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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2007

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How does tonal compression work?

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Tim Allen - 15 Oct 2006 13:58 GMT
Hello,

My newbie questions concerns to tonal compression that happens when a
negative (gamma of 0,7, exposure range of about 7 stops, max density of
~2.0D, brightness range of 100:1) is beeing printed on positive paper
(gamma of 1,4, ~exposure range 4-5 stops, max density of ~2.0D,
brightness range of 100:1). - I just do not understand, or cannot
imagine, how the tones are compressed so that the 10 stops of subject
brighness are squeezed into the 5 stops of the paper. What happens to
the values that are not reproducible, are they lost? I would appreciate
if someone could explain to me what´s going on in this process.

Thanks a lot!
Tim Allen
Greg "_" - 15 Oct 2006 15:35 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Thanks a lot!
> Tim Allen

That's a very dense neg, with comparatively short tone range.

To answer:

The relative relation shrinks logarithmically so that it fits visually
on the paper of choice.

Positive paper-using a negative?
Signature

Reality-Is finding that perfect picture
and never looking back.

www.gregblankphoto.com

Al Denelsbeck - 15 Oct 2006 16:57 GMT
"Tim Allen" <tim.allen@gmx.com> wrote in news:1160917100.221556.142590
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Thanks a lot!
> Tim Allen

       The simplest explanation would probably be "rounding."

       If you take a value of something that is expressed in decimals
(money is a good example) and are restricted to using whole numbers
(whole dollar amounts), you end up using whatever value is closest.

       In photographic terms, the subtler gradations become pressed
together into one. To oversimplify it, what might have been "lighter
medium gray," "medium gray," and "darker medium gray" all now become
simply "medium gray."

       If you had subtle details within those ranges of the original
negative, they will be lost, "rounded" into the narrower range of the
paper.

       I admit this is slightly misleading, in that it is not necessarily
a straight progression. With various methods, you can choose to retain
more detail in a particular range, at the expense of others - allow the
highlights to blow out so you can retain shadow detail, for instance. But
it illustrates the basic idea of total compression.


    - Al.

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j - 15 Oct 2006 18:03 GMT
[...]

Excellent description, Al.

To the OP: If means of copeing with compression interest you, look into
"contrast masks", "unsharp masking" and "split grade printing". (All
wet-darkroom techniques, not Photoshop versions.) :)
David Nebenzahl - 15 Oct 2006 20:10 GMT
j spake thus:

> To the OP: If means of copeing with compression interest you, look into
> "contrast masks", "unsharp masking" and "split grade printing". (All
> wet-darkroom techniques, not Photoshop versions.) :)

Yes: now can someone explain how "unsharp masking" worked in pre-digital
days? I've only found references that the term comes from wet
photography, but no further explanations. How did they sharpen images
optically in those olden days?

Signature

 "In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
 will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
 population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
 wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
 that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority."

David Nebenzahl - 15 Oct 2006 20:23 GMT
David Nebenzahl spake thus:

> j spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> photography, but no further explanations. How did they sharpen images
> optically in those olden days?

Wikipedia has this to say about the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking

Is this accurate?

Signature

 "In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
 will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
 population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
 wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
 that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority."

John - 15 Oct 2006 23:31 GMT
>Wikipedia has this to say about the subject:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking
>
>Is this accurate?

Yep. That's the basics of it and about all I had the time to learn
about it. Works pretty well for some subjects however you need a pin
registering jig to make it work well. Hollyweird has used the effect
in a few movies to enhance the graphic look of some scenes. I believe
Gladiator is one example.

==
    John S. Douglas
    Photographer & Webmaster
    Legacy-photo.com - Xs750.net
Greg "_" - 16 Oct 2006 00:15 GMT
> >Wikipedia has this to say about the subject:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>      Photographer & Webmaster
>      Legacy-photo.com - Xs750.net

Howard Bond offers reasonably priced workshops on the technique as
applied to conventional printing.
Signature

Reality-Is finding that perfect picture
and never looking back.

www.gregblankphoto.com

Tom Phillips - 16 Oct 2006 03:59 GMT
Greg \"_\" wrote:

> > >Wikipedia has this to say about the subject:
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Howard Bond offers reasonably priced workshops on the technique as
> applied to conventional printing.

I've seen sone of Howards masked prints (including
a 50 inch enlargement of the Tetons.) It was pretty
stunning. Course for his workshops you have to travel
to MI and they tend to fill up fast.
Matt Clara - 16 Oct 2006 23:42 GMT
> Greg \"_\" wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> stunning. Course for his workshops you have to travel
> to MI and they tend to fill up fast.

http://www.apogeephoto.com/howard_bond.html
One class left in November...
professor352003 - 13 Feb 2007 06:50 GMT
Check out Lynn Radeka site on masking at maskingkits.com. I attended a
workshop of his and learned about all kinds of contrast masks. Amazing how
much there is to it. I think Howard Bond only does unsharp masks and maybe
dodge masks. Lynn's workshop is more comprehensive. Highly recommended.

Professor John
--

> > Greg \"_\" wrote:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> http://www.apogeephoto.com/howard_bond.html
> One class left in November...
professor352003 - 13 Feb 2007 06:56 GMT
Check out Lynn Radeka's site on masking at maskingkits.com. He also teaches
workshops and I highly recommend them. Howard Bond only teaches unsharp
masking and dodge masking but this workshop is much more comprehensive and
teaches all kinds of useful masks. I used to think unsharp masking was the
only kind but now I learned how to make all sorts of masks that control
other aspects of print contrast.

Professor John

--

> > Greg \"_\" wrote:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> http://www.apogeephoto.com/howard_bond.html
> One class left in November...
Claudio Bonavolta - 16 Oct 2006 08:50 GMT
David Nebenzahl a écrit :

> David Nebenzahl spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
> Authority."

This is one type, the most common, of silver masking but there several
others.
Here are few pointers:
- regretted Barry Sherman posted on rec.photo.darkroom his method for
LF Ilfochrome printing, I made a copy available on
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/fr/photo/masking101.htm
- http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unsharp/
- http://www.maskingkits.com a commercial site but with a good
description of the various mask types.
- Post Exposure by Ctein (ISBN 0240802993)
- there was an old Cibachrome booklet, the french version was named
"Ilford Cibachrome II - Masques Correcteurs" and gave many infos on
contrast and color correction masks.

Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
Nicholas O. Lindan - 16 Oct 2006 14:39 GMT
> > Yes: now can someone explain how "unsharp masking" worked in pre-digital
> > days? I've only found references that the term comes from wet
> > photography, but no further explanations. How did they sharpen images
> > optically in those olden days?

An old post on the subject:

From: "Nicholas O. Lindan" <nolin...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsharp masking: What & How
Date: 1997/12/30
Message-ID: <34A9CE46.6FC5@ix.netcom.com>
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom

Unsharp masking accentuates the detail in the picture.  It does
not make the picture sharper.  It is the photographic equivalent
of turning up the treble control on the stereo.

The results can be quite striking, though, given the right
subject matter.  Rocky landscapes become surreally bold while the
sky and clouds look unchanged.

To explain the process I will use a picture of a light gray
square on a dark grey background.  Thrilling subject, no?  And I
am going to take a line through the middle of the picture on
which to make graphs of either reflectivity or negative density.

In the beginning we take a plain old B&W picture:

Subject reflectance:

 Lite grey           _______________________
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
 Dark grey _________|                       |_______________

Negative density:

 Lite grey _________                         _______________
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
 Dark grey          |_______________________|

So far, so good.  If we make a print from the negative we would,
if all things are done right, get the same tones as the subject.

Instead we make an unsharp mask by contact printing the negative
onto another piece of film, called the mask, and doing it badly.  We
place a material between the negative and the mask when we expose
the mask.  This makes the mask into a fuzzy positive image of our
subject.  Since the mask is fuzzy, the technique has come to be
called 'unsharp masking'.  We also expose and develop the mask so
that it's contrast is less than the negative.

If we plot the density of the mask it looks like:

 Very lite grey      ______________________
                    /                      \
 Lite grey ________/                        \_____________

Notice that the transitions between the grey tones is sloping.
In real life the slope will look more like an S-curve.

If we now sandwich the negative with the mask the densities of
the two will add as shown below:

Negative density:

 Lite grey _________                         _______________
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
 Dark grey          |_______________________|

Mask density:

 Very lite grey      ______________________
                    /                      \
 Lite grey ________/                        \_____________

Resulting density:

 Grey
 Dark grey ________/|                       |\______________
                    |                       |
 Very dark grey     | _____________________ |
 Almost black       |/                     \|

The masked negative we have created has a lower contrast for the
continuous regions than the original negative.  However the
contrast at the transitions between the two greys have the same
contrast range as the original negative.

To compensate for the loss of contrast we print the masked
negative on a higher contrast grade of paper with the following
result.

Print reflectance:

 White
                    |\                     /|
 Lite grey          | \___________________/ |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
 Dark grey _______  |                       |  _____________
                  \ |                       | /
 Black             \|                       |/

Which you can compare with the original subject reflectance:

 Lite grey           _______________________
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
                    |                       |
 Dark grey _________|                       |_______________

In the print the transition from dark grey to lite grey goes
first to black then takes a flying leap to white before settling
down to the lite grey tone.

This effect is sometimes called 'sharpen' in photo/paint computer
programs, but actually no sharpening takes place.  What does
happen is that edges are made more prominent.

Note that I cheated in the drawing of the print reflectance in
the final step.  The horizontal dimensions of the overshoots
should be half of what is shown, but ASCII only has one slope
available for the /\ characters.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

David Nebenzahl - 16 Oct 2006 17:38 GMT
Nicholas O. Lindan spake thus:

> This effect is sometimes called 'sharpen' in photo/paint computer
> programs, but actually no sharpening takes place.  What does
> happen is that edges are made more prominent.

So it really ought to be called "edge enhancement", or some such.

Signature

 "In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
 will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
 population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
 wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
 that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority."

prep@prep.synonet.com - 24 Oct 2006 17:37 GMT
> Yes: now can someone explain how "unsharp masking" worked in
> pre-digital days? I've only found references that the term comes
> from wet photography, but no further explanations. How did they
> sharpen images optically in those olden days?

You expose a film spaced from the original so the fine detail is
gone. You normally also expose it so it is quite thin. Expose through
both, and the large detail is subtracted from the original, but the
fine detail, lost from the mask, is left at full strength.

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professor352003 - 13 Feb 2007 07:04 GMT
Sorry for the repeat message. Still getting used to these newsgroups.

Professor John

--

> > Yes: now can someone explain how "unsharp masking" worked in
> > pre-digital days? I've only found references that the term comes
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
> EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
Gregory Blank - 13 Feb 2007 11:50 GMT
> Sorry for the repeat message. Still getting used to these newsgroups.
>
> Professor John

Sure thing "Lynn".
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 15 Oct 2006 19:20 GMT
"Tim Allen" <tim.allen@gmx.com> wrote
> I just do not understand, or cannot
> imagine, how the tones are compressed so that the 10 stops of subject
> brighness are squeezed into the 5 stops of the paper.

You have the squeezing done by the film and the squeezing
done by the paper.  Each is controllable - the gist of the
Zone system is to take the scene brightness and translate
it into the paper tones so it comes out the way you want it.

Under normal conditions no squeezing is done: a scene has a 7 stop
range of brightness and paper has a 7 stop range of reflectance.
By manipulating exposure, development and paper grade this range
can be varied either to accommodate the subject or to convey
the 'visualized image'.

For the short explanation see A. Adams Vol. 2 - "The Negative",
and Vol. 3 - "The print"

For the long explanation see C. E. K. Mees - "The Theory of the
Photographic Process", a book that spends 1100 pages answering
your question.

Sorry to give a 'smart-arsed' answer, but the subject is either:
really simple [it's all 7 stops / 2.1 OD and don't worry about
it]; to moderately confusing and not-quite-right [A. Adams];
to mind boggling/numbing and like the Bible accepted on faith
by most of us [Mees]

The gist of the whole thing can be shown be drawing HD curves,
the sort of S-shaped curves that pop up everywhere in
photography, and reflecting eye to brightness to negative to
print to eye.

These curves must be somewhere on the web but I can not find
them, so as part of a review of Mees* and the fair-use
provision of the copyright act I have posted them at:

http://www.nolindan.com/UsenetStuff/Mees001.jpg

http://www.nolindan.com/UsenetStuff/Mees002.jpg

*Review of Mees, The Theory of the Photographic Process,
Revised Edition:  Damn good book, buy it.  abebooks.com

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Nicholas O. Lindan - 15 Oct 2006 19:46 GMT
> "Tim Allen" <tim.allen@gmx.com> wrote

> > tonal compression ... negative ... brightness range ...paper...?

>    The simplest explanation would probably be "rounding."
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> negative, they will be lost, "rounded" into the narrower range of the
> paper.

I am not sure of the original question: if it is about range in brightness
then
this effect may be secondary, it is however, scene _information_ is lost or
compressed.  The effect has to do with the grain size of the film and the
size
of the detail in the subject.

If the grain is coarse then a small area [say the size of 4 grains] can only
have one of 4 shades of grey depending on how many grains have been
developed.  If
the grain size is fine [say the same area has 64 grains] then 64 shades of
grey
can be shown.

If large areas of the film are measured the two films will show no
difference
in the number of shades of grey they can produce: 2,000 shades of grey looks
no different than 20,000 shades of grey.

The effect is often refereed to as 'micro-contrast'.  The reason given
for the effect is usually wrong - lenses from a certain German firm being
touted as having high 'microcontrast'.

When a resolution test is performed on films it can be shown that two films
can resolve the same number of lines/mm and visually the two films have the
same grain.  However, if the same test is run using step tablets as the
target the finer grained film will show a progression of square-shaped
tones and the coarser grained film will show a white to black blur.

The 'look' of large and medium format is due to this effect.  Even though
grain
may be invisible in a 35mm picture and in a medium format picture of the
same
resolution the MF picture will look, well, 'medium formatish' and better.
$5 Zeiss Nettar trounces $5,000 Leica.

It is also why TechPan can [could] make large/medium format looking prints.
TMax100
developed in Microdol has the same RMS grain as TechPan and the same
resolution
but TMax100 pictures will never be confused with anything large or medium
format:
they look distinctly 35ish.  It is not the RMS visual grain or resolution
that
matters but the number of grains per square mm, and in this measure TechPan
trounces TMax.

It is the same reason all printers may a resolution of 300 pix/inch but ones
that put
down more and finer dots look so much better.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Tim Allen - 16 Oct 2006 23:23 GMT
Thank you Al for this great comparison. Now I got it!

Tim Allen
Floyd L. Davidson - 15 Oct 2006 23:23 GMT
>Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Thanks a lot!
>Tim Allen

You have (probably) two process where three characteristics are
significant.

The three characteristics which are manipulated are the black
point, the white point, and the shape of the curve used to go
from black to white as brightness increases.

In an original scene there is a range of brightness, which may
or may not be about the same as whatever is used to record it
with (film or digital, for example).

In the first process (recording the scene), with film it is
possible to manipulate the chemical development stages to adjust
for different lighting in the original scene.  With digital,
post processing of the image date accomplishes the same task.

The second process is when the image is transfered to paper.
Again, as with film, paper that is chemically developed can be
manipulated while in the digital world the data is.

Hence, by using different film and processing, a scene that has
shadows say at 5 fstops lower brightness than the brightest
white levels, the shadows can be recorded with those shadows
totally black, or significantly brighter.  At least one fstop of
variation is easy, and more is not difficult.  The same is true
of what is recorded as white or near white.

With film (as opposed to digital) these totally white or totally
black points of recorded brightness are not abrupt, but instead
represent a significant change in the slope (rate of change)
rather than an absolute value.  Hence a "linear" curve may exist
for approximately 7 fstops of brightness, and either above or
below that the curve no longer has the same slope.  Everything
above the upper "toe" of the curve is "white", and everything
below the lower toe of the curve is "black".

The same is true of paper that is chemically developed.

Ideally a scene would match the film and the resulting negative
would match the paper, and the print would *look* exactly like
the original scene looked.  But often one part or another does
not match.  If the scene has too large a brightness range to be
recorded on film, there simply is no way to reconstruct it.  But
a narrow range can be expanded on the final print by using film
that also has less range.  Or conversely a wide range film can
be used and a narrow range printing paper can be used.
Different paper "grades" are used, basically to increase or
decrease the contrast ratio available on the film in an attempt
to match the final results (the print) to the original scene.

With digital it is a matter of looking at "curves" with an
editing program, and moving the white or black levels.

Changing the shape of a curve is relatively difficult with
chemically developed film or paper (different film or paper is
selected to change), and extremely easy with digital.  Hence
that "linear" curve covering 7 fstops need not be linear at all.
That is where "gamma correction" comes in.  With digital
processing it is very easy to dial in preset amounts of "gamma
correction".  It is nothing more or less than a non-linear
transfer function that causes near white areas to be shifted
more, or less, than near black areas.

Signature

Floyd L. Davidson            <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@apaflo.com

 
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