don't have any > experience with this unit. My guess is it will work, but there is a > chance the external 'solid state contactor' may be needed. In any case, > plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause no damage to the > timer. I do not know the inductive characteristics of cold light heads either. If the load on the step up transformer were resistive, the load would be reflected back through the transformer and place a resistive load on the timer and the power company. Now a gas discharge tube is not resistive, but it probably has a resistor in series with it to reduce the peak current through the tube, so it may be more resistive than the tube itself.
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 18 May 2008 14:50 GMT > Now a gas discharge tube is not resistive A gas discharge tube has a negative resistance: If you increase the current it will lower the tube voltage. Modeling the lamp as a constant voltage, though, is good enough for most circuit analysis - the result is like driving current backwards through a battery, the voltage on the 'battery' is the arc voltage. In this model the lamp has zero resistance.
Since the lamp is pretty much a short circuit - zero resistance - there needs to be a 'ballast' in series with the lamp. The ballast can be a resistor, capacitor or inductor. The ballast impedance (the general term for something that opposes current) controls the lamp current.
In almost all equipment the ballast is either inductive or capacitive - called a reactive ballast. Resistor ballasts are sometimes found in very old equipment.
A reactive ballast will draw current 90 degrees out of phase with the power line. The power that it blocks is stored in either a magnetic field (inductor) or an electric field (capacitor) and given back to the power line in the next half cycle (a sloppy explanation, but probably good enough). A resistive ballast dissipates the power as heat and the power is gone forever.
The reactive ballast causes the system to draw extra current, though not power. This upsets the power company, means larger wiring and transformers are needed and raises the electric bill if your meter charges you for VARs. Large lamp power supplies include power-factor correction by adding compensating inductance to a capacitive ballast power supply or compensating capacitance to an inductive ballast power supply. This makes the lamp system draw the least amount of current and look like a resistor to the power line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
Putting a capacitor of the right value at the input to an Aristo lamp will make the system look like a regular old light bulb and there will be no inductive kick when it is turned off. However, because of the capacitor there will now be a current surge when the lamp is turned on. "Pay now or pay later."
These problems can be eliminated by connecting the power when the AC voltage is zero and disconnecting the power when the AC current is zero. This is what Aristo's 'solid state contactor' achieves.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
Richard Knoppow - 17 May 2008 22:44 GMT >I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a >Minnesota Winter). [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > John Others have answered your questions but contratulations on having this monster, an absolutely superb chunk of machinery. If you have the original shutter it will work well with the cold light head, they want to run continuously. The Arista has a heater in it to make the output more uniform when its used intermittantly but all gaseous discharge lamps increase output as they get hotter and most like to work on a continuous basis. The Saltzman shutter was made to work with the original mercury vapour lamp house which _had_ to run continuously. Saltzman had other lamphouses available but the Cooper-Hewitt tube type was the most common. Arista makes lamps which are compatible with variable contrast paper and can be refitted to older lamphouses. Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the bellows?
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
john - 17 May 2008 23:31 GMT (re: saltsman enlarger, Aristo T12 cold head)
> If you have the original shutter it will work well with the cold light > head, they want to run continuously. [... snip excellent information] No shutter came with it, but I have a 110V shutter from old long-roll school camera that will fit in front of either lens.
> Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the bellows? It has two, Richard, with the worm-drive rod between them, driven by a sintered bronze gear. I can make pictures to put online if you wish.
John
Richard Knoppow - 18 May 2008 15:33 GMT > (re: saltsman enlarger, Aristo T12 cold head) > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > John You have the more elabrorate version of the enlarger. The cheaper (but not cheap) one had the single support rod. This type was also used for aerial mapping and similar applicatons. It should have a focusing wheel to drive the bellows. Some of the larger models also had a small handwheel to operate the stop ring on the lens. Photographs would be interesting, I suspect many have never seen a Saltzman. I have an ancient Saltzman catalogue somewhere. I really must search it out.
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
john - 18 May 2008 15:47 GMT > "john" <x@x.net> wrote in message >>> Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the bellows? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > drive the bellows. Some of the larger models also had a small handwheel to > operate the stop ring on the lens. This one has two hand-wheels below the baseboard. One raises and lowers the head assembly using two chains that run up and down the inside of the main column, and the other wheel moves the bellows (focus). It has another pair of smaller hand-wheels on the horizontal supports (of the triangulated head support) to move the head to and fro. Today I am measuring those parts to see if I can add a belt or lightweight chain drive from one of the smaller wheels to drive the other: this would allow the operator to move to-fro using one wheel and obviate having the enlarger sit 30 inches from the wall. (Or a person could just disengage the worm-screw and push/pull by hand.)
I would very much like to work out a remove F-stop control. Will think about it.
There are mounts for other things such as the red filter rod which are empty right now. And an odd part that I cannot figure out. If I can get a digital snapshooter I will make some pictures and post the address.
Richard Knoppow - 18 May 2008 21:01 GMT >> "john" <x@x.net> wrote in message >>>> Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > cannot figure out. If I can get a digital snapshooter I > will make some pictures and post the address. The filter rod was also used to hold the shutter. The original was a two blade arrangement similar to a Packard shutter worked by a foot pedal. Not all had the iris control and I don't know the details of how it was coupled. One option was a condenser lamphouse with about 14" condensers and a mirror arrangment for the lamp. These had a focusing control for the lamp on the housing and its possible some had a remote handwheel for this also. I wish I could find my catalogue but it got boxed up. Time for some garage cleaning I'm afraid. You probably need a five foot ladder to go along with the enlarger. Saltzman also made a very heavy, geared, tilting baseboard for perspective correction. I've only seen pictures of these.
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
john - 18 May 2008 21:16 GMT > The filter rod was also used to hold the shutter. This one has provisions for two rods, each about 1" from the edge of the lens, extending down as far as one wants to make a rod. I'm a little concerned that shutter movement will cause vibration shake, however subtle, so I might mount the shutter from a sliding arrangement on the mail column, which just cannot possibly move. (750 pounds of it). Two more rods can be added with simple drilling and tapping. So much real-estate on this thing!
> You probably need a five foot ladder to go along with the enlarger. Heh! I have a vision of Watson on the ladder, "Mr. Holmes, is it correct now, Sir?"
> Saltzman also made a very heavy, geared, tilting baseboard for > perspective correction. I've only seen pictures of these. Over the years of building things like Harleys http://www.digoliardi.net/butcher.jpg , working on tractors, building cars and rebuilding VWs http://www.digoliardi.net/58.jpg , http://www.digoliardi.net/bug_n_brad.jpg has made me comfortable with making large things. A geared baseboard would be simple. But the demand for such a thing is a market of One!
john - 19 May 2008 01:57 GMT Richard, here a just a couple snapshots of two parts of the Saltzman. The upper section of the snapshot shows the front lower with the large two hand-wheels. Left is focus and right raises and lowers the whole head.
The close-up is the rear of one horizontal bar of the head section. Turning the wheel moves the head forward and back. The other is exactly the same. They were missing the gears, retainers, and spacers - everything but the wheels. I haven't got the connecting chain yet (#40 chain, I think ten-pitch). Got the hubs, spacers and gears at the tractor parts shop today.
It's hard to shoot snapshots in the shed. This was done with the doors open to the 6pm MinneSnowta May sun.
john - 19 May 2008 01:58 GMT Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg
David Nebenzahl - 19 May 2008 02:14 GMT On 5/18/2008 5:58 PM john spake thus:
> Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg OMG, I'm drooling; a real piece of Industrial Equipment. Should be a centerfold in some magazine. Great stuff!
Good luck, and please keep us informed of future developments.
 Signature The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Attributed to Winston Churchill
john - 19 May 2008 03:02 GMT > On 5/18/2008 5:58 PM john spake thus: > >> Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg > > OMG, I'm drooling; a real piece of Industrial Equipment. Should be a > centerfold in some magazine. Great stuff! One of my brothers, an expert in ancient warfare, alikened it to a seige machine. So if it doesn't work out...
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