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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / January 2006

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film speed test ring around

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gphickey@yahoo.com - 22 Jan 2006 20:46 GMT
Can someone tell me how to do this test?  Thanks I'm using Ilford HP5+
and Kodak Xtol
g
UC - 23 Jan 2006 14:09 GMT
Shoot four rolls of film

Bracket by shutter speed 1/1000, 1/500, 1/250, all at f/8 or so on a
cloudless day. Use a scene that has full range of colors from open
shade to white surfaces. A street with houses will suffice. Develoop
the four rolls at normal, -10%, -20%, and -30%.

Make prints.

Start with grade 3 paper if you are using roll film. The best one to
use is Ilford Galerie. DO NOT use VC paper, because you have no idea
what the actual grade is. Print the most promising negatives on grade 3
paper, switching around the various rolls until you get a good print
with a full range of tones and detail in the highlight and shadow
areas. I find that 1/500 @ f/8 is usually the best at my latitude (40
N) in the summer (mid-morning). Because various camera lenses,
enlraging lenses and enlarger illumination systems affect the contrast,
you must determine the contrast FIRST. When you havve done this, the
speed will be easy to determine.

Simply compare the meter reading with the exposure used for the best
negative. If you find, as most do, that adding 1/2 to 1 stop improves
the image quality, then simply subtract 1/2 to 1 stop from the EI. If
the ISO is 400 and you find that 1/2 stop more is best, then use EI
250/320. Id 1 stop more is best, use EI 200. You will NOT find that
your speed is higher than ISO.

> Can someone tell me how to do this test?  Thanks I'm using Ilford HP5+
> and Kodak Xtol
> g
Richard Knoppow - 23 Jan 2006 16:00 GMT
> Can someone tell me how to do this test?  Thanks I'm using
> Ilford HP5+
> and Kodak Xtol
> g

 The usual ring around requires 9 exposures. One each of
three strips there are three exposures, one at one stop
under the rated speed, one at the rated speed, one at one
stop over the rated speed. Three such strips are shot and
developed to get three contrast grades, one at the
manufacturer's recommended amount of time, one for about 33%
less and one for about 33% more. For tabular grain films the
variation will be around 20% to 25% for a one grade contrast
change.
 Remember that exposure controls overall density but has
little effect on contrast once the exposure is above a
certain minimum. Development time affects both contrast and
overall density but mostly contrast.
  Print on "normal" grade paper and choose the print with
best tone rendition.
  In general, once the exposure is above the point where
shadow detail is well up on the toe of the film curve
increased exposure will make little difference in tone
reproduction, at least until very high values are reached.
There is some advantage to keeping exposure on the minimum
side, especially for small format film. Grain and effects
which limit sharpness increase with density so the least
dense negative which yeilds good tone rendition is desirable
to maximize sharpness and minimize grain.
  For their own films Kodak and Ilford have somewhat
different contrast aim points in their development charts.
Kodak speeds and development times are based on a contrast
which is right for diffusion enlargers and contact printing.
Ilford bases its speed and development recommendations on a
compromise value of contrast midway between that needed for
diffusion enlargers and that needed for condenser enlargers,
on average about a one grade difference. Negatives which are
right for one type of enlarger will print fine on the other
with a one grade change in paper contrast.
  While condenser enlargers tend to pick up blemishes more
than diffusion enlargers, for the same negative printed on
both the lower contrast paper needed for the condenser
enlarger tends to knock them down again.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

UC - 23 Jan 2006 16:09 GMT
Richard:

This was the 'old' way. I have refined that technique given my
experience with Ilford, Kodak, and Fuji films, and Ilford and Paterson
developers. No development recommedations have ever failed to be too
long for condesners. They are ALWAYS too long. Speeds are ALWAYS too
high.

David Vestal in this month's issue of Photo Techniques says essentially
the same thing. He has used condensers exclusively since 1948, he says.

You may want to consult the following recommended times at digital
truth for Paterson developers:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/chart/scarpitti-paterson.html

> > Can someone tell me how to do this test?  Thanks I'm using
> > Ilford HP5+
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@ix.netcom.com
UC - 23 Jan 2006 16:54 GMT
My tests show that when Paterson recommends 1+9 for 10 minutes, I find
1+14 for 8 minutes is about right.

> Richard:
>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> > Los Angeles, CA, USA
> > dickburk@ix.netcom.com
gphickey@yahoo.com - 23 Jan 2006 21:24 GMT
Thanks everyone for your responses. I mix Xtol 1:1 and with HP5+
(EI400) at Kodak's reccomended 12 minutes  (4 gentle turns agitation
each minute) get two much contrast. I use a diffusion enlarger (dial in
filters) and get good prints with good shadow detail at 12 minutes and
better at 10 minutes. My big problem since I'm shooting street pix in
Seattle's urban canyons is that frequently my sky is too dense and
prints white-even with a Y8 filter. So I'll run these tests and see
what happens.

I need the film speed and want to control the neg quality with
development as opposed to exposure rating. I've considered using a Y8
filter and exposing at EI800 but developing for EI 400 to reduce the
sky density and seeing how I fare on shadow detail. But since Seattle's
sky at this time of year is light gray not blue I don't think the Y8
filter will have any effect anyway.  Any thoughts?

George
UC - 23 Jan 2006 21:37 GMT
You MUST calibrate your film and enlarger to a graded paper FIRST. It
is impossible to determine the actual contrast of a VC paper without a
reference. For 35mm work, it has been demonstrated that aiming for
grade 3 provides finer grain than aiming for grade 2.[1] So, get some
grade 3 paper (Galerie grade 3 is my reference) and develop your
typical sunny-day negatives fit that paper. Don't pay any attention to
what your EI is. Go for the quality, and let the numbers fall where
they may. Then, once you have calibrated your negatives to grade 3
Galerie, you can run some tests with VC paper to get as close a match
as you can. I find that in my enlarger, printing on Ilford Multigrade
IV, that Ilford filter 2 1/2 closely matches Galerie grade 3.

[1] See Bill Troop and Steve Anchell's book for the latest affirmation
of this.

gphic...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your responses. I mix Xtol 1:1 and with HP5+
> (EI400) at Kodak's reccomended 12 minutes  (4 gentle turns agitation
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> George
Richard Knoppow - 25 Jan 2006 02:03 GMT
> Thanks everyone for your responses. I mix Xtol 1:1 and
> with HP5+
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> George

    I think you are going to have to burn in the skys. What
is happening is that, at the exposure necessary for the
relatively dark street, the sky is very overexposed. A red
filter might darken them but will cut way down on the light
available for the shadowed areas.
    Reducing the exposure will just make things worse
because there will be less detail in the shadow areas. It
would be better to go the other way, that is, increase
exposure and reduce development to reduce overall contrast.
Try tests at EI-200 and about 30% less development time. I
think even with this you are going to have to burn in the
sky but it will insure you have something to work with in
both shadow and highlight areas.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

gphickey@yahoo.com - 25 Jan 2006 20:17 GMT
Thanks again everyone. I'll tun some tests. I'm aware that the problem
is too much contrast range between the dark streets and the sky. Plus
in the winter here in Seattle the sky is ofen a light gray which is
almost white. I'll run some tests and see what works best. the problem
with a red filter IMHO besides the loss of speed is it makes peoples
lips too light in tone. One adjustment I've made is simply framing
shots so the sky is not in the frame. Ahhhh photography, to get
something you always have to give something up.

G

>      I think you are going to have to burn in the skys. What
> is happening is that, at the exposure necessary for the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@ix.netcom.com
 
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