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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2008

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Aristo cold head

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john - 17 May 2008 03:17 GMT
I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a Minnesota Winter).

Need something for the 8x10 Saltzman enlarger. On EvilBay there is an Aristo
T12.

Seller wants $575 BIN. Here is the ad copy:

"This is the top-of-the-line 8x10 enlarger light source.  Aristo T12 High
Intensity Light Head is a two part unit -lamp housing and power pack- which
contains a three prong thermo cord which operates the thermostatically
controlled heater. This is plugged into any available 115V outlet. The lamp
housing is 11-7/8" x 11-7/8" x 6-3/4" high."

Is that everything I need for the light source? Is there a particular
"gotcha" to beware of?

I truly appreciate any help on this you all can offer.

John
Ken Nadvornick - 17 May 2008 06:07 GMT
> I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a Minnesota
> Winter).
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> I truly appreciate any help on this you all can offer.

Hi John,

I don't have any personal experience with an Aristo T12, but perhaps Aristo's
own product page for this unit will help you in determining if this unit is
right for you...

http://www.aristogrid.com/t12.htm

Ken
john - 17 May 2008 13:21 GMT
> I don't have any personal experience with an Aristo T12, but perhaps
> Aristo's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.aristogrid.com/t12.htm

OMG! I broke my own rule! I did not look it up. See, I thought it was an
obsolete part.
Thanks for the nudge, Ken!

John
Nicholas O. Lindan - 17 May 2008 13:14 GMT
> On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to
> beware of?

You may need to stick to graded paper - it looks like the
original 'actinic' tube.  I had a head with this tube on
a D-series Omega and it only wanted to produce grade 4+
VC prints.  Some people say they can get by throwing
a lot of yellow filtration into the system.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Jean-David Beyer - 17 May 2008 13:36 GMT
>> On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to
>> beware of?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> VC prints.  Some people say they can get by throwing
> a lot of yellow filtration into the system.

Aristo make a lot of different color tubes in their heads, each with a
different characteristic curve. Some will work pretty well with about Y40 or
so yellow filter in addition to your regular vc filters. Others will not.

You might find the following curves helpful:

http://www.aristogrid.com/spd.htm

They also make heads with a blue and a green tube so you can use VC paper
more easily. I have an Aristo head (D2HI) that came with either a W45 or a
V54 tube in it and that worked OK with a yellow filter, although I used
graded paper at the time, so it did not matter much to me.

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john - 17 May 2008 13:37 GMT
>> On EvilBay there is an Aristo T12. .... Is there a particular "gotcha" to
>> beware of?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> VC prints.  Some people say they can get by throwing
> a lot of yellow filtration into the system.

That is a critical issue. Thank you!  Aristo also has a device to allow the
use of digital timers. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?
Nicholas O. Lindan - 17 May 2008 14:20 GMT
> Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a T-12].
> Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?

It shouldn't be.

There are two technologies timers use to control
the lamp: electro-mechanical relays and solid-state
silicon controlled rectifiers (SCRs).

Some electronic timers with relays get upset by the
electrical interference generated when the contacts
open with an inductive load.  Current through an
inductor wants to keep flowing and can't be stopped
instantly.  When relay contacts open the current
creates a small arc across the contacts. A 'snubber
circuit' across the contacts provides a path for this
current and limits the arc.  The f-Stop Timer uses
a snubbed relay rated at 12 amps.

Since SCRs only turn off when the current goes
to zero they have no trouble turning off inductive
loads.  OTOH, they can have problems with incandescent
lamps.  When a light bulb fails it often creates
a dead short - the bright flash/pop - and the current
through the short can destroy an SCR that is not
adequately protected.  They are also prey to
high-voltage surges on the power lines.  Snubber
circuits are used with SCR's, but this time to
absorb power line spikes when the SCR is off.

Timers that are properly designed and used will
work without problems using either relays or
SCRs.

High-power loads connected to a timer can require
an external contactor to handle the current.  Regular
Aristo 4x5 heads are no problem for most any timer,
including the Darkroom Automation f-Stop Timer.

I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12
and don't have any experience with this unit.  My guess
is it will work, but there is a chance the external
'solid state contactor' may be needed.  In any case,
plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause
no damage to the timer.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

john - 17 May 2008 19:36 GMT
>> Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a
>> T-12]. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?

> [... snip good article ...]
> I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause
> no damage to the timer.

Very good to know. Thank you.

So now I know the light source is clearly feasible. I just have to rip this
check out of my tight fist and do it.
Jean-David Beyer - 18 May 2008 01:56 GMT
>> Aristo also has a device to allow the use of digital timers [with a
>> T-12]. Is it necessary with the F-Stop timer?
>
> It shouldn't be.

[snip]
> I don't know the inductive characteristics of the T-12 and don't have any
> experience with this unit.  My guess is it will work, but there is a
> chance the external 'solid state contactor' may be needed.  In any case,
> plugging the head in and seeing if it works will cause no damage to the
> timer.

I do not know the inductive characteristics of cold light heads either.
If the load on the step up transformer were resistive, the load would be
reflected back through the transformer and place a resistive load on the
timer and the power company. Now a gas discharge tube is not resistive, but
it probably has a resistor in series with it to reduce the peak current
through the tube, so it may be more resistive than the tube itself.

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Nicholas O. Lindan - 18 May 2008 14:50 GMT
> Now a gas discharge tube is not resistive

A gas discharge tube has a negative resistance:  If you increase
the current it will lower the tube voltage.  Modeling the lamp
as a constant voltage, though, is good enough for most circuit
analysis - the result is like driving current backwards through
a battery, the voltage on the 'battery' is the arc voltage.
In this model the lamp has zero resistance.

Since the lamp is pretty much a short circuit - zero resistance
- there needs to be a 'ballast' in series with the lamp.  The
ballast can be a resistor, capacitor or inductor.  The ballast
impedance (the general term for something that opposes current)
controls the lamp current.

In almost all equipment the ballast is either inductive or
capacitive - called a reactive ballast.  Resistor ballasts are
sometimes found in very old equipment.

A reactive ballast will draw current 90 degrees out of phase
with the power line.  The power that it blocks is stored in
either a magnetic field (inductor) or an electric field (capacitor)
and given back to the power line in the next half cycle (a sloppy
explanation, but probably good enough).  A resistive ballast
dissipates the power as heat and the power is gone forever.

The reactive ballast causes the system to draw extra current,
though not power.  This upsets the power company, means larger
wiring and transformers are needed and raises the electric bill
if your meter charges you for VARs.  Large lamp power supplies
include power-factor correction by adding compensating inductance
to a capacitive ballast power supply or compensating capacitance to
an inductive ballast power supply.  This makes the lamp system
draw the least amount of current and look like a resistor to the
power line.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

Putting a capacitor of the right value at the input to an Aristo
lamp will make the system look like a regular old light bulb and
there will be no inductive kick when it is turned off.  However,
because of the capacitor there will now be a current surge when the
lamp is turned on.  "Pay now or pay later."

These problems can be eliminated by connecting the power when the
AC voltage is zero and disconnecting the power when the AC current
is zero.  This is what Aristo's 'solid state contactor' achieves.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Richard Knoppow - 17 May 2008 22:44 GMT
>I know nothing about cold heads (except being bald in a
>Minnesota Winter).
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> John

   Others have answered your questions but contratulations
on having this monster, an absolutely superb chunk of
machinery.
   If you have the original shutter it will work well with
the cold light head, they want to run continuously. The
Arista has a heater in it to make the output more uniform
when its used intermittantly but all gaseous discharge lamps
increase output as they get hotter and most like to work on
a continuous basis. The Saltzman shutter was made to work
with the original mercury vapour lamp house which _had_ to
run continuously. Saltzman had other lamphouses available
but the Cooper-Hewitt tube type was the most common.
   Arista makes lamps which are compatible with variable
contrast paper and can be refitted to older lamphouses.
   Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the
bellows?

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

john - 17 May 2008 23:31 GMT
(re: saltsman enlarger, Aristo T12 cold head)

>    If you have the original shutter it will work well with the cold light
> head, they want to run continuously. [... snip excellent information]

No shutter came with it, but I have a 110V shutter from old long-roll school
camera that will fit in front of either lens.

>    Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the bellows?

It has two, Richard, with the worm-drive rod between them, driven by a
sintered bronze gear. I can make pictures to put online if you wish.

John
Richard Knoppow - 18 May 2008 15:33 GMT
> (re: saltsman enlarger, Aristo T12 cold head)
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> John

    You have the more elabrorate version of the enlarger.
The cheaper (but not cheap) one had the single support rod.
This type was also used for aerial mapping and similar
applicatons. It should have a focusing wheel to drive the
bellows. Some of the larger models also had a small
handwheel to operate the stop ring on the lens.
    Photographs would be interesting, I suspect many have
never seen a Saltzman. I have an ancient Saltzman catalogue
somewhere. I really must search it out.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

john - 18 May 2008 15:47 GMT
> "john" <x@x.net> wrote in message
>>>    Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for the bellows?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> drive the bellows. Some of the larger models also had a small handwheel to
> operate the stop ring on the lens.

This one has two hand-wheels below the baseboard. One raises and lowers the
head assembly using two chains that run up and down the inside of the main
column, and the other wheel  moves the bellows (focus). It has another pair
of smaller hand-wheels on the horizontal supports (of the triangulated head
support) to move the head to and fro. Today I am measuring those parts to
see if I can add a belt or lightweight chain drive from one of the smaller
wheels to drive the other: this would allow the operator to move to-fro
using one wheel and obviate having the enlarger sit 30 inches from the wall.
(Or a person could just disengage the worm-screw and push/pull by hand.)

I would very much like to work out a remove F-stop control. Will think about
it.

There are mounts for other things such as the red filter rod which are empty
right now. And an odd part that I cannot figure out. If I can get a digital
snapshooter I will make some pictures and post the address.
Richard Knoppow - 18 May 2008 21:01 GMT
>> "john" <x@x.net> wrote in message
>>>>    Does your Saltzman have one or two support rods for
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> cannot figure out. If I can get a digital snapshooter I
> will make some pictures and post the address.

   The filter rod was also used to hold the shutter. The
original was a two blade arrangement similar to a Packard
shutter worked by a foot pedal. Not all had the iris control
and I don't know the details of how it was coupled.
   One option was a condenser lamphouse with about 14"
condensers and a mirror arrangment for the lamp. These had a
focusing control for the lamp on the housing and its
possible some had a remote handwheel for this also. I wish I
could find my catalogue but it got boxed up. Time for some
garage cleaning I'm afraid.
   You probably need a five foot ladder to go along with
the enlarger.
   Saltzman also made a very heavy, geared, tilting
baseboard for perspective correction. I've only seen
pictures of these.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

john - 18 May 2008 21:16 GMT
>    The filter rod was also used to hold the shutter.

This one has provisions for two rods, each about 1" from the edge of the
lens, extending down as far as one wants to make a rod. I'm a little
concerned that shutter movement will cause vibration shake, however subtle,
so I might mount the shutter from a sliding arrangement on the mail column,
which just cannot possibly move. (750 pounds of it). Two more rods can be
added with simple drilling and tapping. So much real-estate on this thing!

>    You probably need a five foot ladder to go along with the enlarger.

Heh! I have a vision of Watson on the ladder, "Mr. Holmes, is it correct
now, Sir?"

>    Saltzman also made a very heavy, geared, tilting baseboard for
> perspective correction. I've only seen pictures of these.

Over the years of building things like Harleys
http://www.digoliardi.net/butcher.jpg , working on tractors, building cars
and rebuilding VWs http://www.digoliardi.net/58.jpg  ,
http://www.digoliardi.net/bug_n_brad.jpg has made me comfortable with making
large things. A geared baseboard would be simple. But the demand for such a
thing is a market of One!
john - 19 May 2008 01:57 GMT
Richard, here a just a couple snapshots of two parts of the Saltzman. The
upper section of the snapshot shows the front lower with the large two
hand-wheels. Left is focus and right raises and lowers the whole head.

The close-up is the rear of one horizontal bar of the head section. Turning
the wheel moves the head forward and back. The other is exactly the same.
They were missing the gears, retainers, and spacers - everything but the
wheels. I haven't got the connecting chain yet (#40 chain, I think
ten-pitch). Got the hubs, spacers and gears at the tractor parts shop today.

It's hard to shoot snapshots in the shed. This was done with the doors open
to the 6pm MinneSnowta May sun.
john - 19 May 2008 01:58 GMT
Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg
David Nebenzahl - 19 May 2008 02:14 GMT
On 5/18/2008 5:58 PM john spake thus:

> Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg

OMG, I'm drooling; a real piece of Industrial Equipment. Should be a
centerfold in some magazine. Great stuff!

Good luck, and please keep us informed of future developments.

Signature

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

john - 19 May 2008 03:02 GMT
> On 5/18/2008 5:58 PM john spake thus:
>
>> Duh! I forgot the link: http://www.digoliardi.net/salt1.jpg
>
> OMG, I'm drooling; a real piece of Industrial Equipment. Should be a
> centerfold in some magazine. Great stuff!

One of my brothers, an expert in ancient warfare, alikened it to a seige
machine. So if it doesn't work out...
 
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