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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2007We don' need no stiinkin' Kodachrome. We got jets, man, we got jets.
http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to Carrousel Compatible Media?  SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com ** web site on making 8/16mm movies by ink-jet printing on overhead transparency media. On a slightly similar note, in cases where I've got a digital B&W (scan and photoshop fix from a neg, image shot digitally etc), I've often pondered a way of getting a real B&W print. RA4 digital minilab prints from frontiers etc just don't do it for me, and inkjet B&W prints look just disgusting. The method i've considered is using an inkjet printer to print a negative onto transparency paper at the final size (5x7, 8x10) and then contact print that onto true B&W paper. I suspect it should go ok, because B&W inkjet prints look horrible because of the mix of shades of colour. If it is then printed onto B&W paper that won't be an issue. One of these days I'll do some experimentation and actually try this. I've added it to the "one of these days" list, which is getting things added to it faster than things get ticked off :-( > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > Carrousel Compatible Media? > On a slightly similar note, in cases where I've got a > digital B&W (scan and photoshop fix from a neg, image shot [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > days" list, which is getting things added to it faster > than things get ticked off :-( Its too bad no one makes panchromatic paper any more. Perhaps Ilford could be talked into making some, I suspect there would be enough of a market to justify a couple of runs a year. Panchromatic paper makes excellent prints from color negatives and can be used for making paper negatives for printing from color transparencies although its probably better to make an enlarged interneg using something like T-Max 100. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > On a slightly similar note, in cases where I've got a > digital B&W (scan and photoshop fix from a neg, > image shot digitally etc), I've often pondered a way > of getting a real B&W print. RA4 digital minilab prints > from frontiers etc just don't do it for me, and inkjet > B&W prints look just disgusting. Hi Graham, Try http://preview.tinyurl.com/h4tgh . (This is a previewable link to the Ilford Photo/Harman Technology Ltd. site.) You'd need to find a Durst Lambda or Océ Lightjet lab to do this, but it is now doable. Ken > Hi Graham, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You'd need to find a Durst Lambda or Océ Lightjet lab to do this, but it is > now doable. Follow up... Here's a Lambda lab in Toronto, Canada offering the above technology. They were also active as a "pre-launch trial" test site for the new Ilford product. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2q87r6 (This is a previewable link to Elevator Digital's Photographic Services page.) Click on the "Lambda Premium Digital Printing" link to load a price list in a PDF-formatted document. Ken > On a slightly similar note, in cases where I've got a digital B&W (scan > and photoshop fix from a neg, image shot digitally etc), I've often [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of shades of colour. If it is then printed onto B&W paper that won't be > an issue. First of all, just like conventional silver gelatin prints, not all inkjet B&W prints are created equal. In particular, the choice of inkset and media is critical; there are quite a few aftermarket inksets available, mostly for Epson printers, which produce extremely good results. These inksets use multiple black-pigmented inks at varying density levels to produce monochrome prints. In fact, Epson heard loud and clear and has introduced a number of printers which feature an "Advanced B&W" (ABW) mode. ABW mode uses primarily black-pigmented inks at three density levels (Ultrachrome K3) with very small amounts of yellow and cyan for tone control. I have an Epson Stylus Photo R2400 and the results are truly outstanding and, if you believe the Wilhelm numbers, archival for well over 100 years. Some folks also produce negatives using inkjet output, too. An excellent mailing list on this topic - the production of high-quality B&W prints from digital images - is the Yahoo Group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ For the uninitiated, it's amazing eye-opener to what's happened in the world of digital B&W printing. Cheers, Dana > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > Carrousel Compatible Media? Ektacolor and Ektachrome were notorious for color fading. Kodachrome has excellent resistance to fading when stored in the dark but will fade when subjected to strong light as when its projected. Ektachrome actually has better resistance to intense light but fades in the dark. Eastman color negative film, on which a great many feature pictures were photographed, also faded pretty rapidly, the original Anscocolor was even worse. A lot of old color movies exist now because of frame by frame computer restoration. Some producers had color separation master postives made from the original color negative. These, of course, are B&W with a very long life, but not many producers had the forsight to spend the extra money to do it. The original Technicolor process made three color separation negatives directly in the camera. These have survived pretty well other than the usual problems with nitrate film. Also, Technicolor used quite stable dyes in their dye transfer prints so many Technicolor prints from the 30's and 40's are still in good shape, at least as far as color. Again, the nitrate film of the time has mostly decomposed to the point where it can't be projected. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com Nicholas O. Lindan spake thus: > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > Carrousel Compatible Media? One of the comments on this technique from one of the video clips echoes my own reaction: " Oh my god you cut all the sprocket holes by hand?!?!?! holy sh.t." SignatureAny system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order of use of the word "f.ck" is incapable of writing a good summary and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa. This is an inviolable rule. - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm) > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html** > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ** web site on making 8/16mm movies by ink-jet > printing on overhead transparency media. Seems like a huge amount of work for an incredibly poor result. Scott Scott W spake thus: >>http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html** >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Seems like a huge amount of work for an incredibly poor result. You might be missing the point of the exercise, which is certainly not the development of a commercially-viable process. It's something called "fun". I wrote the guy and suggested he might try 16mm as a medium (4x the image area). SignatureAny system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order of use of the word "f.ck" is incapable of writing a good summary and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa. This is an inviolable rule. - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm) > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > Carrousel Compatible Media? You know that hardware to do this has been available commercially for quite some time? In fact it's less common now than it was 10 years ago. Here's a source a quick search came up with: http://computergraphicsgroup.com/filmrecs/laser.htm > > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > > Carrousel Compatible Media? I looked at this as an absurdity: taking a digital movie, converting it to stills, pasting the stills up with the graphics outline of movie film, printing out on overhead film, cutting the strips of 'movie film' out by hand, making the sprocket holes with an exacto knife, gluing the 10" strips together, projecting them, and then taking a digital movie of the projection screen. > You know that hardware to do this has been available commercially for > quite some time? Surely you jest ... > In fact it's less common now than it was 10 years ago. That's a relief. * * * Seeing the movie result I thought: you can scan slides, print the files with an ink-jet printer on to transparency media, mount it as 35mm slides, project the slides, take digital pictures of the screen, and use a film-recorder to make slides again. And wouldn't the result be a pointless mess? > Here's a source a quick search came up with: > http://computergraphicsgroup.com/filmrecs/laser.htm Computer film recorders have been around since before the laser was invented. Google "Whirlwind I". And electronic image transmission, the fax machine, since 1843. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com > > You know that hardware to do this has been available commercially for > > quite some time? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That's a relief. I've been in the computer business a LONG time. Before video projectors (and PowerPoint for that matter) business presentations were done with Kodak Carousels. So much so, it was assumed there would be a projector at your destination; you didn't have to bring one. When these new-fangled "digital images" became available, the film recorder was born; they'd "print" the images onto 35mm Ektachrome. With well done subject material, the results were quite impressive, but the devices were a bit pricey; I recall them starting at about $6,000 in late 80's dollars. The thread below reminds me of some ancient history... I had one of the stranger film recorder setups that sort of bridged the gap between the very old corporate graphics and the entirely electronic. In fact it only lasted for a couple of years before technology made it obsolete. Polaroid use to make a 35 mm film recorder, and, of course, relatively instant slide film. As I recall, the film still needed processing, but it could be done on the spot at home or office. So I would use "corporate graphics" software to create a PowerPoint-like set of charts, graphs, and text slides, then use the film recorder to transfer them from screen to 35mm slides. Put them in the carousel and hit the road. This could be done overnight, which (at the time) was almost mind bending speed. In fact, I did this as a second job for a couple of years. With the advent of the digital projector I and my Polaroid film recorder became obsolete. Eventually it went in the trash (and I'm getting there too). Here's another sad bit of history. I threw out an almost new HP 7475 6 pen plotter a year or so ago. Remember them? The only way to print decent graphics before there was an inkjet printer. Since there are no cureent driver, and nobody interested, there was no interest, even for free, in this (originally) expensive plotter. Almost new in the original box complete with manuals and DOS software. No interest at all. Now where's that old US Robotics 300 baud modem........ >> > You know that hardware to do this has been available commercially for >> > quite some time? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > devices were a bit pricey; I recall them starting at about $6,000 in > late 80's dollars. > Here's another sad bit of history. I threw out an almost new HP 7475 6 pen > plotter a year or so ago. Remember them? The only way to print decent > graphics before there was an inkjet printer. Since there are no cureent > driver, and nobody interested, there was no interest, even for free, in this > (originally) expensive plotter. Almost new in the original box complete > with manuals and DOS software. No interest at all. I remember spending a weekend producing a load of OHP transparencies for my SIL many years ago using a 4 pen plotter when her art department missed their deadline. I can't remember what the software was but it was distinctly non-WYSIWYG, ISTR it was running via dumb terminal with an acoustically coupled modem. Try telling that to kids these days and they won't believe you. :-) yup - been there, done that. I used to have to PROGRAM the graphics shapes - of course a hatch inside a border could be done in 1 statement, but you had to program each grap in its entirety. I though that a program that let you set up the plot on screen and then send it to a plotter was a huge step forward - who could ask fo anything more? And why would we ever want more the 64K RAM (or maybe 256K RAM)...... >> Here's another sad bit of history. I threw out an almost new HP 7475 6 >> pen [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > an acoustically coupled modem. Try telling that to kids these days and > they won't believe you. :-) > Polaroid use to make a 35 mm film recorder, and, of course, relatively > instant slide film. ... create a PowerPoint-like set of charts, graphs, > and text slides, then use the film recorder to transfer them from screen > to 35mm slides. Put them in the carousel and hit the road. Hey, that's a state of the art ... it wasn't _that_ long ago ... oh, yeah, I guess it was. Should I throw my Polaroid processor out, do you think? The slide mounter thingy is good for cutting up film into strips. > Here's another sad bit of history. I threw out an almost new HP 7475 6 > pen plotter I have a Calcomp 1043GT [e-size (36x48") 8-pen plotter, india ink & rapidograph points] sitting in the basement next to the furnace. Every now and then I clean the mouse nests out of it. I don't know if it works. It's been 15 years since I gave it any 120V so it's in deep hibernation. But I _can't_ put it out on the curb. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com Welcome to the plotter generation support group.........we don't shuffle, we plot......... >> Polaroid use to make a 35 mm film recorder, and, of course, relatively >> instant slide film. ... create a PowerPoint-like set of charts, graphs, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > know if it works. It's been 15 years since I gave it any 120V so > it's in deep hibernation. But I _can't_ put it out on the curb. > Now where's that old US Robotics 300 baud modem........ In my closet, right next to the 1200, 2400, 9600, 28.8K, 56K... I remember just loving 300 baud 'cause it could throw text across my IBM PC green screen* at just about the same speed I could read it. What more could we ever need?? A month ago we went to 8 Mbps cable with a shiny new "cable modem" (actually a network bridge). 60 MB file downloads in 60 seconds. What more could we ever need?? Uh oh... I see our telephone service provider Verizon is now rolling out FiOS at up to 50 Mbps. 60 MB file downloads in 9.6 seconds. Better make some more room in that closet?? Ken * All of my Windows Command Prompt console sessions since that time have always been configured to render green-on-black text in honor of that original IBM PC system. > Uh oh... I see our telephone service provider Verizon is now rolling out > FiOS at up to 50 Mbps. 60 MB file downloads in 9.6 seconds. Better make > some more room in that closet?? Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in Montreal now. Ready for market in 2008. (Will roll out at 50 Mbps with 100 as an "upgrade"). Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. > Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in > Montreal now. Ready for market in 2008. (Will roll out > at 50 Mbps with 100 as an "upgrade"). Heh, heh... How soon before the rate-determining step becomes the computer system's internal bus? (OK, maybe not. But you get the drift.) 100 Mbps? Hell, that's Fast Ethernet. I wonder how many content providers can keep up? Try downloading the QT "Creamer.mov" movie file referenced by Jim in his OT post above. Pretty sad... (But fascinating nevertheless -- especially when he sets fire to his scanner...) Ken >>Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in >>Montreal now. Ready for market in 2008. (Will roll out [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > can keep up? Try downloading the QT "Creamer.mov" movie file referenced by > Jim in his OT post above. Pretty sad... Whenever I believe that the memory in my PC is enough; that the harddisk is big enough; that the CPU is fast enough; that my connection is fast enough ... they all get superseded and software seems to bloat continuously. Actually, I've had two "downgrades" in numbers: -Nikon 9000 ED @ 4000 dpi (v. my sold Minolta 5400 dpi) scanner. -AMD 64 Athlon Dual Core @2.2 GHz (v. my former WinXP box, now Linux box at 2.4 GHz Celeron). The Dual core is at least 4x faster when scanning with ICE on. (on the Minolta 5400 an ICE scan at 5400 took 12 - 14 minutes on the 2.4 GHz Celeron; on the "slower" Dual core it took 3 - 4 minutes). ...and to think I once thought a 40 MB hard disk was all the memory in the world. Pre-windblows of course... For now there's nothing that justifies anything faster than my 5 Mbps cable modem. The largest DLs I ever did were Linux distros ... took about 90 minutes. DLing Elements 3 took about 20 minutes IIRC. But these are 1 or 2 events per year so a faster DL is not a necessity at all. Cheers, Alan Signature-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. >>>Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in >>>Montreal now. Ready for market in 2008. (Will roll out [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Cheers, > Alan Alright, enough of you young whippersnappers! I learned FOCAL programming on a Digital PDP-8 (at school, not my own machine!), with 4K of magnetic core memory. To boot-up, we toggled the front panel switched to enter enough 1's and 0's so that the computer would recognize the punched paper tape reader. Then we could load a paper tape to boot the computer enough to read the '33 teletype unit. My first computer was a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3, with 16K of RAM. I had a 150 baud modem to connect to bulletin board systems. Next machine was a TRS-80 Model 4 (48K RAM). I eventually added 5" floppy drives to these machines to replace the cassette tape storage. My first laptop was the Radio Shack model 100, with a 40 character wide, 8 line high display. My first PC was a no-name, DIY with a 10Meg hard drive. These machines are all either landfill, closet-fill, or listings on "vintage" section of eBay; I've gotten rid of them long ago. Then there came WIndows.... and now no amount of RAM or hard drive or connection speed is enough! > My first PC was a no-name, DIY with a 10Meg hard drive. These machines are > all either landfill, closet-fill, or listings on "vintage" section of > eBay; I have one in use for OTP programming legacy systems. I used an old hp Vectra till that gave up the ghost. And I know someone who refuses to give up pfs Write on an XT ... something with being 95. My first pdp experience was an 8E. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com Lots of snipping... > Alright, enough of you young whippersnappers! > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > and now no amount of RAM or hard drive or connection > speed is enough! The first computer I had to deal with was Hewlett-Packard's version of the PDP-8, I no longer remember the model number. Anyone who had to use one carried a "basic binary bootstrap" in the form of a loop of punched paper tape around wtih them. This also required waking up with hand set switches on the front, about 5 commands, at the time I had them memorized. The machines I worked with spoke Basic. It required an interpreter to work with Fortran. -hp- had drum and high speed tape memories for these guys but I never worked with anything other than paper tape. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Lots of snipping... > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > had drum and high speed tape memories for these guys but I > never worked with anything other than paper tape. If you're talking about the HP-2100, HP-21MX, HP-1000, etc. I don't believe they derived anything from DEC. Occasionally we had to hand load the bootstrap and had the list of opcodes right by the 2100. We had a navigation computer based on that architecture. 3 boards of about 8 x 11 inches for a mere 32 Kwords of memory (of which 28 was EPROM). One cool thing was flight testing. We replaced the EPROM with battery backed up RAM. In flight, without halting the processor we could insert new instructions in free memory and then simply punch in a JMP to that code and then a JMP back to the following address to test changes in flight. Saved a lot of flight test hours and frustration. When I first started on that machine we actually "wrote" edit scripts and punched them on paper tape. Then ran the paper tape to edit from one v of source code to the next. The nav program was 70,000 lines of assembler (inc. comments) in 8 files. When we migrated that to the HP-1000 we broke that up into about 25 files for better manageability. For Y2K, because the file index system was 2 digit date dependant, we closed down the HP-1000 and had a contractor write a X-assembler on PC. That took him a few days ... 0 bugs. Alan Browne spake thus: >>> Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in >>> Montreal now. Ready for market in 2008. (Will roll out [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > enough ... they all get superseded and software seems to bloat > continuously. That's why if there were any justice in the world, if there were a god, then programmers would be forced to work on the *slowest* computers with the *least* amount of memory and storage. The way things are now, they get fancy, fast and humungous-storage machines, then assume that the rest of the world has the same setup to run their morbidly obese code ... SignatureAny system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order of use of the word "f.ck" is incapable of writing a good summary and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa. This is an inviolable rule. - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm) > That's why if there were any justice in the world, if there were a > god, then programmers would be forced to work on the *slowest* > computers with the *least* amount of memory and storage. The way > things are now, they get fancy, fast and humungous-storage machines, > then assume that the rest of the world has the same setup to run their > morbidly obese code ... That was a good line 10 years ago, but nowadays most of my disc space is gobbled up by photographs I've taken myself, and I have no programmers to blame. > nowadays most of my disc space is gobbled up by photographs > I've taken myself, and I have no programmers to blame. But you aren't requiring anyone else to put your 100gB of photos on _their_ disks. Reporter: "IBM has just announced it's 1952 computer will have 8,000 words of memory. What are people going to do with all that memory?" Grace Hopper: "Waste it." SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com >> nowadays most of my disc space is gobbled up by photographs >> I've taken myself, and I have no programmers to blame. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Grace Hopper: "Waste it." ......And they did. ......And they still are......... >> That's why if there were any justice in the world, if there were a >> god, then programmers would be forced to work on the *slowest* [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is gobbled up by photographs I've taken myself, and I have no > programmers to blame. Nonetheless, if programmers followed Mr Nebenzahl's advice (which is generally a good thing, based on his past posts!), you would have room to store dozens, perhaps hundreds more photographs on your hard drive. BTW, if you're storing all those images on your hard drive, I'm guessing you never had a hard drive failure. It's not a day at the beach! > Nonetheless, if programmers followed Mr Nebenzahl's advice (which is > generally a good thing, based on his past posts!), you would have room to > store dozens, perhaps hundreds more photographs on your hard drive. But then I wouldn't have all the software I have now, as the programmers would still be making version 0.1's, year after another. > BTW, if you're storing all those images on your hard drive, I'm guessing you > never had a hard drive failure. It's not a day at the beach! Who said I store them _only_ on my hard drive? > BTW, if you're storing all those images on your hard drive, I'm guessing you > never had a hard drive failure. It's not a day at the beach! Never had a simultaneous failure of the hard drive AND *both* backups. Pudentame spake thus: >> BTW, if you're storing all those images on your hard drive, I'm >> guessing you never had a hard drive failure. It's not a day at the beach! > > Never had a simultaneous failure of the hard drive AND *both* backups. You have *backups*? What a novel idea ... SignatureAny system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order of use of the word "f.ck" is incapable of writing a good summary and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa. This is an inviolable rule. - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm) > Pudentame spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You have *backups*? What a novel idea ... Actually, I think it was a Novel idea ... William Gibson IIRC. ;-D > That's why if there were any justice in the world, > if there were a god, There is, of course. His name is Bill and he lives on the lake shore in Medina... > then programmers would be forced to work on the > *slowest* computers with the *least* amount of memory > and storage. The way things are now, they get fancy, > fast and humungous-storage machines, then assume that > the rest of the world has the same setup to run their > morbidly obese code ... I well remember sitting at my desk with my small booklet of Intel x86 mnemonic opcodes, counting CPU clock cycles to decide if it was faster to code three inline 'movsb' instructions, or loop through a single one using the CX register. Not much call these days for such thoughtful efficiencies... I think I remember reading somewhere that the Voyager spacecraft's computers were each built around core memory modules of 4KB -- or something equally amazing. Imagine that... successfully exploring the entire solar system (with *photos*!) on a handful of KBs of memory and a tape drive storage unit. And continuing to do so thirty years later today. So how many GBs does it take these days just to install MS Office so I can type "Hello world?" Ken > I think I remember reading somewhere that the Voyager spacecraft's computers > were each built around core memory modules of 4KB -- or something equally [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > *photos*!) on a handful of KBs of memory and a tape drive storage unit. And > continuing to do so thirty years later today. There's information about the computers used on the Voyager missions at <http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html>. The section begins around two thirds of the way down the page. The first part reads: There are three different computer types on the Voyager spacecraft and there are two of each kind. Total number of words among the six computers is about 32K. Computer Command System (CCS) - 18-bit word, interrupt type processors (2) with 4096 words each of plated wire, non-volatile memory. Flight Data System (FDS) - 16-bit word machine (2) with modular memories and 8198 words each Attitude and Articulation Control System (AACS) - 16-bit word machines (2) with 4096 words each. SignatureMatthew Winn [If replying by mail remove the "r" from "urk"] > There's information about the computers used on the > Voyager missions at <http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html>. > The section begins around two thirds of the way down > the page. Thanks for that, Matthew. It's what I was looking for before I posted, but could not seem to locate. I did eventually find this, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RCA1802_CPU.jpg Powerful enough to explore the Solar System -- and interstellar space beyond -- but orders of magnitude too weak to run Windoze... Ken >>There's information about the computers used on the >>Voyager missions at <http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html>. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Powerful enough to explore the Solar System -- and interstellar space > beyond -- but orders of magnitude too weak to run Windoze... The 1802 "Cosmac" was touted as the first integrated microprocessor. I did some assembler code maintenance on realtime nav software using this little beastie. I confess that I never really grok'd its bizarre architecture and instruction set... Nonetheless we produced Doppler navigation sensors using this thing. Imagine it seeking and tuning Doppler freq. peaks and executing an Euler matrice computation, formatting and outputting the velocity set, continuos BITE ... all 20X per second... Win-dohs? We certainly had no OS of any kind, just burned the code into the EPROM and that was it. Cheers, Alan > Alan Browne spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > get fancy, fast and humungous-storage machines, then assume that the > rest of the world has the same setup to run their morbidly obese code ... Or design a program with 100,000 interrupts per second to synthesize a complex signal in two channels for real time stimulation of radar IF channels. Did that back in the early 90's, in assembler in less than 400 lines of code. (TMS320C25). The "obese" code comes from code reusage where it's easier to link a module for a function or two and also get dozens of unused functions. A good linker will remove the unused code, but that's not always done. Object programming speeds development which is a lot more expensive than mere memory. Hey - I just looked at using a 802.11N wireless router. Now I know why anyone cares about router speed! I used to "network" with parallel ports and LANTasic software. Small file transfers across the room were a slow adventure. Boy this whole thread is a trip down memory lane! >> Uh oh... I see our telephone service provider Verizon is now rolling out >> FiOS at up to 50 Mbps. 60 MB file downloads in 9.6 seconds. Better make >> some more room in that closet?? > > Videotron is test-deploying 100 MBps cable modems in Montreal now. Ready > for market in 2008. (Will roll out at 50 Mbps with 100 as an "upgrade"). > Hey - I just looked at using a 802.11N wireless router. Now I know why Pls don't top post. I had (honestly - you might remember this) a US Robotics 300 baud "auto dial " modem. WOW!! Turns out, you had to write assembler or (better yet) basic with in-line assembler to get it to dial a number!! How's that for auto-dial? It was a couple of boxes of parts. It had a big old relay to do a pulse dial with, and as it clunked along, so did a green LED on the modem. I had a callable routine loaded into high memory on my old TRS-80 that I could call from Basic and pass the phone number as a parameter. I was a God of Z-80 assembler! But who cares now? I like the idea of green on black. And likely it woun't give you a brain tumor like those 3270 terminals..... Needless to say, that one went to the land of bad parts a long time ago... >> Now where's that old US Robotics 300 baud modem........ > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > always been configured to render green-on-black text in honor of that > original IBM PC system. Pieter spake thus: > I had (honestly - you might remember this) a US Robotics 300 baud "auto dial > " modem. WOW!! Turns out, you had to write assembler or (better yet) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > could call from Basic and pass the phone number as a parameter. I was a God > of Z-80 assembler! But who cares now? I still think the Z-80 is one of the coolest machines ever invented. Like that neato-keeno "context switch" that would instantly swap two sets of registers; that was really something for the 1980s. (Unfortunately, I never got to write any code for that chip.) SignatureAny system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order of use of the word "f.ck" is incapable of writing a good summary and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa. This is an inviolable rule. - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm) >I had (honestly - you might remember this) a US Robotics 300 baud "auto >dial " modem. WOW!! Turns out, you had to write assembler or (better [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> always been configured to render green-on-black text in honor of that >> original IBM PC system. Back in the 40's my orthodontist had a television set that had a 4" by 4" green on black screen.....It was about as big as a clothes washing machine....I can still remember seeing tiny pictures of Milton Berle on that tiny green screen........ > http://www.jemof.com/epfp.html ** > > So, who's the first to convert his jpgs to > Carrousel Compatible Media? Whew, cutting out the sprocket holes with a knife! Funny that it's presented as compressed digital video with a soundtrack of a super-8 projector :-) |
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