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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / August 2007

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Safelights and paper developer?

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 20 Aug 2007 09:14 GMT
I need to outfit my darkroom with safelights. I currently have
red safelights, which I am not fond of, but seems to be all
that I can find here. :-(

Someone gave me a Kodak safelight (large cone-shaped thing with
a 15 watt bulb in it) complete with an OA and an OC filter.
It had not been used in many years, it still had a U.S. plug
on it and a 120 volt bulb in it.

I have yet to try to buy any paper, what I have is several
years out of date Ilford Multigrade and Agfa Brovira. From
what I have read, I probably will only be able to buy Ilford
paper.

Agfa and Kodak are "out of the game" and the more obscure
papers have to be mail ordered from the U.S. or Germany and
have little chance of surviving the trip, except when shipped
via air express, which would be about $100 a box.

I therefore might as well confine my questions to Ilford Multigrade
paper. Will it work properly with a red safelight? Which filter
(OA/OC) should I use in the Kodak?

Any recemondations for a commonly available liquid paper developer?
I plan to make up a tray full of developer and stop bath and throw them
out when done. Fixer will probably be old, but still useable, film fixer.
(should I dilute the fixer?)

Thanks, Geoff.

Signature

Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Richard Knoppow - 21 Aug 2007 00:08 GMT
>I need to outfit my darkroom with safelights. I currently
>have
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Thanks, Geoff.

     Outdated paper is likely to be fogged. While the use
of an anti-fog agent can same some of it its best just to
avoid it.
     The red safelights are fine for both graded and
variable contrast papers but are somewhat unpleasant to work
under. The recommended safelight filter is the Kodak OC. Do
NOT use an OA, this is an older type of filter intended for
graded paper and will fog VC paper. The Ilford equivalent
filter is the No.905.
     These filters are intended to pass as much visible
light as possible so that the darkroom is easy to work in
without passing light the paper is sensitive to. However,
the red safelights quite satisfactory from the fogging
standpoint.
     Safelight filters can fade so should be tested. Both
Kodak and Ilford have test procedures on their web sites,
the Kodak test can be found by entering K-4 in the search
engine on their web site. Because the combination of
exposure to the safelight and to the enlarger results in
greater sensitivity to fogging a simple exposure to the
safelight will not tell you if its safe.
     The Kodak bee-hive safelight is a very common item as
are the filters for it. You should be able to find more of
them at pretty low cost.
     There is really very little difference among paper
developers. I would use whatever is conveniently available
to you.
     The requirements for fixing paper are more stringent
than those for film. Do NOT use partially exhausted fixer.
     A better method is to use a two bath fixing system.
The second bath remains relatively fresh and will clean up
after the first bath. When the first bath becomes exhausted
enough its tossed and the second bath moved up, the second
bath being replaced by a fresh bath. The capacity of this
system to fix paper completely is four to ten times the
capacity of a single bath. This system should also be used
for film.
     While the Iodide leached out of film tends to slow
down fixing it has relatively little effect on a two bath
system and relatively little effect of Ammonium Thiosulfate
(Rapid) fixer. So, if you are going to use the same fixer
for both film and paper rapid fixer is preferred.
     For paper you can use the fixer at film strength, but
be careful of excessive fixing times because acid rapid
fixer can bleach the image a little.
     There are a couple of ways to test fixing baths for
exhaustion. The best is to check periodically for clearing
time. This is the time it takes for the emulsion to become
completely clear in the bath. It is very hard to determine
this for paper but it can be seen easily for film. I suggest
using a scrap of film to test the fresh bath and test
periodically using a scrap of the same film. When the
clearing time doubles toss the fixer. This is OK for the
first bath of a two bath system but for a single bath will
result in excessively exhausted fixer. Soak the film for a
couple of minutes before testing because wet film fixes at a
different rate than dry film.
    Another test is to use a solution of Potassium Iodide.
This will produce a cloud of Silver Iodide in exhausted
fixing bath. Kodak gives the formula and method in their
darkroom handbook. Fixer test solutions are also available
packaged.
    Total fixing time should be about double the clearing
time. For the two bath system fix for half the time in each
bath.
    A further economy is to use a sulfite wash aid such as
Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent. This does several things but
among them is the ability to make some otherwise bound up
silver complexes soluble so it has the effect of partially
compensating for inadequate fixing.  It is also a definite
economy where water is at a premium.
    Standard Acetic acid stop bath is fine. If you use
rapid fixer avoid the use of Citric acid stop bath, such as
Ilfords, because the combination of Citric acid with the
Ammonium Thiosulfate fixer makes a pretty good bleach.
    The cheapest way to make up stop bath is to buy Glacial
Acetic (concentrated acetic) acid and dilute it to 28%
working solution. This is then used to make up the usual
1.5% stop bath. A liter of Glacial will make many gallons of
stop bath. Don't try to save the stop bath, just toss it.
    Despite the current trend to eliminate stop baths they
serve a useful purpose in preventing dichroic fog in the
fixing bath. A water rinse will work but should be thorough,
at least 30 seconds to one minute in water kept pretty
fresh. Eliminating the stop bath really has no advantage
despite some pretty strong fans of the method.
    Ilford makes good paper and, at the moment, seems to be
about the only paper manufacturer with good quality control.
IMO, most of the small manufacturers are using very old
technology and there are many reports of inconsistent
results. Fuji also makes good paper but does not sell it
outside of Japan.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 21 Aug 2007 07:39 GMT
Thanks for the wonderful answer. It will be a great help.

>       Outdated paper is likely to be fogged. While the use
> of an anti-fog agent can same some of it its best just to
> avoid it.

I agree, but it's what I have. :-)

I'll have to see if I can get any paper locally. Darkroom stuff does
not sell well here.

Up until some time in the late 1980's photgraphic equipment (and personal
computers) were taxed at about 250% (two and a half times the price
in taxes), when I moved here in 1996, it had been reduced to 140%. So
very few things were sold here.

Schools had darkrooms and some imegrants from rich countries, but
most, like me had to sell what we had as we could not afford to
buy it again for the tax people.

In the last few years, it has been dropped to simply VAT (15.5%), which makes
it more affordable. However since 9/11 the chance of shipping anything by
air without it being X-Rayed is pretty slim. Surface shipping is safer,
but the temperatures vary from well bellow freezing in the winter to
over 120F in the summer.

In the last few months, the USPS has revised their prices upward, and a
friend sent me a small vaccuum sealing device she bought at a yard sale
for $4. It was about the size of 100 sheet photo paper box, 4x11 inches.
The shipping was $35, without tracking, guarentee of delivery or
insurance.

Freestyle, for example ships only FedEX and therefore a package of 8x10
paper would cost $100 to ship.

>       The red safelights are fine for both graded and
> variable contrast papers but are somewhat unpleasant to work
> under. The recommended safelight filter is the Kodak OC. Do
> NOT use an OA, this is an older type of filter intended for
> graded paper and will fog VC paper. The Ilford equivalent
> filter is the No.905.

Ok, thanks. I'll stick to the OC. Now to find a 15 watt bulb. I looked
through Home Center and the smallest bulb they had was 25 watts. Smaller
bulbs have been replaced with miniflourescent bulbs. I'll have to find
a lighting store.

>       These filters are intended to pass as much visible
> light as possible so that the darkroom is easy to work in
> without passing light the paper is sensitive to. However,
> the red safelights quite satisfactory from the fogging
> standpoint.

That's good to know. I have two safelights that are red. They are very
dim, and use 7.5 watt night light bulbs, which are easily found, and I
bought a large supply. :-)

I also have two Phillips safe light bulbs, which are like regular
red light bulbs, but coated with a safelight filter. One I bought,
which cost as much as the small safelights and the other was a gift.

I know this is rambling, but I expect that in 10 years, the situation
in the U.S. will be the same. :-(

>       Safelight filters can fade so should be tested. Both
> Kodak and Ilford have test procedures on their web sites,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> greater sensitivity to fogging a simple exposure to the
> safelight will not tell you if its safe.

This is really a gem. I was bought up on the quarter on the paper
safelight test. I'll look for it right away.

>       The Kodak bee-hive safelight is a very common item as
> are the filters for it. You should be able to find more of
> them at pretty low cost.

It's the only one I've seen here. It was given to me unmodified
as it came from the U.S. complete with a 120 volt bulb in it.
I would love to find more, but don't have much hope.

>       There is really very little difference among paper
> developers. I would use whatever is conveniently available
> to you.

Thanks, I appreiciate that information. I was a big dektol
user and have long since forgotten what liquid I used. :-)

>       The requirements for fixing paper are more stringent
> than those for film. Do NOT use partially exhausted fixer.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> capacity of a single bath. This system should also be used
> for film.

Ok, thanks.

>       While the Iodide leached out of film tends to slow
> down fixing it has relatively little effect on a two bath
> system and relatively little effect of Ammonium Thiosulfate
> (Rapid) fixer. So, if you are going to use the same fixer
> for both film and paper rapid fixer is preferred.

Ok, that's what I use.

>       For paper you can use the fixer at film strength, but
> be careful of excessive fixing times because acid rapid
> fixer can bleach the image a little.

I did not plan to, that's why I said I would dilute it. I can
make fresh and keep it seperate.

>       There are a couple of ways to test fixing baths for
> exhaustion. The best is to check periodically for clearing
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> couple of minutes before testing because wet film fixes at a
> different rate than dry film.

Ok, thanks,

>      Another test is to use a solution of Potassium Iodide.
> This will produce a cloud of Silver Iodide in exhausted
> fixing bath. Kodak gives the formula and method in their
> darkroom handbook. Fixer test solutions are also available
> packaged.

I have some, but I know it is at least 15 years old. Does it go bad?

>      Total fixing time should be about double the clearing
> time. For the two bath system fix for half the time in each
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> compensating for inadequate fixing.  It is also a definite
> economy where water is at a premium.

I'm in the desert. :-) Like L.A., you might not believe it if you
see it, but water is at a premium here. I am using some sort of
wash aid, but Kodak chemicals were hard to find here and are probably
gone.

>      Standard Acetic acid stop bath is fine. If you use
> rapid fixer avoid the use of Citric acid stop bath, such as
> Ilfords, because the combination of Citric acid with the
> Ammonium Thiosulfate fixer makes a pretty good bleach.

oops. That's what I have.

>      The cheapest way to make up stop bath is to buy Glacial
> Acetic (concentrated acetic) acid and dilute it to 28%
> working solution. This is then used to make up the usual
> 1.5% stop bath. A liter of Glacial will make many gallons of
> stop bath. Don't try to save the stop bath, just toss it.

I used to do that in the U.S. I have never seen it here.

>      Ilford makes good paper and, at the moment, seems to be
> about the only paper manufacturer with good quality control.
> IMO, most of the small manufacturers are using very old
> technology and there are many reports of inconsistent
> results. Fuji also makes good paper but does not sell it
> outside of Japan.

Thanks for everything, I'll report back. I hope I can find paper,
I've already bought out local supplies of bulk 35mm film, plastic
reloadable casettes, HC-110 and Rodinal.

When asked if more (developer) was on the way, a local store said yes.
which I wonder because the Rodinal was the old Agfa version. Another
store in Tel Aviv danced around the issue, but gave the impression I got
the last of their chemicals. The HC-110 I bought from them had gone bad with
age (something I thought almost impossible for a factory sealed bottle).

Geoff.

Signature

Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Claudio Bonavolta - 21 Aug 2007 13:33 GMT
<snip>
> Freestyle, for example ships only FedEX and therefore a package of 8x10
> paper would cost $100 to ship.

At B&H, UPS shipment is cheaper than USPS and service is much better
(tracking #, fast delivery, etc ...).
Multigrade, fiber papers are here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/3results/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=390
5&sb=bs%2Cupper%28ds%29&sq=asc


I ordered once a bunch of electron tubes from New-York through USPS.
I received them with "some" delay as they went through South Africa
before arriving in Europe.
I suppose someone mixed Swaziland and Switzerland, phonetically close
but just on two different continents ...

> I also have two Phillips safe light bulbs, which are like regular
> red light bulbs, but coated with a safelight filter. One I bought,
> which cost as much as the small safelights and the other was a gift.

They work fine, I use some of them together with their amber
counterparts.
But, as usual, test your safelight to be sure it is safe ...

> I'm in the desert. :-) Like L.A., you might not believe it if you
> see it, but water is at a premium here. I am using some sort of
> wash aid, but Kodak chemicals were hard to find here and are probably
> gone.

As washaid, I just use a plain 2% sodium sulfite solution I through at
the end of the session.
This is a very cheap chemical.
Or you may go the formula Richard gave some times ago which is more or
less similar to Kodak's one.

> Thanks for everything, I'll report back. I hope I can find paper,
> I've already bought out local supplies of bulk 35mm film, plastic
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the last of their chemicals. The HC-110 I bought from them had gone bad with
> age (something I thought almost impossible for a factory sealed bottle).

Buy also your chemicals from one of the US large distributors but,
because of air shipments regulations, you're usually limited to dry
chemicals (Dektol, Xtol, etc ...).
In your situation, I would try to find a local supplier of raw
chemicals and mix my own, it may be easier.

> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
> IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
> Visit my 'blog athttp://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Good luck,
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
Andrew Price - 21 Aug 2007 20:12 GMT
[---]

>In your situation, I would try to find a local supplier of raw
>chemicals and mix my own, it may be easier.

Good suggestion.  See also Lloyd Erlick's article :

<http://www.heylloyd.com/technicl/bulkchem.htm>

on this subject.  The other articles on his site are also well worth
reading.
Claudio Bonavolta - 22 Aug 2007 11:00 GMT
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 05:33:26 -0700, Claudio Bonavolta
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> on this subject.  The other articles on his site are also well worth
> reading.

Some more comments as Geoff seems to need a post-nuclear war survival
guide ...

One more option for the safelights: to make my computers screens
inactinic when working in my darkroom I cover the screens with red
plastic film called Rubylith. This is not just a red film as it is
intended for masking use in graphic arts and printers. It is very
efficient and cheap, the only drawback is that it is becoming rare as
most of graphic work has gone digital.
There is also an amber version called Amberlith.

Regarding self-made chemistry, a few other pointers:
- Steve Anchell's pair of books (meant to be practical cookbooks and
not scientific litterature), check with Amazon.
- I put a copy of Kodak's J-1 publication which contains all basic
formulas (and more) here (20MB pdf file):
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/files/Kodak%20j-1.pdf
- Photo Formulary have also published a bunch of formulas (under
Technical Infos):
http://www.photoformulary.com
- The same with Digital Truth together with a database of development
times: http://www.digitaltruth.com
- Ryuji Suzuki's website (seems down, hopefully temporarily):
http://www.silvergrain.org
- http://www.jackspcs.com
- and many other websites ...

If Geoff stays with classic formulas like D-76 and D-72 (Dektol's
public formula), the basic ingredients are similar and the number of
raw chemicals could remain limited.
If he prefers more environmentally-friendly formulas then those based
on ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) are available (Mytol, E-72, Ryuji's
formulas, etc ...).

Regarding the raw chemicals in Israel, I did a quick search and found
following website that may be a good start: http://dir.chemnet.com/Regional/Israel/
One of the links points to an university, that could be a good idea to
ask the chemistry department of a university what suppliers they use.

So, good luck !
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 22 Aug 2007 11:39 GMT
> Some more comments as Geoff seems to need a post-nuclear war survival
> guide ...

I don't think so. It may seem that way, but it's a more of a combination
of the effects of digital photography and the movement of research
to the China and India, combined with post 9/11 paranoia.

I can already see the effects here, some common household chemicals
such as ammonia are banned. I also see that in the U.S. people who
buy scales and organic solvents are suspected of running meth labs,
or a bomb factory.

When I was a child growing up in Philly, I had a microscope and a
small home chemical lab. By 1970 the organic solvents I used
e.g. xylene and acetone, were banned and all sorts of chemicals
were no longer sold. At one time you could buy them in a rack in
a hobby shop, like spices at a supermarket, but they were gone.

> One more option for the safelights: to make my computers screens
> inactinic when working in my darkroom I cover the screens with red
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> most of graphic work has gone digital.
> There is also an amber version called Amberlith.

I'll have to look for it. It should be easy to find if there are
any graphic arts companies left. My guess is that they have all gone
digital, it's obvious if you open any newspaper that everything is
done with photoshop.


> Regarding self-made chemistry, a few other pointers:
> - Steve Anchell's pair of books (meant to be practical cookbooks and
> not scientific litterature), check with Amazon.
> - I put a copy of Kodak's J-1 publication which contains all basic
> formulas (and more) here (20MB pdf file):
> http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/files/Kodak%20j-1.pdf

Downloading it now, thanks.

> Regarding the raw chemicals in Israel, I did a quick search and found
> following website that may be a good start: http://dir.chemnet.com/Regional/Israel/
> One of the links points to an university, that could be a good idea to
> ask the chemistry department of a university what suppliers they use.

The university is Hebrew University, where I got my start
in Israel in their computer science department. I'll ask them if
they can help.

Thanks for all your help,

Geoff.

Signature

Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Claudio Bonavolta - 22 Aug 2007 14:26 GMT
> > Some more comments as Geoff seems to need a post-nuclear war survival
> > guide ...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> were no longer sold. At one time you could buy them in a rack in
> a hobby shop, like spices at a supermarket, but they were gone.

Don't worry this was just a joke ...
Fortunately here in Europe (except UK maybe) we feel much less the
9/11 effects.
By the way, chemicals were already less widely available before due to
safety regulations and another problem is that many chemical companies
ask you to buy quantities way to large for the simple hobbyist.

> > One more option for the safelights: to make my computers screens
> > inactinic when working in my darkroom I cover the screens with red
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> digital, it's obvious if you open any newspaper that everything is
> done with photoshop.

A link to the manufacturer: http://www.ulano.com
They have a link to company Arta Graphics being their distributor for
Mid-East region:
http://www.arta-israel.co.il/sg_product~7010~13~54.htm
But I can't read Hebrew ...

Good luck,
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
Andrew Price - 22 Aug 2007 21:19 GMT
>Don't worry this was just a joke ...
>Fortunately here in Europe (except UK maybe) we feel much less the
>9/11 effects.

And the UK has no one but itself to blame for that ...
Nicholas O. Lindan - 22 Aug 2007 15:34 GMT
> Rubylith. This is not just a red film as it is
> intended for masking use in graphic arts and
> printers. It is very efficient and cheap, the
> only drawback is that it is becoming rare as
> most of graphic work has gone digital.

Pre-press equipment and supplies can often be found
at outfits that supply the silk-screening industry.

A good art-supplies store will often carry rubylith
for poster silk-screening.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Rod Smith - 21 Aug 2007 16:29 GMT
> Freestyle, for example ships only FedEX and therefore a package of 8x10
> paper would cost $100 to ship.

When did you check their prices? I recall that Freestyle added some
overseas shipping options a few months ago, with the goal of making
themselves more affordable for non-US customers. If you did your checks a
while back, it could be you should check again.

A few other options include B&H (in the US, http://www.bhphotovideo.com),
Fotoimpex (in Germany, http://www.fotoimpex.de), and Megaperls (in Japan,
http://www.unicircuits.com/shop/index.php). I haven't checked overseas
shipping prices (or even product prices) at most of these places; I just
happen to know about them and I believe they all do ship internationally,
so they're worth checking out.

>>       The red safelights are fine for both graded and
>> variable contrast papers but are somewhat unpleasant to work
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> bulbs have been replaced with miniflourescent bulbs. I'll have to find
> a lighting store.

You might see if you can find a red LED bulb. I use one of these as one of
my two safelights:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/E27-W24.htm

I've heard some people use the amber ones, too, but I'm not sure they'd be
safe with VC paper.

> That's good to know. I have two safelights that are red. They are very
> dim, and use 7.5 watt night light bulbs, which are easily found, and I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> red light bulbs, but coated with a safelight filter. One I bought,
> which cost as much as the small safelights and the other was a gift.

My second safelight is a coated low-wattage incandescent bulb, similar to
what you describe. I bought it from B&H or Freestyle (I don't recall
which). Coated red bulbs sold for non-photographic uses might or might not
be safe; the coating might be incomplete or it might pass light outside of
the safe range. If you've got no other choice you might as well try one,
but I certainly wouldn't assume it's safe without testing.

Oh, I've heard of people using red Christmas tree lights as safelights.
I'd imagine those are rarer in Israel than in the US, though. ;-)

>>       There is really very little difference among paper
>> developers. I would use whatever is conveniently available
>> to you.
>
> Thanks, I appreiciate that information. I was a big dektol
> user and have long since forgotten what liquid I used. :-)
...
> When asked if more (developer) was on the way, a local store said yes.
> which I wonder because the Rodinal was the old Agfa version.

FWIW, I've heard that Rodinal makes a decent paper developer, but I've
never tried it myself. (It must be used at greater concentration than with
film -- around 1+10 dilution, IIRC.) There's also a mix-it-yourself
version of Rodinal called paRodinal; see
http://silent1.home.netcom.com/Photography/Dilutions%20and%20Times.html
(it's one of several formulas there). The advantage of paRodinal is that
it's easy to make from acetaminophen (Tylenol) tablets, sodium sulfite,
and sodium hydroxide (lye). When mixed, the acetaminophen is chemically
converted into p-aminophenol, the developing agent in Rodinal. Given what
you've said, you might find it easier to track down these ingredients than
to track down a packaged commercial developer.

For that matter, you could try to get more traditional photographic raw
ingredients, such as phenidone, metol, etc. You could then mix a wide
variety of developers. I believe that JD Photochem
(http://www.jdphotochem.com) in Canada ships internationally. Even if
shipping charges are ridiculous, chances are you'll be able to find some
ingredients locally, so the total cost on a per-liter basis of developer
should be reasonable. If you don't know Thing One about mixing your own
chemicals, check out a few resources:

- Steve Anchell's _The Darkroom Cookbook, 2nd Edition_, ISBN 0240804236
- Steve Anchell and Bill Troop's _The Film Developing Cookbook_, ISBN
 0240802772
- http://www.jackspcs.com
- http://www.digitaltruth.com/data.html
- http://www.photosensitive.ca/wp/easy-film-developers/

Signature

Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 21 Aug 2007 21:19 GMT
Thanks,

> When did you check their prices? I recall that Freestyle added some
> overseas shipping options a few months ago, with the goal of making
> themselves more affordable for non-US customers. If you did your checks a
> while back, it could be you should check again.

It was a year ago, I should check again.

> You might see if you can find a red LED bulb. I use one of these as one of
> my two safelights:
>
> http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/E27-W24.htm

I wonder if I can just make one from red LED's? I have many of them. It won't
look as nice, and I'll probably just run it off of a "wall wart".

> My second safelight is a coated low-wattage incandescent bulb, similar to
> what you describe. I bought it from B&H or Freestyle (I don't recall
> which). Coated red bulbs sold for non-photographic uses might or might not
> be safe; the coating might be incomplete or it might pass light outside of
> the safe range. If you've got no other choice you might as well try one,
> but I certainly wouldn't assume it's safe without testing.

I expect not. When I was in high school a camera store opened nearby
(but not near enough for me to use) with a rental darkroom. It had
flourescent lights with the tubes in red sleeves. I wonder if I
could get one of those, but the room may be too small.

I've gotten far enough to test things and found that my "darkroom" was
too bightly lit at night to be of any use. I covered the windows with
aluminum foil (just the thing for low price, easy availabilty, and sloppy
workers) and tried it out tonight. It's dark enough to work at night.
It's actually two rooms, a larger area with a clothes dryer in it, which
I am using as an enlarging table, and a small powder room with a counter,
sink and toilet as the wet room.

I'm safe until the rainy season which starts around November first,
then my wife will actually use the dryer for its intended purpose.

I tried the Kodak safelight with a 10 watt bulb in it and it lit up
the powder room well enough to work. I could not find any 15 watt bulbs,
and on the third try, the local hardware store produced some 5-10 watt
(I wish they'd make up their mind) bulbs. I'll have to measure their
current draw.

I'll probably use it for the wet room, and the red lights for the enlarging
area. Now I have to figure out how to set up a switching arangment so
that they go off when the enlarger goes on. I don't have a timer, but
I can count to 10 and if I concentrate 15 :-)


> Oh, I've heard of people using red Christmas tree lights as safelights.
> I'd imagine those are rarer in Israel than in the US, though. ;-)

They show up in the fall for Sukkot (the feast of Tabernacles), where
everyone builds little huts and eats in them for a week commemerating
the annual census and harvest where everyone traveled to Jerusalem
and lived in huts for a week. We decorate them and eat in them,
some people sleep in them.

By Christmas time, they disapear from the stores. :-)

> FWIW, I've heard that Rodinal makes a decent paper developer, but I've
> never tried it myself. (It must be used at greater concentration than with
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> you've said, you might find it easier to track down these ingredients than
> to track down a packaged commercial developer.

I tried that. I found that the local tylenol equivalent was expensive,
pure sodium hydroxide was available only from a soap maker (who was
willing to sell me 250 grams at a time), but sulfite was impossible
to find. None of the camera stores carried it, and I could not locate
a pool supply. Private pools are rare here.


> For that matter, you could try to get more traditional photographic raw
> ingredients, such as phenidone, metol, etc. You could then mix a wide
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> should be reasonable. If you don't know Thing One about mixing your own
> chemicals, check out a few resources:

I guess I could try that, I used to do it a long time ago. Thanks.
Eventually it may not be optional, as every day goes by the supply
of ready made stuff shrinks.

Thanks for all the advice. I appriciate it.

Geoff.

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Ken Hart - 22 Aug 2007 06:39 GMT
> I'm safe until the rainy season which starts around November first,
> then my wife will actually use the dryer for its intended purpose.

Watch out for dryer lint!

> I tried the Kodak safelight with a 10 watt bulb in it and it lit up
> the powder room well enough to work. I could not find any 15 watt bulbs,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> that they go off when the enlarger goes on. I don't have a timer, but
> I can count to 10 and if I concentrate 15 :-)

Disclaimer: (a) I'm not a licensed electrician, nor do I play one on TV; (b)
I have no idea what kind of electrical systems/parts are available in
Israel.

The wall switches that are used for three-way light circuits (such as the
light in a stairway where there is a switch downstairs and another upstairs
to control one light) are single-pole-double-throw switches. They have three
connections: have the power coming in on the 'common', and out on one of the
two others depending on the position of the switch. One position of the
switch supplies power to the safelight, the other position supplies power to
the enlarger.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 22 Aug 2007 09:39 GMT
> The wall switches that are used for three-way light circuits (such as the
> light in a stairway where there is a switch downstairs and another upstairs
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> switch supplies power to the safelight, the other position supplies power to
> the enlarger.

Thanks, I have never seen them here. I'll have to ask. Instead of using
3 way light switches, hallways have push button start timers. They are
scientificly designed through years of measurement and careful observation
to turn off the light just before you get your door open and therefore
plunge you into darkness. :-)

Geoff.

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Rod Smith - 23 Aug 2007 18:02 GMT
> > You might see if you can find a red LED bulb. I use one of these as one of
>> my two safelights:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I wonder if I can just make one from red LED's? I have many of them. It won't
> look as nice, and I'll probably just run it off of a "wall wart".

That ought to work, although with the usual caveat that you should do
safelight tests. In fact, if you spread them out you might end up with
more even illumination than you'd get from a single bulb.

> It's actually two rooms, a larger area with a clothes dryer in it, which
> I am using as an enlarging table, and a small powder room with a counter,
> sink and toilet as the wet room.

I'm using a broken washing machine as a table in my darkroom. My
enlarger's control unit, which is separate from the enlarger's
base/column/head assembly, sits on the washing machine.

> I'll probably use it for the wet room, and the red lights for the enlarging
> area. Now I have to figure out how to set up a switching arangment so
> that they go off when the enlarger goes on. I don't have a timer, but
> I can count to 10 and if I concentrate 15 :-)

I've never bothered with this. My typical exposure times are in the 10-30
second range, which shouldn't cause fogging unless the safelights are very
close to being unsafe to begin with.

>> There's also a mix-it-yourself
>> version of Rodinal called paRodinal; see
>> http://silent1.home.netcom.com/Photography/Dilutions%20and%20Times.html
...
> I tried that. I found that the local tylenol equivalent was expensive,
> pure sodium hydroxide was available only from a soap maker (who was
> willing to sell me 250 grams at a time), but sulfite was impossible
> to find. None of the camera stores carried it, and I could not locate
> a pool supply. Private pools are rare here.

I believe that sodium sulfite is used in wine production, so you might
check if there are any stores that specialize in such things. Certainly
it's a common enough chemical industrially; the tricky part would be
locating somebody who'd be willing to sell small quantities to an
individual.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 21 Aug 2007 21:39 GMT
> When did you check their prices? I recall that Freestyle added some
> overseas shipping options a few months ago, with the goal of making
> themselves more affordable for non-US customers. If you did your checks a
> while back, it could be you should check again.

The option they added was USPS international priority mail. It was
reasonably priced up until May, when the rates were restructured.

Now it's $20 for the first pound and $4 for each pound after that
including packaging. There is a special box rate (you use their box),
which may or may not fit and Freestyle is under no obligation to
use it. It's about $35 for up to 20 pounds.

I assume if I were to get some small things, then it would cost about
$45 ($35 for the shipping and $10 for the packaging). Paper may not fit
in the box, or be too heavy and I would have to go with the by the
pound option.

Most if not all, packages are X-rayed at least once.

I guess it's worth a shot, I'll wait until next month when it's cooler.
No need to have things cooked in transit. :-)

Thanks, Geoff.

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Richard Knoppow - 21 Aug 2007 23:14 GMT
> Thanks for the wonderful answer. It will be a great help.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> stuff does
> not sell well here.

  Most of long post snipped...

  I am sorry to hear of the problems caused by unreasonable
taxes there. A real PITA.
  If you can obtain raw chemicals you can make your own
wash aid. For paper a simple 2% solution of Sodium Sulfite
will work well. I think sulfite is available for other uses
than photography so it may be easier to obtain than it first
looks. The use of a Sulfite wash aid very substantially
reduces the amount of water needed for washing, by at least
6 times. Also, you can save more but using a sequential bath
method. Total washing time is about the same but the amount
of water used is much less than for a running water wash.
Kodak and Ilford give instructions for film but paper can be
washed the same way. Agitate fiber prints in a sequence of
about 5 minute baths of water for about 6 changes of water
when a wash aid is used.
  Beware of red coated light bulbs as safelights. They
_look_ red but pass enough other colors to cause fogging.
They may be OK but test them. Actually, any safelight should
be checked because the filters fade with time.
  Old paper can often be used with the help of an
anti-fogging agent. The most effective is Benzotriazole but
plain Potassium bromide will work. Bromide has a greater
effect on the image color (tends to warm it up) and looses
more speed than Benzotriazole. I will have to look up the
amounts, they are given in Grant Haist's book and its in a
box somewhere right now.
  In general, cold tone papers tend to pick up fog less
than warm tone paper. I have some ancient Brovira which
still works but warmer tone paper such as Agfa Portriga
Rapid is useless even with the anti-foggant.
  Rodinal is not the ideal developer for anything but works
OK where somewhat increased grain is acceptable. That means
it work for large format negatives and for very fine grain
film. In particular, it will develop T-Max or Delta films
wtih relatively fine grain. Rodinal also makes a good, if a
bit expensive paper developer at about 1:30.

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Peter - 22 Aug 2007 19:48 GMT
> > Thanks for the wonderful answer. It will be a great help.
>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickb...@ix.netcom.com

I suppose there would be a few more options for a wash aid although
some ingenuity may help.

If I recall correctly plain old sodium cloride (table salt) helps
speed washing a little.

Sodium Sulfite is just sulfur dioxide (SO2) combined with lye (sodium
hydroxide).  He says he can get the lye so all he needs to do is burn
sulfur in a vessel that is sealed and has water in it.  Water combines
readily with SO2; the solution is slightly acid.  Then take that
solution and add a dilute solution of lye until a pH of about 7 is
reached.

Having a pipette and an indicator to reach a neutral pH may be pushing
it, but buying Hydrion pH paper over the net should not be hard and it
doesn't weigh much.  Adding lye solution with an eye dropper is a way
to mimic the pipette (with a little care added - lye is nasty).

Naturally, to do this, he needs to find some sulfur ... perhaps that
is possible?
dan.c.quinn@att.net - 22 Aug 2007 23:57 GMT
> I suppose there would be a few more options for
> a wash aid although some ingenuity may help.

  Agfa for many years recommended a 2% solution
of sodium carbonate. Dan
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 23 Aug 2007 08:24 GMT
>    Agfa for many years recommended a 2% solution
> of sodium carbonate. Dan

Ok, I'll look for those things, but it's not a priority. In 2003 I bought
large bottles of Tental developer, wash aid and fixer. The developer
did not last, but the fixer and wash aid concentrates seem to be
fine.

Of course once I get things going, I may use them up a lot quicker. :-)

Thanks, Geoff.

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Rod Smith - 23 Aug 2007 18:09 GMT
>>    Agfa for many years recommended a 2% solution
>> of sodium carbonate. Dan
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> did not last, but the fixer and wash aid concentrates seem to be
> fine.

Wash aids tend to deteriorate over time, so unless you've got a way for
testing activity, I'd be a bit cautious with the wash aid. Fixer develops
a spoiled-egg smell when it goes bad, although I suppose that might be
masked by an ammonia odor with some fixers.

As to sodium carbonate, that's a VERY common ingredient in household
detergents. In the US, Arm and Hammer Washing Soda is pure sodium
carbonate monohydrate; I use that in my formulas that call for it. You
might be able to find sodium carbonate sold as a laundry booster in
Israel, but I don't know your local brands, so you'll have to check box
ingredients yourself.

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Richard Knoppow - 24 Aug 2007 07:18 GMT
>>>    Agfa for many years recommended a 2% solution
>>> of sodium carbonate. Dan
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> to check box
> ingredients yourself.

   Fixer will eventualy decompose. When it does it has a
strong sulfur odor but also usualy has a deposit of
precipitated elemental Sulfur in it. It can be yellow or
cream. It has to be pretty far gone for this.
   Acid fixer is much more likely to decompose than plain
fixer but both have a limited life. Even rapid fixer
concentrate has a limited life, perhaps because most of it
comes in plastic containers which are permeable to air.
   The sulfite in wash aid will slowly oxidize to Sulfate.
The sulfate does no harm but does not have the washing
accelerating properties of Sulfite (or at least it has them
in much reduced amount).
   Its hard to know how long the life of a wash aid
concentrate is. The Kodak product is about 10% Sulfite and
Kodak gives its shelf life in a filled, sealed, container as
6 months. Kodak tends to be conservative about shelf life
but, since wash aid gives no sign of being oxidized, its
good practice not to keep it for too long. Working strength
wash aid is strictly an expendible and should not be saved
and re-used. Its life in a tray is several hours.

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Richard Knoppow - 24 Aug 2007 07:54 GMT
>> I suppose there would be a few more options for
>> a wash aid although some ingenuity may help.
>
>   Agfa for many years recommended a 2% solution
> of sodium carbonate. Dan

  So did Kodak. This is the result of research carried out
by Edith Wyde at Agfa labs in the 1930's. The alkali works
because it changes the pH of the gelatin to a point above
(more alkaline) than its "isoelectric" point. This changes
the electrical charges on the molecules in a way that
rejects Thiosulfate ions instead of attracting them.
  Unlike many other substances Gelatin has no definite pH.
Rather it has the properties of both an alkali and an acid.
This is called being Amphoretic. Gelatin tends to have the
pH of the last bath it was treated in. Nonetheless, the
molecular charges in Gelatin are dependent on whether the pH
is higher or lower than its isoelectric point (where the net
molecular charge is zero). When it is on the acid side the
charges are opposite to fixer and its reaction products so
their ions tend to be attracted to and held by the gelatin
molecules. By adjusting the pH to a point on the alkaline
side of the isoelectric point the charges are reversed and
repel the unwanted ions, thus accelerating their washing
out.
  The isoelectric point of gelatin depends on how it was
manufactured. For most photographic gelatin the isoelectric
point is just slightly on the acid side of neutral.u
  The alkaline condition also has an effect where a White
Alum(Potassium Aluminum Sulfate) hardener has been used. The
Alum tends to bind the Thiosulfate ions and the silver
complex ions to the gelatin in a way similar to the mordant
used to prevent the running of dye. Again, this effect is pH
dependent. It is most effective in a fairly narrow pH window
on the acid side of neutral. The alkali bath changes the pH
of the gelatin to a point where this mordanting effect is no
longer active. However, most alkalis, such as the
Carbonates, or Borax, move the pH far enough to the alkaline
side to break the cross-linking of the hardening so the
hardening is also no longer effective.
  Sodium Sulfite is also a weak alkaline and has the above
effects on Gelatin. However, most of its accelerating action
on washing is due to another effect called ion exchange. The
Sulfite ions are taken up the gelatin preferentially to the
Thiosulfate ions and Thiosulfate-silver complex ions
resulting from fixing so these are actively displaced. In
Kodak's research no other substance tested had the
ion-exchange property to the same extent as the sulfites.
Other sulfites, such s Ammonium Sulfite, can be used, but
the sodium salt is common and easy to obtain. Also, Ammonium
salts tend to be unstable in solution.
  Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent is buffered to neutral. This is
so that it will preserve the hardening action of white alum
hardener but break its mordanting effect. Neutral pH is also
far enough away from the isoelectric point of photographic
gelatin to reverse the charges on the molecules and repel
the Thiosulfate ions and fixer reaction products which may
be bound up to the gelatin and image silver electrically.
  Another advantage of conditioning the Gelatin to neutral
pH is that its swelling is minimised. The swelling of
gelatin is dependant on its pH compared to its isoelectric
point. The swelling is minimum at the isoelectric point.
Kodak, in one of its reseach papers, states that the rate of
diffusion of the unwanted ions is partly dependant on the
swelling of the Gelatin. While it seems intuitive that the
rate should increase with swelling in fact it is the
opposite. The diffusion rate is dependant on the diffusion
path, which is minimum when the Gelatin is _not_ swelled.
   Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent also contains two sequestering
agents to prevent a deposit of Sulfite, Aluminum (from the
hardener) and mineral salts from the water on the film or
paper.
  The patent shows only one of the sequestering agents,
EDTA Tetra-Sodium Salt, but the MSDS shows the commercial
product also contains some Sodium Citrate. Otherwise an
effective wash aid may be made from 2% Sodium Sulfite, or if
he buffered version is desired, add some Sodium Bisulfite
(or Sodium Metabisulfite). The patent formula shows:
For one liter of concentrate:
Sodium Sulfite            100.0 grams
Sodium Bisulfite           15.0 grams
EDTA Na4                    5.0 grams
Water to                    1.0 liter

Dilute 1 part concentrate to 4 parts water for use.

The amount of Sodium Citrate in the commercial version is
not known but is probably the same as the amount of EDTA.

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Nicholas O. Lindan - 24 Aug 2007 17:10 GMT
> For one liter of concentrate:
> Sodium Sulfite            100.0 grams
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Water to                    1.0 liter
> Dilute 1 part concentrate to 4 parts water for use.

Well, that adds yet another formula ...

I have accumulated several recipes over time. In grams/liter
of working strength they are:

                               Source
                  ==================================
                  Above Anchell Usenet Usenet Average
                                  #1     #2
S. Sulfite         20.00 20.00   10.00  15.00    16.00
S. (Meta)Bisulfite  3.00  5.00    2.00   5.00     4.00
EDTA Na4            1.00          0.25            0.60
S. Citrate          1.00(?)       0.25            0.60

I am pretty sure the exact amounts do not matter, but any
suggestions...

I am using - just to add another variation - Usenet #2
with .2gm EDTA/litre working.

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Richard Knoppow - 24 Aug 2007 18:04 GMT
>> For one liter of concentrate:
>> Sodium Sulfite            100.0 grams
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> I am using - just to add another variation - Usenet #2
> with .2gm EDTA/litre working.

    Actually, there is an error in the formula I gave,
which was done from memory.
    The formula is from the patent USP 2,860,978. This
gives an example of working solution as follows:

Sodium Sulfite...   20 grams
Sodium Bifulfite...  5 grams
EDTA Na4...         0.5 grams
Water to make       1.0 liter

    That would make the formula for a concentrate of the
commercial strength:

Sodium Sulfite, dessicated            100.0 grams
Sodium Bisulfite                       25.0 grams
EDTA Na4                                2.5 grams
Water to make                           1.0 liter

Dilute 1 part concentrate to 4 parts water for use.

    Packaged KHCA also contains Sodium Citrate. The MSDS
gives only the approximate amount, with a possible ratio of
1 to 5 in quantity. However, its given as the same ratio as
the EDTA so probably the amount is the same. Citrate is
mentioned in the patent as a possible sequestering agent but
is not included in the example.
    The other published formulas, including the ones I have
posted at various times were worked out partly from the MSDS
and partly from the amounts needed to buffer the solution to
about neutral. The above formua, being from the patent, is
more reliable and is probaby very close to the packaged
version.
   I appologize for the errors in my original post, I
should know by now not to trust my memory entirely.

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dan.c.quinn@att.net - 24 Aug 2007 00:12 GMT
> Any recemondations for a commonly available liquid paper developer?
> I plan to make up a tray full of developer and stop bath and throw them
> out when done. Fixer will probably be old, but still useable, film fixer.
> (should I dilute the fixer?)  Thanks, Geoff.

  All that's needed for film and paper developers is ascorbic acid,
phenidone, and sodium carbonate and/or borax. For fixer all that is
needed is sodium thiosulffate. Water is often used as a stop. All but
the phenidone should be close at hand. Ten grams of phenidone will
make 250 liters of developer. Likely that would be mail-order.
  If Graded paper is available a higher level of lighting can be had
in
the darkroom. I've a few orange-ish yellow safelights. Very easy to
see and do in my darkroom. Dan
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 24 Aug 2007 05:54 GMT
> the darkroom. I've a few orange-ish yellow safelights. Very easy to
> see and do in my darkroom. Dan

Speeaking of that has anyone tried to put a compact flourescent bulb in
a safelight? I assume if it would work, the safelight would have
much farther from the paper than with an icandescent one of the same
wattage.

Thanks.

Geoff.

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Richard Knoppow - 24 Aug 2007 07:00 GMT
>> the darkroom. I've a few orange-ish yellow safelights.
>> Very easy to
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Geoff.

   It would likely work but the compact fluorescent lamps
are all quite bright compared to low power incandescent
lamps. Another possibility is to use an array of LED's.
There has been a lot of discussion of LED safelights, do a
google search for it.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 24 Aug 2007 07:29 GMT
>     It would likely work but the compact fluorescent lamps
> are all quite bright compared to low power incandescent
> lamps. Another possibility is to use an array of LED's.
> There has been a lot of discussion of LED safelights, do a
> google search for it.

The advantage of compact flourescents is that they are very common
here and relatively cheap. I looked around the local shopping mall
(the largest in the "middle east") and the local hardware store.

At the mall I was unable to find anything, at the hardware store
I found 15 watt bulbs with a small base (no adaptors available)
for refigerators and sewing machines and 5-10 watt bulbs that fit
it. The lamp base is part of the safelight, it's a Kodak cone
shaped grey metal can with a lamp socket at one end and a filter
at the other.

Unfortunately I have no way of telling what their wattage really is, my
AC ammeters don't go that low.

I'm no longer sure who recommended the Kodak publication "How safe is
your safelight" (I think it was you Richard), but I can not find
it on line. A search of their web site shows several references to it,
but not the document itself. :-(

LED safelights are definitely a possibilty, I have many red LED's
and the necessary skill to wire them togther.

Yesterday, my youngest son came down and saw the enlarger and said
"ooh a camera, let's do it", so there may be hope yet. :-)

Thanks,

Geoff.

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Claudio Bonavolta - 24 Aug 2007 10:13 GMT
><snip>
> I'm no longer sure who recommended the Kodak publication "How safe is
> your safelight" (I think it was you Richard), but I can not find
> it on line. A search of their web site shows several references to it,
> but not the document itself. :-(
><snip>

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/k4/k4Contents.shtml

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=148

Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 25 Aug 2007 20:29 GMT
> http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/k4/k4Contents.shtml
>
> http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=148

Wondeful, Thanks,

Geoff.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
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Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 24 Aug 2007 05:54 GMT
>    All that's needed for film and paper developers is ascorbic acid,
> phenidone, and sodium carbonate and/or borax. For fixer all that is
> needed is sodium thiosulffate. Water is often used as a stop. All but
> the phenidone should be close at hand. Ten grams of phenidone will
> make 250 liters of developer. Likely that would be mail-order.

I'll have to look around for them. I have not seen them sold here,
and have seen several questions, but never any answers about buying them.

Thanks,

Geoff.

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Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Rod Smith - 24 Aug 2007 18:42 GMT
>>    All that's needed for film and paper developers is ascorbic acid,
>> phenidone, and sodium carbonate and/or borax. For fixer all that is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I'll have to look around for them. I have not seen them sold here,
> and have seen several questions, but never any answers about buying them.

The problem is that you're in Israel, whereas most people reading this
newsgroup are in the United States or Europe, with perhaps a few more in
other countries. We just don't know what specific sources of supply to
recommend.

You might consider checking out APUG (http://www.apug.org). My impression
is that it's less US-dominated than this newsgroup. At the very least,
there are lots of active European members. Although I don't recall any
specific posters from Israel, there may be some lurkers or others who can
recommend likely TYPES of places to look for stuff, or non-Israeli sources
who'll ship to Israel for reasonable prices. (As I've posted before, JD
Photochem in Canada [http://www.jdphotochem.com] ships internationally.)

Among common developer and fixer ingredients, sodium sulfite, sodium
carbonate, and either sodium thiosulfate or ammonium thiosulfate will be
your heaviest items, and therefore the ones that are most important to
locate locally to minimize shipping costs. Check Lloyd Erlick's site
(http://www.heylloyd.com/technicl/bulkchem.htm) for one man's tale of
locating a local source of bulk chemicals in Canada. Although his source
is likely useless to you, his procedures for finding it might help.
Another resource might be the Household Products Database
(http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov). Click the "Ingredients" tab and
type in a chemical name to see what sorts of products use it. For
instance, I typed in "sodium thiosulfate" and found that it's used in
ammonia remover for goldfish tanks, so checking pet stores might turn some
up. (Chances are you'd pay ridiculous prices at a pet store, though.)

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Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

Richard Knoppow - 24 Aug 2007 07:12 GMT
>> Any recemondations for a commonly available liquid paper
>> developer?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Very easy to
> see and do in my darkroom. Dan

   Both developers and fixers need an anti-oxidixing agent.
In traditional powder formulas this is usually Sodium
Sulfite but there are other agents that perform the same
duty in liquid concentrates. While there is an ocassional
flurry of enthusiasm for making developers without Sulfite
they really have no advantage. Sulfite in fixing baths is
necessary even when the bath is neutral to protect the
Thiosulfate from oxidation from the air and to prevent
staining from carried over developer. It is used in acid
fixing baths in excess to prevent decomposition of the fixer
by the acid.
   Sulfite performs several functions in developers. Beside
protecting the developing agents from oxidation from the air
the sulfite also acts to regenerate developer reaction
products, to prevent staining from these products, and as a
halide solvent. The action of a halide solvent is quite
mis-understood, it does not "etch" the silver crystals,
rather it changes the way the halide crystals develop into
metallic and, in moderate amounts, removes a small amount of
the crystal surface exposing more development centers and
increasing effective film speed a little. In greater
quantity, as in some fine grain developers, it can reduce
film speed by destroying some of the development centers.
The amount of Sulfite will not by itself tell you much about
the solvent activity becuse that is a complex function of
the Sulfite and the activity of the developing agents. For
instance, D-23 and D-25, an exta-fine-grain developer, have
exactly the same amount of Sulfite, but D-23 is buffered to
neutral and is much less active than D-23. So, D-23 grain
and film speed is about the same as D-76 but D-25 looses
about one stop of speed while delivering about 1/2 the
speed.
   Not much sulfite is needed in a neutral fixer, about 5
grams per liter will do. More provides some reserve to take
care of carried over developer. However, there are
advantages to regular acid fixers even when they are not
hardening fixers. Acid fixing baths usually have about 15
grams per liter of Sulfite.
   Its certainly true that not much is needed to make up
developers and fixing baths. Film can be developed with
D-23, which contains only Metol and Sulfite. A more active
developer is needed for paper but can be made up of the
above with the addition of Sodium or Potassium Carbonate,
hydroquinone (or ascorbic acid), and some Potassium bromide.
Formulas for developers and fixing baths abound on the web.

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---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

 
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