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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2006

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Ilford MGW Warmtone FB paper storage longevity ...

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Lloyd Erlick - 15 Feb 2006 16:39 GMT
February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

I've recently been putting my darkroom back
into operation after a hiatus of a couple of
years.

I just made prints on some paper I bought
before I moved my darkroom. I marked the box
November, 2002. So the paper is likely just
about four years old. (It's 16x20 sheets of
glossy material. I had about a quarter of a
box left, judging by the weight, maybe ten or
fifteen sheets.)

At first I thought the paper had died,
because the first few prints were flat and
had lifeless blacks. But once I found the
correct exposure the prints were fine.
Perfectly dense black, pristine white
borders, a nice tonality in the skin tones.

So, although I am surprised, I've found that
MGW will last three or four years minimum in
very ordinary storage (room temperature,
indoors).

I did not make any change in my usual
developer, either (i.e., no added bromide).

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: po rtrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

theyankeesnapper@aol.com - 16 Feb 2006 13:12 GMT
Refrigerated I found that is good up to 6 years so far.
Rather than use this pack up, I've decided to put it back in the fridge
and test it again next year. I also found that Forte' vcfb lasts as
long. Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well.
Lloyd Erlick - 16 Feb 2006 16:08 GMT
On 16 Feb 2006 05:12:01 -0800,
"theyankeesnapper@aol.com"

>Rather than use this pack up, I've decided to put it back in the fridge
>and test it again next year.

February 16, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

What a great idea! I'm doing the same with a
batch of selenium  toner I made up in 2002.
As long as it's good, I'll keep it and keep
track of it. Something tells me selenium
toner will last longer than photosensitive
paper!

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Nicholas O. Lindan - 16 Feb 2006 18:59 GMT
> Something tells me selenium
> toner will last

KRST toner contains sodium/ammonium thiosulfate
which degrades with contact with oxygen.

KRST should slowly turn into plain-ole [non-rapid]
selenium-sulfide toner.  The sulfide toner should work
but will be slower.

Selenium will form compounds with organic chemicals, I don't
know how much gelatin etc. comes off in the toner or if
anything significant will happen.

Given time and use KRST throws a sludge, so obviously something
_is_ happening.

There are some _real_ chemists in this newsgroup...would
any like to comment.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
Fstop timer -  http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Lloyd Erlick - 17 Feb 2006 18:40 GMT
>KRST should slowly turn into plain-ole [non-rapid]
>selenium-sulfide toner.  The sulfide toner should work
>but will be slower.

February 17, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

In my case I probably would not notice. I use
it for ten minutes diluted 1+5. I wouldn't
throw it out ...

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Lloyd Erlick - 06 Mar 2006 12:38 GMT
>Given time and use KRST throws a sludge, so obviously something
>_is_ happening.
>
>There are some _real_ chemists in this newsgroup...would
>any like to comment.

March 6, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Indeed it does throw a sludge! And I have
found this sludge very mych reduced after
removing any acid in my process. I'd love to
hear comments from a real chemist...

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Nicholas O. Lindan - 16 Feb 2006 18:47 GMT
> Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well.

Oriental G graded has all turned to grade 1 after ~5 years
at room temperature.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
Fstop timer -  http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

John - 18 Feb 2006 15:42 GMT
>> Oriental's vcfb did not fair as well.
>
>Oriental G graded has all turned to grade 1 after ~5 years
>at room temperature.

Started as Grade 2, right ?

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
ellinger@umich.edu - 16 Feb 2006 20:13 GMT
>February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

<snip>

>At first I thought the paper had died,
>because the first few prints were flat and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>I did not make any change in my usual
>developer, either (i.e., no added bromide).

My experience is that MGWT loses contrast in room temperature storage.
(I often print for maximum contrast with a grade 5 filter.)  This is
backed up by a local photographer who is very exacting about process
and has done extensive tests.  He keeps MGWT in a freezer and removes
only enough sheets for a single printing session.

YMMV.

Chris Ellinger
Ann Arbor, MI
USA
Lloyd Erlick - 17 Feb 2006 18:40 GMT
>>February 15, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>Ann Arbor, MI
>USA

February 17, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

This is very interesting. I didn't do any
scientific observation. My paper could well
have lost contrast. Actually, it seemed to me
the numbers I had to enter on the light
controller were higher contrast than I would
have predicted from looking at the negative.
But all that is moot, since the paper
performs. I won't be storing quantities of
it, though.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

 
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