Aged developer and coarse grain?

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Ralf R. Radermacher - 06 Feb 2006 10:38 GMT

Hi all,

I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been well beyond
their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford DD-X from a
bottle that was open for over a year, although under Protectan. The
developer appeared perfectly normal.

The negs look OK at first sight. Contrast is fine and so is base
density. But the grain appears a lot coarser than what one would expect
from Delta 100.

Any explanation?

Ralf

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Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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Mike - 07 Feb 2006 17:22 GMT

Ralf,

Thats interesting...I just developed a roll of APX400 in some old Ilford
DD-X that has sat on my shelf for a long time. Contrast and development
was fine but I thought the grain was excessively large. I had assumed I
just overdeveloped it (contrast was a bit excessive in some frames), but
your experience makes me question whether or not old DD-X does result in
large grain.

--Mike

> I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been well beyond
> their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford DD-X from a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Ralf

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UC - 07 Feb 2006 17:50 GMT

Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
it ages, for a variety of reasons.

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
> Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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bjw@mambo.ucolick.org - 09 Feb 2006 18:45 GMT

> Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
> it ages, for a variety of reasons.

What mechanism causes this? Physical or chemical changes in
the emulsion? Do these apply to unexposed film, to exposed film
with a latent image, or both?

Just curious.

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UC - 09 Feb 2006 19:55 GMT

The smallest grains gradually lose sensitivity in greater proportion,
leaving only the largest ones as active.

Also, environmental (gamma) radiation affects the larger grains more.

> > Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
> > it ages, for a variety of reasons.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Just curious.

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UC - 09 Feb 2006 19:58 GMT

> > Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
> > it ages, for a variety of reasons.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Just curious.

Aagin:

Loss of sensitivity, affects the smallest grains the most. Radiation
affects both exposed and unexposed film.

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Richard Knoppow - 08 Feb 2006 01:29 GMT

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ralf

Have you isolated this by trying another film or
another developer? DDX is similar to Microphen and should
produce similar grain. Microphen, DDX, T-Max, and similar
developers produce somewhat coarser grain than D-76.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

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John - 11 Feb 2006 02:40 GMT

>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Ralf

Both the age of the film and the developer can certainly work
hand-in-hand to cause this. Imagine that some of the sulfite in the
developer is oxidized and no longer reduces granularity. Also the film
may not show a particularly high base fog level however I think if you
measured it with a densitometer that you would find that it is
significantly higher than normal. Higher base fog levels can lead to
grain clumping or popping. I've seen this happen with several films
the worst being a roll of 35mm PXP which was given to me by a local
lab who evidently had several out of date boxes laying around. I
developed it in Microphen in an attempt to minimize speed loss however
the grain was so bad that I couldn't accept the quality of the images
any bigger than 4X6".

==
John - Photographer & Webmaster
www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net

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