Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2006
Ilford MGW Warmtone FB paper storage longevity ...
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Lloyd Erlick - 15 Feb 2006 16:39 GMT February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
I've recently been putting my darkroom back into operation after a hiatus of a couple of years.
I just made prints on some paper I bought before I moved my darkroom. I marked the box November, 2002. So the paper is likely just about four years old. (It's 16x20 sheets of glossy material. I had about a quarter of a box left, judging by the weight, maybe ten or fifteen sheets.)
At first I thought the paper had died, because the first few prints were flat and had lifeless blacks. But once I found the correct exposure the prints were fine. Perfectly dense black, pristine white borders, a nice tonality in the skin tones.
So, although I am surprised, I've found that MGW will last three or four years minimum in very ordinary storage (room temperature, indoors).
I did not make any change in my usual developer, either (i.e., no added bromide).
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: po rtrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
theyankeesnapper@aol.com - 16 Feb 2006 13:12 GMT Refrigerated I found that is good up to 6 years so far. Rather than use this pack up, I've decided to put it back in the fridge and test it again next year. I also found that Forte' vcfb lasts as long. Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well.
Lloyd Erlick - 16 Feb 2006 16:08 GMT On 16 Feb 2006 05:12:01 -0800, "theyankeesnapper@aol.com"
>Rather than use this pack up, I've decided to put it back in the fridge >and test it again next year. February 16, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
What a great idea! I'm doing the same with a batch of selenium toner I made up in 2002. As long as it's good, I'll keep it and keep track of it. Something tells me selenium toner will last longer than photosensitive paper!
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
Nicholas O. Lindan - 16 Feb 2006 18:59 GMT > Something tells me selenium > toner will last KRST toner contains sodium/ammonium thiosulfate which degrades with contact with oxygen.
KRST should slowly turn into plain-ole [non-rapid] selenium-sulfide toner. The sulfide toner should work but will be slower.
Selenium will form compounds with organic chemicals, I don't know how much gelatin etc. comes off in the toner or if anything significant will happen.
Given time and use KRST throws a sludge, so obviously something _is_ happening.
There are some _real_ chemists in this newsgroup...would any like to comment.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
Lloyd Erlick - 17 Feb 2006 18:40 GMT >KRST should slowly turn into plain-ole [non-rapid] >selenium-sulfide toner. The sulfide toner should work >but will be slower. February 17, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
In my case I probably would not notice. I use it for ten minutes diluted 1+5. I wouldn't throw it out ...
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
Lloyd Erlick - 06 Mar 2006 12:38 GMT >Given time and use KRST throws a sludge, so obviously something >_is_ happening. > >There are some _real_ chemists in this newsgroup...would >any like to comment. March 6, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
Indeed it does throw a sludge! And I have found this sludge very mych reduced after removing any acid in my process. I'd love to hear comments from a real chemist...
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
Nicholas O. Lindan - 16 Feb 2006 18:47 GMT > Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well. Oriental G graded has all turned to grade 1 after ~5 years at room temperature.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
John - 18 Feb 2006 15:42 GMT >> Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well. > >Oriental G graded has all turned to grade 1 after ~5 years >at room temperature. Started as Grade 2, right ?
== John - Photographer & Webmaster www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
ellinger@umich.edu - 16 Feb 2006 20:13 GMT >February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, <snip>
>At first I thought the paper had died, >because the first few prints were flat and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I did not make any change in my usual >developer, either (i.e., no added bromide). My experience is that MGWT loses contrast in room temperature storage. (I often print for maximum contrast with a grade 5 filter.) This is backed up by a local photographer who is very exacting about process and has done extensive tests. He keeps MGWT in a freezer and removes only enough sheets for a single printing session.
YMMV.
Chris Ellinger Ann Arbor, MI USA
Lloyd Erlick - 17 Feb 2006 18:40 GMT >>February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Ann Arbor, MI >USA February 17, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
This is very interesting. I didn't do any scientific observation. My paper could well have lost contrast. Actually, it seemed to me the numbers I had to enter on the light controller were higher contrast than I would have predicted from looking at the negative. But all that is moot, since the paper performs. I won't be storing quantities of it, though.
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
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