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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2006

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Setting up a new Darkroom

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G- Blank - 11 Feb 2006 01:18 GMT
Framing one of four walls tomorrow the others just need sheet
rock for them.

The short list of stuff to be inside;

4x5 Mxt Color Enlarger
10x10 Diffused Halogen B&W Enlarger
11 "  Table top Color print processor
Jobo Atl 3
Jobo CPP2
Arkay  RC1100 paper dryer
2 sinks

If anyone might be interested in seeing the floor plan I can put
it on my website as PDF.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

John - 11 Feb 2006 01:53 GMT
>Framing one of four walls tomorrow the others just need sheet
>rock for them.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>If anyone might be interested in seeing the floor plan I can put
>it on my website as PDF.

I would be. Also I'd find that 10X10 enlarger interesting. Any info on
that ?

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
G- Blank - 11 Feb 2006 19:58 GMT
> >If anyone might be interested in seeing the floor plan I can put
> >it on my website as PDF.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>          John - Photographer & Webmaster
>       www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net

I'll be more than glad to!  that is once I have the enlarger set up.
Meanwhile I'll post the floor plan in a day or so,....I'll
give you the link in a followup.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Mike King - 11 Feb 2006 17:48 GMT
If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
resists water better than standard "Sheetrock", it's not much more per sheet
and if your frugal (like I am) lay the sheets horizontally and use the
"greenboard" only in the lower course.

Signature

darkroommike

> Framing one of four walls tomorrow the others just need sheet
> rock for them.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> If anyone might be interested in seeing the floor plan I can put
> it on my website as PDF.
G- Blank - 11 Feb 2006 19:56 GMT
> If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
> type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
> resists water better than standard "Sheetrock", it's not much more per sheet
> and if your frugal (like I am) lay the sheets horizontally and use the
> "greenboard" only in the lower course.

Hey Mike thats a very good suggestion, by default I used some greenboard
against the walls that are exterior to the house's block walls-last
summer had some water leakage there and thought green board was called
for in those locations.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips - 14 Feb 2006 09:44 GMT
> > If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
> > type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> summer had some water leakage there and thought green board was called
> for in those locations.

Well, a vapor barrier and/or waterproofing
would seems just as efficacious if not more
so. Course I live in a very dry climate and
hanging plastic sheeting prior to framing
was enough...But I agree with the others about
the stereo, 'cept I prefer the 3 B's (Beethoven
Beatles, Bob Dylan...)
G- Blank - 14 Feb 2006 13:38 GMT
s.

> Well, a vapor barrier and/or waterproofing
> would seems just as efficacious if not more
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the stereo, 'cept I prefer the 3 B's (Beethoven
> Beatles, Bob Dylan...)

Those are pretty good musicians, I have pretty eclectic taste.
Sometimes I find music to be a distraction if its not in the
background,.......but I like:

Everything from Aerosmith & White Zombie to Andreas Vollenweider
& Enya. & Lots of others.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips - 16 Feb 2006 07:18 GMT
> s.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Sometimes I find music to be a distraction if its not in the
> background,.......but I like:

I'd say pure genius, though Dylan in particular
was/is rather eclectic. Mozart was actually less
a piano prodigy than his contemporary/competitor
Beethoven (little known fact...) and B was a far
better composer. But I like non-genius musicians
as well :)

As for background, I tend to make sure what's playing
will _last_ through the current processing, whether
film or print, so it doesn't go silent during fixing...

> Everything from Aerosmith & White Zombie to Andreas Vollenweider
> & Enya. & Lots of others.

Too many to name and would go way OT. But I might
mention Dvorak and Van Morrison :)
David Nebenzahl - 16 Feb 2006 07:57 GMT
Tom Phillips spake thus:

> I'd say pure genius, though Dylan in particular
> was/is rather eclectic. Mozart was actually less
> a piano prodigy than his contemporary/competitor
> Beethoven (little known fact...) and B was a far
> better composer.

Your breathtaking ignorance is now on public display, like a huge dust
blob on a print hanging in a gallery.

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

Tom Phillips - 16 Feb 2006 08:05 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Your breathtaking ignorance is now on public display, like a huge dust
> blob on a print hanging in a gallery.

Yeah, and you don't know sh.t about music, you
self described "chicken" blow hard...

As usual, you issue a meaningless and fact-less
personal attack rather than offer actual knowledge
(of which you have none (no wonder your email cites
"nobody@but.us.chickens")...

Speaking, as I listen, to B's 9th, which he wrote
while utterly deaf. And it is the opine of many
that B was as equal or greater to M as a piano
prodigy.

Or is it you knowledgeless understanding of more
modern musicality you spit your ignorance about?
David Nebenzahl - 16 Feb 2006 08:09 GMT
Tom Phillips spake thus:

>>Tom Phillips spake thus:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Yeah, and you don't know sh.t about music, you
> self described "chicken" blow hard...

And you know this how? You don't know anything about me, a.shole.

> As usual, you issue a meaningless and fact-less
> personal attack rather than offer actual knowledge
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> that B was as equal or greater to M as a piano
> prodigy.

OK, Tom, please do tell us how Beethoven was a "better composer" than
Mozart (that "little-known fact" you so tantalizingly dangled at the end
of that paragraph). Use all your musicological knowledge.

This oughta be good. I'm making popcorn.

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

Tom Phillips - 16 Feb 2006 08:17 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> And you know this how? You don't know anything about me, a.shole.

<chuckle...>

And you naturally think I _want_ to know you?

> > As usual, you issue a meaningless and fact-less
> > personal attack rather than offer actual knowledge
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Mozart (that "little-known fact" you so tantalizingly dangled at the end
> of that paragraph). Use all your musicological knowledge.

I said "better piano prodigy." Learn how to read.

Beyond that, oh ingnorant one, B is generally
considered the greatest composer (symphony-wise)
that ever lived. But you're just not well read or
musicaly educated enough to know that and would
rather argue about completely OT nonsense rather
than display your total ignorance about on-topic
photography matters...

> This oughta be good. I'm making popcorn.
>
> --
> Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

Popcorn, buck shot, same dif...
David Nebenzahl - 16 Feb 2006 19:56 GMT
Tom Phillips spake thus:

>>Tom Phillips spake thus:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> about completely OT nonsense rather than display your total ignorance
> about on-topic photography matters...

OK, let's see: first of all, just the raw numbers:
Mozart wrote about 50 symphonies (41 of which are numbered and more or
less well known), while Beethoven wrote 9. (Of course, Beethoven's were
generally on a larger scale than Mozart's, especially the 9th, which is
closer to an oratorio in structure.)
Piano concerti: Mozart wrote 25 to Beethoven's 4. Violin concerti: the
score is 6 to 1. This exhausts Beethoven's concerto output, but Mozart
also wrote concerti for just about every conceivable instrument:
bassoon, horn, clarinet and flute, as well as his /Sinfonia Concertante/
for violin and viola.
Operas: Beethoven wrote just one, Fidelio, while Mozart wrote many,
including the incomparable /Don Giovanni/.
Now, in chamber music, Beethoven's output approached Mozart's; Beethoven
wrote two sets of string quartets (the op. 18 and op. , totalling 16
quartets) to Mozart's 23, plus any number of smaller works, including
piano and violin sonatas (and to Beethoven goes the prize for the
exquisite /Romance/ for violin and orchestra).

But of course raw numbers don't count, and certainly can't be used to
mark one a "better composer" than another (an inane and fallacious
concept if there ever was one); in that case, Wolfie would clearly have
Ludwig whipped. Actually, the grand prize for symphonies goes to neither
one, of course: the winner would clearly be Haydn, with his 104+
symphonies, each on a scale similar to Mozart's. And did you know that
in his entire oeuvre that Haydn never repeated a single theme? Not once
in all those hundred-plus symphonies, most of which are regarded as the
crown jewels in the genre. So if I were awarding the prize, in this
category Franz Joseph would get it.

How about this concept: comparing Beethoven to Mozart is like, well,
like comparing apples to oranges. Even though there are remarkable
similarities between late Mozart and early Beethoven--who was still a
Classical composer, despite the unmistakeable "romantic" nature of his
music--they were two entirely different entities, both musically and
temperamentally. Beethoven, of course, was known for his "Titanic"
qualities: if you knew anything about music, you'd recognize this in the
rhythmically driving, almost maniacal passages from the last movement of
his 7th symphony. Such writing would have been unknown to Mozart, who
preferred to infuse his music with emotion in more subtle ways; witness
the dark quality of his 24th piano concerto, which exploits the quality
of the key of C minor to rival anything of Beethoven's, although on a
smaller scale and without the crashing bombast. Likewise his Great Mass
in C minor, a piece unfortunately overshadowed in our time to his (also
great) Requiem due to a certain motion picture; listen to the opening
Kyrie and tell me that Mozart wasn't every bit as emotionally compelling
as Beethoven in this piece, with the strings striving ever upward.

I'll wager I know a hell of a lot more about music than you'll ever
know. Speaking of Beethoven and Mozart: have you ever played the /Missa
Solemnis/? Mozart's /Exultate Jubilate/? The Beethoven symphonies,
including the 9th? Any of Mozart's symphonies? Do you know that there
are actually words to the 39th symphony?[1]

Not to mention Brahm's /German Requiem/, his 4 symphonies (interesting
how the numeric output of symphonies declines from Haydn to Mozart to
Beethoven to Brahms, isn't it?), the Berlioz /Requiem/, several of
Haydn's major works, including his /Missa in Tempore Bellis/ (Mass in
Time of War, a piece that ought to be played daily for those in power in
our age) and /Creation/, Handel's /Messiah/ (no "the", please), and a
hell of a lot more. Come back and argue when you've got that under your
belt.

So before you go shooting off your mouth uttering inanities about who's
a better composer, save yourself the embarassment. They're both great,
and that's as much as most folks who know about this stuff will say.

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

David Nebenzahl - 16 Feb 2006 20:02 GMT
David Nebenzahl spake thus:

[...]

> Now, in chamber music, Beethoven's output approached Mozart's; Beethoven
> wrote two sets of string quartets (the op. 18 and op. , totalling 16

That should be op. 18, op. 59, op. 74 & op. 95.

> I'll wager I know a hell of a lot more about music than you'll ever
> know. Speaking of Beethoven and Mozart: have you ever played the /Missa
> Solemnis/? Mozart's /Exultate Jubilate/? The Beethoven symphonies,
> including the 9th? Any of Mozart's symphonies? Do you know that there
> are actually words to the 39th symphony?[1]

Forgot to include these:

  "It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's Mozart ..."

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

UC - 16 Feb 2006 20:27 GMT
> So before you go shooting off your mouth uttering inanities about who's
> a better composer, save yourself the embarassment. They're both great,
> and that's as much as most folks who know about this stuff will say.

Both were good composers, but I just don't care for Mozart at all. Not
enough weight to it.

Of course, I also like Yello...(from Zurich, I believe)

http://www.yello.ch/

http://www.80sretromusic.com/biography/Y/yello.htm

Great composers!

> --
> Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
David Nebenzahl - 16 Feb 2006 21:37 GMT
UC spake thus:

>> So before you go shooting off your mouth uttering inanities about
>> who's a better composer, save yourself the embarassment. They're
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Both were good composers, but I just don't care for Mozart at all. Not
> enough weight to it.

Well, you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about either.

Go listen to the opening of Mozart's /Great Mass in C minor/ for one;
then try the overture to /Don Giovanni/ for size, then tell me there's
"not enough weight to it". And you want modern music--sounds that would
leapfrog Beethoven practically straight into Schönberg--then check out
his "Dissonant" quartet.

You excoriate others for insufficient knowledge of Art, then write the
most sophomoric comments yourself. Go figure.

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

UC - 16 Feb 2006 21:51 GMT
I must confess I have not listened to Mozart very much.

What I HAVE heard of it does not have much weight.'

I did buy a copy of a requiem (can't recall whose it was, now, though),
and did not like it.

Let's just say this: I like the Romantics much more than the
Classicalists.

> UC spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> You excoriate others for insufficient knowledge of Art, then write the
> most sophomoric comments yourself. Go figure.

I don't claim to be an art expert. My background is philosophy.

> --
> Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
Tom Phillips - 17 Feb 2006 06:52 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> OK, let's see: first of all, just the raw numbers:

No, let's not. This is typically OT and I ain't
biting or reading. The greatest symphony (as
generally considered) ever written is either B's
5th or the 9th. Sorry. No contest.

Suffice it to say both were great musicians and
great composers. I was refering to the fact that
in 1787 when Beethoven was performing in Vienna
(displaying a "masterful" skill at improvisation),
Mozart commented: "Keep your eyes on him. Someday
he will make a stir in the world." Haydn was also
in Vienna at the time.

I've read many opinions (not your's of course, but
of those whose profession actually is music...)
that Beethoven was considered as great a young and
promising piano talent as Mozart ever was. Sorry, I
know you don't like facts...

And I'm also not the one shooting one's mouth off.
Your greatest talent is simply dragging people down
to your level in the form of useless, vulgar banter.
Stuff which has nothing to do with photography. So
play whatever you like in your darkroom and feel
free to consider yourself a great depository of
musical knowledge. I was simply conversing with Greg
about what music I preferred, and it ain't opera.
Give me a symphony any day...

> Mozart wrote about 50 symphonies (41 of which are numbered and more or
> less well known), while Beethoven wrote 9. (Of course, Beethoven's were
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
David Nebenzahl - 17 Feb 2006 09:00 GMT
Tom Phillips spake thus:

>> OK, let's see: first of all, just the raw numbers:
>
> No, let's not. This is typically OT and I ain't biting or reading.

Oh, I get it; when *you* want to take up an "OT" topic, it's OK, but
when I ("typically", mind you) do it, it's suddenly not kosher.

> The greatest symphony (as generally considered) ever written is
> either B's 5th or the 9th. Sorry. No contest.

I see; you have it on whose authority? And Brahms' 1st isn't even in the
running, right? Now if you had said "In my opinion, the greatest
symphony ever written is ", that would be OK, but to invoke unnamed
authorities ("generally considered"), that's quite another matter. (Of
course, to the unwashed masses, Beethoven's 5th and (maybe) 9th are the
only symphonies they're able to name or recognize, so maybe you're
confusing "greatest" with "most popular". Whatever.)

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

UC - 17 Feb 2006 13:42 GMT
Mahler's 5th has some nice tunes in it. he copied the beginning 4-note
theme idea from Ludwig B.

I like Tchaikovsky's 4, 5, and 6 too. The performances by Abbado are
superb.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GHU/104-1744125-0444702?v=glance&n=5174

> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
David Nebenzahl - 17 Feb 2006 22:51 GMT
UC spake thus:

> Mahler's 5th has some nice tunes in it. he copied the beginning 4-note
> theme idea from Ludwig B.
>
> I like Tchaikovsky's 4, 5, and 6 too. The performances by Abbado are
> superb.

Yes, everyone knows 4-6, but almost nobody listens to (or plays, for
that matter), 1-3. Pity, since there's such good music there (especially
the "Little Russian", the 2nd, and "Winter Dreams", no. 1).

And for some reason, only the odd-numbered Beethoven symphonies are
popularly known, with the exception of the "Pastoral", no. 6. My own
favorite is the 8th, which is pure bombastic Beethoven from the get-go.

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

UC - 17 Feb 2006 22:53 GMT
> UC spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> that matter), 1-3. Pity, since there's such good music there (especially
> the "Little Russian", the 2nd, and "Winter Dreams", no. 1).

I think I owned them on LP at one time, but they apparently did not
impress me very much. I didn't replace them on CD when I sold my 1200
LPs..

> And for some reason, only the odd-numbered Beethoven symphonies are
> popularly known, with the exception of the "Pastoral", no. 6. My own
> favorite is the 8th, which is pure bombastic Beethoven from the get-go.

Yup.

> --
> Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
John - 18 Feb 2006 15:39 GMT
>My own
>favorite is the 8th, which is pure bombastic Beethoven from the get-go.

I'm a Steppenwolf fan personally   ;>)

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
David Nebenzahl - 18 Feb 2006 19:50 GMT
John spake thus:

>> My own favorite is the 8th, which is pure bombastic Beethoven from
>> the get-go.
>
> I'm a Steppenwolf fan personally   ;>)

Goddamn the pusher man, eh?

Signature

Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.

- Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006

John - 20 Feb 2006 04:57 GMT
>> I'm a Steppenwolf fan personally   ;>)
>
>Goddamn the pusher man, eh?

I was thinkin' along the lines of Born To Be Wild actually ;>)

http://www.xs750.net/mefizzer.html

Tops around 180 but I haven't gotten over 150. Yet.

==
John S. Douglas, Photographer
 http://www.puresilver.org
Tom Phillips - 21 Feb 2006 08:28 GMT
> >> I'm a Steppenwolf fan personally   ;>)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Tops around 180 but I haven't gotten over 150. Yet.

Well, not _quite_ Fonda's chopper (which was
actually wrecked during filming...)

But your's is without doubt a lot more
comfortable on the highway :)
Dana H. Myers - 21 Feb 2006 16:48 GMT
>>> I'm a Steppenwolf fan personally   ;>)
>> Goddamn the pusher man, eh?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Tops around 180 but I haven't gotten over 150. Yet.

I had a Honda V65 Sabre back in the 1980s, which was an 1100cc
V-4 version of the unfaired UJM.  One time, on Interstate out near, um,
nowhere, I had it at an indicated 150MPH.  Without a fairing, it
wasn't terribly comfortable, my helmet was trying to pull off of
my head.  I never got around to buying a fairing and seeing how
over 150 it would do...

My GSX-R750 was more comfortable at speed - here in turn 3 of the
big track at Willow Springs (there was no little track back then):

http://k6jq.home.comcast.net/pics/wsgsx.jpg

Fun stuff, eh.

Dana
Tom Phillips - 17 Feb 2006 06:54 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> OK, let's see: first of all, just the raw numbers:

No, let's not. This is typically OT and I ain't
biting or reading. The greatest symphony (as
generally considered) ever written is either B's
5th or the 9th. Sorry. No contest (although I
tend to prefer the 3rd.)

Suffice it to say both were great musicians and
great composers. I was referring to the fact that
in 1787 when Beethoven was performing in Vienna
(displaying a "masterful" skill at improvisation),
Mozart commented: "Keep your eyes on him. Someday
he will make a stir in the world." Haydn was also
in Vienna at the time.

I've read many opinions (not your's of course, but
of those whose profession actually is music...)
that Beethoven was considered as great a young and
promising piano talent as Mozart ever was. Sorry, I
know you don't like facts...

And I'm also not the one shooting one's mouth off.
Your greatest talent is simply dragging people down
to your level in the form of useless, vulgar banter.
Stuff which has nothing to do with photography. So
play whatever you like in your darkroom and feel
free to consider yourself a great depository of
musical knowledge. I was simply conversing with Greg
about what music I preferred in _my_ darkroom, not
yours, and it ain't opera. Give me a symphony any day...

> Mozart wrote about 50 symphonies (41 of which are numbered and more or
> less well known), while Beethoven wrote 9. (Of course, Beethoven's were
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
Tom Phillips - 16 Feb 2006 08:09 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Your breathtaking ignorance is now on public display, like a huge dust
> blob on a print hanging in a gallery.

Yeah, and you don't know sh.t about music, you
self described "chicken" blow hard...

As usual, you issue a meaningless and fact-less
personal attack rather than offer actual knowledge
(of which you have none (no wonder your email cites
"nobody@but.us.chickens")...

Speaking, as I listen, to B's 9th, which he wrote
while utterly deaf. And it is the opine of many
that B was as equal or greater to M as a piano
prodigy. Or is it your knowledgeless understanding
of more modern musicality (on top of art) you spit
your ignorance out about?

BTW, do you have a job, that you spend night and
day here 7 days a week? Or are you an insomniac --
drunk most nights trying to find rest?
UC - 16 Feb 2006 14:14 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Your breathtaking ignorance is now on public display, like a huge dust
> blob on a print hanging in a gallery.

I'd have to agree that Mozart's compositions were a bit light-weight.
Too dainty for my taste. I like Brahms, Mahler, Beethoven, Wagner, etc.
I don't own any Mozart recordings.

Mozart wrote nothing remotely as good as some of Wagner's best
moments.Of course, Wagner wrote a lot of noise, too.

> --
> Every American is full of Cheney's buckshot.
>
> - Sign on the Grand-Lake Theater, Oakland, CA, Feb. 14, 2006
UC - 16 Feb 2006 14:08 GMT
> s.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Everything from Aerosmith & White Zombie to Andreas Vollenweider
> & Enya. & Lots of others.

That explains a lot.

> --
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> greg_____photo(dot)com
John - 11 Feb 2006 21:26 GMT
>If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
>type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
>resists water better than standard "Sheetrock", it's not much more per sheet
>and if your frugal (like I am) lay the sheets horizontally and use the
>"greenboard" only in the lower course.

Good advice. I'm doing this in all of the rooms in our home as we're
insultaing and rewiring the whole home. It's amazing how damp the soil
is here in Tennessee. There are obvious water signs inside every wall
I've looked in so far.

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
UC - 11 Feb 2006 21:35 GMT
> If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
> type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
> resists water better than standard "Sheetrock", it's not much more per sheet
> and if your frugal (like I am) lay the sheets horizontally and use the
> "greenboard" only in the lower course.

You realize you don't need to make the darkroom anything like a real
room. You could use just plain cardboard and 2x4's. All it has to do is
to stop light. I use a corner of a basement that is sealed off.

> --
> darkroommike
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >
> > greg_____photo(dot)com
Ken Hart - 12 Feb 2006 01:41 GMT
>> If you haven't yet bought your drywall look for the more water resistant
>> type, mine is green in color, used a lot for a ceramic tile backer it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> room. You could use just plain cardboard and 2x4's. All it has to do is
> to stop light. I use a corner of a basement that is sealed off.

Yeah, but...
In my teenage years, my darkroom was in the old root cellar of the house.
There ain't nothin' like a real live temperature controlled, low dust,
spacious room filled with dark and a good stereo system!

(Actually, if you are going to use ceramic tile, you need to use cement
board- similar to drywall, but a water_proof_ product available in 3'x5'
sheets. Green sheetrock is water _resistant_.)

Signature

Ken Hart
kwhart@aec.nu

John - 12 Feb 2006 05:22 GMT
>Yeah, but...
>In my teenage years, my darkroom was in the old root cellar of the house.
>There ain't nothin' like a real live temperature controlled, low dust,
>spacious room filled with dark and a good stereo system!

Amen ! I spent so much time in the dark, I became quite adept at
hitting the remote control for my stereo on the fly. Had 2 floor
standing towers and six speakers hanging from the ceiling. Listened to
everything from Accept to ZZ Top, Bach to Wagner and Aaron Tippon to
Vince Gill. Whatever it took to drown out the persisting sound of
running water  ;>)

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Pieter Litchfield - 12 Feb 2006 14:37 GMT
Agreed!  And let me add that my personal "must haves" in my darkroom
building were (1) a proper long sink (2) an accurate and repeatable enlarger
timer (3) a thermostatic valve for constant water temperature and (4) clean
air.  I have a little B&W only darkroom in my basement that allows me to be
very productive by controlling variables like exposure times and
temperatures so I don't have to constantly fix errors caused by drifting
values.

>>Yeah, but...
>>In my teenage years, my darkroom was in the old root cellar of the house.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>         John - Photographer & Webmaster
>      www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net 
G- Blank - 12 Feb 2006 15:10 GMT
> > You realize you don't need to make the darkroom anything like a real
> > room. You could use just plain cardboard and 2x4's. All it has to do is
> > to stop light. I use a corner of a basement that is sealed off.

> Yeah, but...
> In my teenage years, my darkroom was in the old root cellar of the house.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> board- similar to drywall, but a water_proof_ product available in 3'x5'
> sheets. Green sheetrock is water _resistant_.)

I might this is my dwelling therefore I want a permanent room, I've seen
people make tear down darkrooms out of plastic trash bags. Since I do
a lot of of darkroom work as earns me a fair portion of my business
I want it to be permanent.

I think I am a fairly competent carpenter, this last year so far I have
ripped all the carpets out of the house, had the hardwood floors
refinished, and I personally refurbished the bathroom. I bashed out the
walls around the tub and demolished the old yucky cast iron tub. Put a
new tub in, tiled around it, ripped down existing plastic yucky tile
which went half way up all the walls and reinstalled wainscoting, a new
crapper, and a new pedestal sink,....and new floor tile& paint.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

UC - 12 Feb 2006 21:00 GMT
I'm just saying you don't need sheet rock walls. You can build the
frame and door and everything with wood, but make the 'walls' out of
light, cheap materials, even cardboard. It just has to be light-tight,
taht's all.

> > > You realize you don't need to make the darkroom anything like a real
> > > room. You could use just plain cardboard and 2x4's. All it has to do is
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> greg_____photo(dot)com
otzi - 12 Feb 2006 22:06 GMT
> I'm just saying you don't need sheet rock walls. You can build the
> frame and door and everything with wood, but make the 'walls' out of
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>>
>> greg_____photo(dot)com

Try lightish ply.  Then you can nail, glue, somehow afix shelving or other
wall fixtures.  It's also easy to put in holes for swithes etc.

Signature

Otzi

G- Blank - 12 Feb 2006 23:41 GMT
> Try lightish ply.  Then you can nail, glue, somehow afix shelving or other
> wall fixtures.  It's also easy to put in holes for swithes etc.

Too late; sheetrock installed yesterday :) Cousin the electrician
wired all the outlets, brother the "plumber" will rig the sinks and
water outlets in a week or so.

How does a fourteen by fourteen foot room sound?

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

John - 12 Feb 2006 23:47 GMT
>> Try lightish ply.  Then you can nail, glue, somehow afix shelving or other
>> wall fixtures.  It's also easy to put in holes for swithes etc.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>How does a fourteen by fourteen foot room sound?

Adequate. Depends on how much room that 10X10 takes up. My D138 takes
up about 16 sq.ft. being 4'x4'. Add in tables, bookshelves, stereo,
sink(s), cabinets and so forth and my 15X15 is just adequate. Remember
that I don't print larger than 11X14 anymore.

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Mike King - 19 Feb 2006 13:58 GMT
Too wide!  My darkroom is 9x14 and I wish it was 8x14, over the years all
those extra steps from the dryside to the wetside have really added up. ;)
It's nice to have the space.

Signature

darkroommike

> > Try lightish ply.  Then you can nail, glue, somehow afix shelving or other
> > wall fixtures.  It's also easy to put in holes for swithes etc.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> How does a fourteen by fourteen foot room sound?
Lloyd Erlick - 19 Feb 2006 18:01 GMT
>over the years all
>those extra steps from the dryside to the wetside have really added up. ;)
>It's nice to have the space.

February 19, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Well, you've only been doing something I had
to enforce upon myself recently.

I made it a rule that I had to rise from my
chair to approach the scanner. I'm thinking
of adding a bow and maybe a scrape. Otherwise
my level of exercise was just *too* low. I
think I should add a little meandering line I
have to follow on the floor to get from dry
side to wet side ...

Just what must I do for the privilege of
seeing my belt buckle when I get dressed? I
realize two hundred situps a week is a start
... I'm a little unclear about how this pork
came to become attached to my slender frame
... did anyone notice while I was distracted?

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Tom Gardner - 13 Feb 2006 01:03 GMT
Try and make it spider proof!

> Framing one of four walls tomorrow the others just need sheet
> rock for them.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> If anyone might be interested in seeing the floor plan I can put
> it on my website as PDF.
John - 13 Feb 2006 03:14 GMT
>Try and make it spider proof!

Only in the arctic !

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Tom Phillips - 14 Feb 2006 09:31 GMT
> >Try and make it spider proof!
>
> Only in the arctic !

Nope. Arachnids can not only exist but
thrive in arctic environments. Amazingly
I've seen them crawling around at 14,000
ft plus. Scorpions can even survive burial
in Greenland ice. I find them in my rather
well sealed darkroom all the time (dead,
since there's no other arthropods to live
on that I've ever seen there.)
 
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