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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2007Printing w/o easel
hi, on a thread of photo.net, i saw an article which instroduced a method of printing w/o easel, it seems interesting to me, but i believe i am not well understood what she said. can anyone please unfold the details to me? thanks. "I have a easel, but I don't use it since I read somewhere about this solution that I found very good: With an adesive spray and a piece of plane wood. Spraying one side of the wood, You get an adesive easel. You put paper in the adesive side of the piece of wood, expose, and gentle remove the paper. I found this very practical." - woody Steven Woody spake thus: > on a thread of photo.net, i saw an article which instroduced a method > of printing w/o easel, it seems interesting to me, but i believe i am [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You put paper in the adesive side of the piece of wood, expose, and > gentle remove the paper. I found this very practical." It's simple: you just need to read what they wrote. Translation: take a piece of flat wood. Spray it with sticky stuff. Stick the paper to it. Expose. Peel off and develop. Sounds a little messy for my liking, but whatever.  SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > Steven Woody spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) okay, i begin to understand the method but .... after focusing, how to put the new printing paper in the same position as the focusing paper? thanks. - woody > okay, i begin to understand the method but .... after focusing, how > to put the new printing paper in the same position as the focusing > paper? Just put a tiny piece of masking tape on the board to guide the placement of real paper. Heck, I use just a couple pencils when printing RC paper without anything Steven Woody spake thus: >>Steven Woody spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > to put the new printing paper in the same position as the focusing > paper? Again, not exactly rocket science: Stick a piece of paper there for focusing. Remove it and replace it with the paper you want to expose. (Here is where marks around the outline of the paper on the sticky board come in handy, to line the paper up.) SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > "I have a easel, but I don't use it since I read somewhere about this > solution that I found very good: With an adesive spray and a piece of > plane wood. Don't EVEN go there. Whoever wrote that is a keyboard printer. JJ spake thus: >>"I have a easel, but I don't use it since I read somewhere about this >>solution that I found very good: With an adesive spray and a piece of >>plane wood. > > Don't EVEN go there. Whoever wrote that is a keyboard printer. ??? "Keyboard printer"? 'Splain yourself. Besides which, why is this thread in the "large print edition"? SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > JJ spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Besides which, why is this thread in the "large print edition"? What's "plane" wood? mike odonoghue spake thus: >>JJ spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What's "plane" wood? A non-native English speaker's attempt to say "flat piece of wood", a misspelling for "plain wood", whatever that is, or wood from the plane tree (genus Platanus). SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) How about wood from an airplane--Baltic Fir plywood or Sitka Spruce (used for spars in the old days). But plane also means flat, plain means nothing fancy. BTW 3M used to make a bulletin board product 12x12 squares, really aggressive goo on one side, just Post-It-Note tacky on the other, made a borderless easel using the stuff. Align the focus sheet into one corner and then replaced it with the printing paper, no lines to draw, no fuss, covered the thing with an old Seal release sheet to keep the dust off when not using it. darkroommike > mike odonoghue spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > misspelling for "plain wood", whatever that is, or wood from the plane > tree (genus Platanus). > BTW 3M ... Post-It-Note tacky > Align the focus sheet into one corner and then replaced it > with the printing paper, no lines to draw, no fuss, covered > the thing with an old Seal release sheet to keep the dust > off when not using it. darkroommike My earlier post mentioned 3, 3M products and Steve Anchell's Sticky Easel composition and use. I've tested wet paper for printing. Wet paper will lie flat of it's own accord. For support I used a Saunders adjustable 8x10 borderless easel with end pieces removed. On that and against the back lifted edge I placed a sheet of white card stock sized exactly for the print paper: That for focus and composing. Noting it's position upon the support I replaced it with the pre-wet paper. The method holds promise and will test further. Dan dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus: >>BTW 3M ... Post-It-Note tacky >>Align the focus sheet into one corner and then replaced it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > support I replaced it with the pre-wet paper. The > method holds promise and will test further. Dan There goes Dan Quinn again, constantly searching for the most bizarre ways to process film and paper. Wet paper? No thank you. SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > Wet paper will lie flat > of it's own accord. Who wants to work with wet Paper? SignatureGeorge W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had. > dan.c.qu...@att.net wrote: > > Wet paper will lie flat > > of it's own accord. > > Who wants to work with wet Paper? > -- Not a matter of wanting to work with wet paper. If paper came out of the box or envelope FLAT that would be fine. A well dampened sheet will lie FLAT with NO assistance. Think pancake. Processing single-tray means no additional are are needed. After a soak of a couple of minutes sponge dry and place on the pre-positioned support. Dan dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus: >> dan.c.qu...@att.net wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > would be fine. A well dampened sheet will lie FLAT > with NO assistance. Think pancake. That'w what *easels* are for, you silly goose. To hold the paper flat. What is it with you? Everything that most other people use--enlarging easels (with *dry* paper--what a concept!), multiple-tray processing--is somehow a crutch, a violation of your religious faith in the One True Way of processing? Sheesh. SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) Not so bad with Dan's single tray method (and I've used single tray for years for larger prints-mostly a matter of space). I suppose if you had some very curly paper the wet paper trick has merit. Also tried the under glass trick, didn't care for it. I suppose you could even put your paper positioning marks in your tray and make a jig to position the tray under the enlarger. Also has potential for re-exposure tricks like Sabattier (pseudo solarization). darkroommike >> dan.c.qu...@att.net wrote: >>> Wet paper will lie flat [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sponge dry and place on the pre-positioned > support. Dan >> dan.c.qu...@att.net wrote: >> > Wet paper will lie flat [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >sponge dry and place on the pre-positioned >support. Dan February 19, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick, Is the pre-positioned support a flat piece of something like plastic that can simply be lifted to carry the sheet to the processing tray, support and all ... ?? Or is it the tray itself, with the wet sheet placed on the bottom of the empty tray? Does the face of the sheet have to be wet (and hence sponged off, with all the grit for scratches and contaminants in the sponge and left-behind droplets to distort the image) or is it easy to wet the tray or support just enough to grab the back of the print with no wetness on the face? Well, that's not a well written paragraph but you get the idea. regards, --le ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. website: www.heylloyd.com telephone: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com ________________________________ -- > Is the pre-positioned support a flat piece > of something like plastic that can simply be > lifted to carry the sheet to the processing > tray, support and all ... ?? A method I've developed calls for pre-wetting the paper in the processing tray. Remember, I process single tray. The drained paper is placed on counter and sponged front back front. Then it is lifted and set upon the prepositioned support. The support has a back and or side rail; actually at this time a Saunders borderless 8x10 with the adjustable end guides removed. I have thought of using a support which incorporates a wetable surface. > ... to wet the ...support just enough to > grab the back of the print with no wetness > on the face? I'd say no. The paper needs to be completely relaxed. But a moistened support may be a good idea. That or a left wet paper side. Just last night I noticed while re-wetting some prints for corrugated stack drying using hydrophobic separator sheets that some very little lifting at the edges of a sheet can remain even if the paper has been soaked for a few minutes. Perhaps the manufacture of the paper leaves some internal areas of stress? BTW, I've been conducting press weighting experiments. That is, how many books or whatever are needed to produce Maximum Flat. So far not so much as I once thought and with the test currently under way I may find that Much less weight will do. Dan > Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. > website:www.heylloyd.com > telephone: 416-686-0326 > email: portr...@heylloyd.com On Feb 19, 4:49 pm, dan.c.qu...@att.net wrote: > BTW, I've been conducting press weighting experiments. > That is, how many books or whatever are needed to produce > Maximum Flat. So far not so much as I once thought and > with the test currently under way I may find that Much > less weight will do. Dan Two short stacks, four issues each of just the right size magazines for full coverage, yielded a bunch of clean flat prints. Total weight was six lbs or four lbs per square foot on the 12x 18 inch Corrugated Board stack dryer. Six days BTW. I've another bunch to dry, 5x7s and 8x10s. I'll bring the weight down by one issue each stack; about three lbs per square foot. Likely that little is close to minimum. I know some weight is necessary because the Corrugated Board, weighing nearly nothing, does not snug down upon the prints. Dan > hi, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > - > woody The type of adhesive you use is important. Too sticky, and you won't be able to easily remove the paper for developing. You want a "re-positionable" or "low-tack" adhesive, similiar to that used on post-it notes. The adhesive will lose it's stickiness due to dust collecting on it and you will have to give it another coat of spray. Eventually, the board will get so gummed up and messy that you will give it up in favor of a real borderless easel. SignatureKen Hart kwhart@fullnet.com Steven Woody spake thus: > on a thread of photo.net, i saw an article which instroduced a method > of printing w/o easel, it seems interesting to me, but i believe i am > not well understood what she said. can anyone please unfold the > details to me? thanks. [gory details snipped] Two more methods of printing borderlessly to consider: 1. Vacuum easel: board with small holes drilled in it connected to vacuum source (vacuum cleaner could be used). 2. Sheet of glass placed over paper. Can't vouch for how effective the second method is, but the first one works well if you want to go to the trouble. SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > Steven Woody spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Can't vouch for how effective the second method is, but the first one > works well if you want to go to the trouble. #3. "Cone of light" (what a pretentious expression!) Borderless easel. This easel has guides that have just enough bevel to hold the paper, but not enough bevel to get in the way of the light from the lens (because the light from the lens is a cone-shape...). I've been using one of these easels for many years with good success. One side of the easel has a non-moveable edge, and there are three moveable guides that hold the paper in position. Over the years, I've added various permanent marker lines to help with composing the image. > hi, on a thread of photo.net, i saw an article which > instroduced a method of printing w/o easel, it seems > interesting to me ... woody Check out these materials via Google. 3M ReMount and 3M Spray Mount. Also you can search by, MMM 6091, MMM 6065, and MMM 6064. Steve Anchell has detailed a Sticky Easel in his Darkroom Cook book. I've read good reports for both the 3M and Anchell's Sticky easels. I tested a wet paper method. Sponge dried the paper rested quite flat upon a pre-positioned support. I'll be doing some more work with that method. Dan Printing without an easel is no problem with flat RC paper. Just put some removeable marks on the baseboard so you know where to position the paper. Unfortunately FB paper often doesn't stay flat, so you need either an easel or one of the many other methods (vacuum, adhesive, etc.) > on a thread of photo.net, i saw an article which instroduced a method > of printing w/o easel, it seems interesting to me, but i believe i am [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > - > woody > hi, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > - > woody Just go out and get an adjustable easel. Forget about sticky stuff and wet paper under the enlarger light. There are also some quite nice fixed format easels that are perfectly squared. Why make things complicated? > > hi, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > wet paper under the enlarger light. There are also some quite nice fixed > format easels that are perfectly squared. Why make things complicated? reason 1: good quality easels are too expensive to afford. reason 2: i in most time use 120 film, hence the print is exactly square to which there is no quick easel will fit. - woody > > Just go out and get an adjustable easel. Forget about sticky stuff and > > wet paper under the enlarger light. There are also some quite nice fixed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > - > woody I agree with Mike, there probably are enough used easels that you could get a decent one on Ebay. Or you could fairly easily build a vacuum easel and use a standard vacuum cleaner to hold paper down if borderless prints work for you. SignatureGeorge W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had. > In article <1171623454.280447.299...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > George W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had. would you please teach me how to use a vacuum cleaner to build a vacuum easel? i get absolutly no idea. thanks. - woody > would you please teach me how to use a vacuum cleaner to build a > vacuum easel? i get absolutly no idea. The vacuum cleaner gets hooked to the easel, your not using it to build the easel. SignatureGeorge W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had. Steven Woody spake thus: >>In article <1171623454.280447.299...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > would you please teach me how to use a vacuum cleaner to build a > vacuum easel? i get absolutly no idea. Sure. But first of all you have to tell us why the posts suddenly switch to the "large print edition" whenever you reply. OK: to make a vacuum easel, you basically build a hollow box connected to the vacuum cleaner. The box will be shallow, with a connection to the vacuum-cleaner hose. The top of the box--where you put the paper to be exposed--will have a grid pattern of very small holes drilled in it. When you connect it to the vacuum cleaner and turn it on, air will be sucked in through the little holes. Put a piece of paper on the top and it will be held flat to the top by the suction. Simple. I know this works, by the way, because I once built a similar device to hold film in a process camera. I drilled holes about 1/8" in diameter on a grid spaced 1/2". It worked great. SignatureDon't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a variorum text that would be put up on that site. It is a WASTE OF TIME. - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) > Steven Woody spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > sucked in through the little holes. Put a piece of paper on the top and > it will be held flat to the top by the suction. thanks! i understand. > Simple. I know this works, by the way, because I once built a similar > device to hold film in a process camera. I drilled holes about 1/8" in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > - Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison) On 2?17?, ??3?11?, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote: > Steven Woody spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > sucked in through the little holes. Put a piece of paper on the top and > it will be held flat to the top by the suction. thanks! i understand. > Simple. I know this works, by the way, because I once built a similar > device to hold film in a process camera. I drilled holes about 1/8" in > diameter on a grid spaced 1/2". It worked great. By the time this posts, the eBay auction will be ended, but check out item #170080278419, saunders enlarging easel. I've been using the 16x20 version of this for many years, and I find it to work great. > Simple. I know this works, by the way, because I once > built a similar device to hold film in a process camera. > I drilled holes about 1/8" in diameter on a grid spaced > 1/2". It worked great. Sticky Back was the term used for the film holding material used in the Process camera work I was employed at many years ago. I recall those and other sheet films as being flat and flexible. I'd be more interested in using a Sticky Easel if DW FB paper were as flat and flexible as film. I envisage difficulties in just placing dry warped DW FB paper on a sticky or vacuumed surface. That's why wet. Saunders has a line of Single Size easels with narrow drop-down likely steel frames; 5x7 through 20x24 IIRC. Have any used those? Dan > Saunders has a line of Single Size easels with narrow > drop-down likely steel frames; 5x7 through 20x24 IIRC. > Have any used those? Dan Yes. Work great, though I have only used the 5x7 and 8x10. Don't know they went larger than 11x14, and TTTT a 20x24" might be unwieldy. I don't think they are made anymore. Pretty indestructible so used ones should be no problem The Ganz Speed-Ezel [?] came in 20x24, along with useful odd sizes like 3.5 x 5. Both work equally well in my opinion. For 20x24 I tape the paper in place with "drafting tape" - a masking tape with a weak Post-It type adhesive. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com > I'd be more interested in using a Sticky Easel if DW >FB paper were as flat and flexible as film. I envisage >difficulties in just placing dry warped DW FB paper on >a sticky or vacuumed surface. That's why wet. Vacuum easels work fine with double weight fibre base paper straight from the envelope or box. No need to get the dry side of your darkroom all soggy. SignatureThor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls.com "All of my opinions are consistent, but I cannot present them all at once." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau, On The Social Contract A vacuum easel is essentially a box. The box has a top of perforated material, most of the do-it-yourself models I have seen use a sheet of Masonite "peg-board" which has a grid of holes drilled 1 inch apart (originally used in a shop to hang tools). In practice you have to build a "maze" or plenum under the top from wood to support the top so it doesn't flex when you switch the vacuum on. Make sure to cover the holes in your easel not covered by your printing paper with other paper (or masking tape) so that the vacuum pulls hard enough to hold the paper flat. Home vacuums will overheat if your keep them on like this for long periods so plan on "resting" the vacuum cleaner between prints so you don't burn out the motor. Commercial vacuum easels show up on eBay from time to time. The vacuum pumps are better/stronger the tops are flatter and use smaller holes. I often thought if I could get a piece of the material that air hockey tables are made from I would try making a home easel. darkroommike >> In article <1171623454.280447.299...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > - > woody >I often thought if I could get a piece of the material that >air hockey tables are made from I would try making a home >easel. Been there, done that, got the fogged paper to prove it. Air hockey tables are made from shiny stainless steel. Paint not only doesn't stick to the stuff well, it will clog up the holes and make the easel useless. SignatureThor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls.com "All of my opinions are consistent, but I cannot present them all at once." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau, On The Social Contract darkroommike <darkroommike@cableone.net> wrote: > I often thought if I could get a piece of the material that > air hockey tables are made from I would try making a home > easel. Process cameras have vacuum backs for holding the film. Not all of them are in landfills, yet. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com >>>hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > - > woody 1. ebay might be the answer to affordable easels. 2. 120 film — won't fit most paper formats. Print a white border and trim later. |
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