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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2006

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enlarger question

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Gunnar Mallon - 01 Jan 2006 23:19 GMT
Hi all,

we have a couple of very bad enlargers in our university society
darkroom. i am looking to buy new gear now. what would you say is more
important lenses or enlarger? how does the enlarger matter? is it not
just a bit of metal that passes light through the negative onto the lens?

Many thanks,
Gunnar
Bob  AZ - 01 Jan 2006 23:38 GMT
Gunnar

Depending on the size of the enlarger but contact classis-enlargers.com
. He sells rebuilt Omega D2s. Rebuilt to better than Omega ever built
them. They will last forever.

Lenses are biggies.

Bob  AZ
David Nebenzahl - 02 Jan 2006 00:02 GMT
Gunnar Mallon spake thus:

> Hi all,
>
> we have a couple of very bad enlargers in our university society
> darkroom. i am looking to buy new gear now. what would you say is more
> important lenses or enlarger? how does the enlarger matter? is it not
> just a bit of metal that passes light through the negative onto the lens?

I'll take a crack at this and say the lens is most important.

As you suspect, the enlarger is basically just several hunks o'metal
that support the lens, negative, lamp, condenser, etc., and hold them in
alignment. Nothing rocket-science about it: basically, the elements in
the optical path (light, condenser, film and lens) need to be in a
straight line with the components aligned perpendicularly to the light path.

So what a guy would want is a solidly-constructed unit which can be
accurately aligned. Most enlargers that are above the El Cheapo class
fulfill these basic requirements. And of course, with the Great Takeover
of Digital Photography, enlargers are much cheaper and easier to acquire.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Creeker - 02 Jan 2006 01:04 GMT
Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the peopel
get lazy and selfish.

> Gunnar Mallon spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> fulfill these basic requirements. And of course, with the Great Takeover
> of Digital Photography, enlargers are much cheaper and easier to acquire.
David Nebenzahl - 02 Jan 2006 01:35 GMT
Creeker spake thus [regarding sig]:

> Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the peopel
> get lazy and selfish.

No disagreement from this quarter.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

John - 02 Jan 2006 10:24 GMT
> Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the peopel
> get lazy and selfish.

Could someone point me to a Democratic government ? I don't remember
ever seeing one.

JD
David Nebenzahl - 02 Jan 2006 20:26 GMT
John spake thus:

>> Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the
>> peopel get lazy and selfish.
>
> Could someone point me to a Democratic government ? I don't remember
> ever seeing one.

Do you mean democratic or Democratic?

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

John - 03 Jan 2006 07:20 GMT
> John spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Do you mean democratic or Democratic?

I'd be happy to have both ! Someone in office again with some fiscal
responsibility would be a good start.

Note that to the best of my knowledge the last truly democratic
government existed in Athens.

JD
Tom Phillips - 03 Jan 2006 22:09 GMT
> > John spake thus:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Note that to the best of my knowledge the last truly democratic
> government existed in Athens.

You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
without consent and suspending habeas corpus?

You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
G- Blank - 03 Jan 2006 22:46 GMT
> You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
> by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
> without consent and suspending habeas corpus?
>
> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
adm, but the media has really played this up. If anyone believes
the government has not done this kind of stuff prior they are nuts.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

UC - 03 Jan 2006 22:54 GMT
> > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
> > by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
> > without consent and suspending habeas corpus?

Shoulda been around in Lincoln's day...

> > You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

Unlike liberal Democrats, they're not STUPID, that's for sure...

> As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
> adm, but the media has really played this up. If anyone believes
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> greg_____photo(dot)com
Tom Phillips - 03 Jan 2006 23:09 GMT
> > > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Unlike liberal Democrats, they're not STUPID, that's for sure...

Yeah...they're also not honest. Lincoln at least was honest
besides being a liberal...
Tom Phillips - 03 Jan 2006 23:12 GMT
> > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
> adm, but the media has really played this up.

The media should play it up. Dubya is far worse
than we imagine...

> If anyone believes
> the government has not done this kind of stuff prior they are nuts.

Yeah but not since J. Edgar or Nixon...
John - 05 Jan 2006 06:27 GMT
> The media should play it up. Dubya is far worse
> than we imagine...

As was his father.

"Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES!"

The debt as of 12:22AM CST

    $ 8,205,979.589,520.61

Yes, that's eigh trillion, two hundered five billion, nine hundred
seventy nine million, five hundred eighty nine thousand, five hundred
twenty dollars and sixty one cents,

Your share of the debt as an American citizen :

    $ 27,521.65

Will that be cash check or the future of your country ?

JD
John - 05 Jan 2006 06:33 GMT
>> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
>
> As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
> adm, but the media has really played this up. If anyone believes
> the government has not done this kind of stuff prior they are nuts.

I would say "willfully ignorant". But I must say that I don't think the
Democrats are as guilty of these abuses as the Republicans.

JD
Tom Phillips - 05 Jan 2006 07:20 GMT
> >> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I would say "willfully ignorant". But I must say that I don't think the
> Democrats are as guilty of these abuses as the Republicans.

The current spying is unprecedented in it's unbridled
nature, however, due to the Patriot Act. The republican
party IMO is dead, since it no longer represents or
offers candidates who abhor big government or government
abuses. Rather than conservative, it a party of special
interests...
Frank Pittel - 09 Jan 2006 19:11 GMT
: > >> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
: > >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
: > I would say "willfully ignorant". But I must say that I don't think the
: > Democrats are as guilty of these abuses as the Republicans.

: The current spying is unprecedented in it's unbridled
: nature, however, due to the Patriot Act. The republican
: party IMO is dead, since it no longer represents or
: offers candidates who abhor big government or government
: abuses. Rather than conservative, it a party of special
: interests...

To me the Republican party is irrelevant. I am a conservative and will vote
for the most conservative candidate running in a given election. For the record
I don't believe that Bush is a conservative and I didn't vote for him in the 2000
primary. My vote went to the only true conservative running. Unfortunately there are
far to many non-conservatives in the Republican party.
Signature


-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

Tom Phillips - 14 Jan 2006 05:09 GMT
> : > >> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
> : > >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> primary. My vote went to the only true conservative running. Unfortunately there are
> far to many non-conservatives in the Republican party.

A true U.S. conservative is one who espouses the
liberties illuminated in the Bill of Rights and
their legitimate expansion.

otherwise they're fascist, not conservative...
Cheesehead - 14 Jan 2006 13:15 GMT
Makes sense.  And so we understand the whole scheme of things going on
these days ...
What does one term those who amend the constraints, rights, and
liberties
of the Constitution, but do so from the vantage point of some social
dialectic?

Collin
Frank Pittel - 04 Jan 2006 11:18 GMT
: > > John spake thus:
: > >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
: > Note that to the best of my knowledge the last truly democratic
: > government existed in Athens.

: You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
: While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
: by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
: without consent and suspending habeas corpus?

: You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
is not now and never has been a democracy.
Signature


-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

Tom Phillips - 05 Jan 2006 02:10 GMT
> : > > John spake thus:
> : > >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
> is not now and never has been a democracy.

I think that's the point. Even Lincoln suspended habeas
corpus and had reporteers jailed who criticized his
war strategy. I don't approve, but it depends on one's
definition of democracy. We've have a democratic
republic, as opposed to a pure democracy. One has
to remember the Constitution was set up by and large
as a compromise between the New England town meeting
style of government and the aristocratic Southern
ruling class who were afraid of true democracy.
Frank Pittel - 09 Jan 2006 19:03 GMT
: > : > > John spake thus:
: > : > >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
: > Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: > is not now and never has been a democracy.

: I think that's the point. Even Lincoln suspended habeas
: corpus and had reporteers jailed who criticized his
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: style of government and the aristocratic Southern
: ruling class who were afraid of true democracy.

More likely the founding fathers looked to the ancient Greek and Roman
systems of government and realized that in a country of any significant
size (either geographic and population) a true democracy would be unworkable.

The closest to a workable democratic system is and was a republic in which the
representatives were democratically elected.
Signature


-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

Tom Phillips - 14 Jan 2006 05:12 GMT
> : > : > > John spake thus:
> : > : > >
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> systems of government and realized that in a country of any significant
> size (either geographic and population) a true democracy would be unworkable.

Nope. One of the major architects of the Constitution
(Franklin) based his view of American government on the
Iroquois confederacy, a purley native American government.
The fact is, the Constitution is a political compromise
between a aristocratic monarchy and a democracy.

The Romans had no real democracy or republic. They only
paid lip service to either...the "Greeks" were in reality
a number of independent city states, not a unified
democracy and were soon over taken by despotism. A lesson,
I'd say, warning us against worshiping the imperial US
presidency...

> The closest to a workable democratic system is and was a republic in which the
> representatives were democratically elected.

It is the closest, federally speaking. We generally
have greater demmocracy on the local level, of which
I wholeheartedly approve.
John - 05 Jan 2006 06:09 GMT
> Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
> is not now and never has been a democracy.

That's my point. I'd like to live in  a true democracy.

Government type : Definition Field Listing
Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

JD
Frank Pittel - 09 Jan 2006 18:57 GMT
: > Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: > is not now and never has been a democracy.

: That's my point. I'd like to live in  a true democracy.

Not me. I would hate to live in a country in which every voting citizen was
voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
years.
Signature


-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

G- Blank - 09 Jan 2006 19:04 GMT
> : > Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
> : > is not now and never has been a democracy.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
> years.

That would depend on how many people lived in the country,...
In the country of Blank there is little discussion, and most everything
is agreed upon fairly quickly.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips - 14 Jan 2006 05:12 GMT
> : > Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
> : > is not now and never has been a democracy.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
> years.

Better than debating/discussing for years
_after_ some elected idiot under our so-called
republican system has made the wrong decision
(usually based on special interest money as
Abramoff --spelling? -- is poignantly witness)
and ruined the lives of millions...

Nothing like real democracy. Someone tell W and
Alito.
Cheesehead - 04 Jan 2006 17:24 GMT
And 900 FBI files later
(using the FBI as a private & political police force)
many will still vote again for the HillBillies.

Also, Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war.
But it was returned.
And FDR has many rights suspended during WWII, but we got the back.
Both sides have done it and the US has survived.

BTW, isn't "neocon" simply newspeak for an anti-zionist attitude?
Fourty years ago the evangelical & fundamentalist Christian community
was called
anti-Semitic for precisely this same attitude toward the Zionist
movement.
Why should the Left get off without the appropriate designation?

Collin
David Nebenzahl - 05 Jan 2006 00:50 GMT
Cheesehead spake thus:

> BTW, isn't "neocon" simply newspeak for an anti-zionist attitude?

No, and that shows how much you [don't] know about neocons.
Neo-conservatives are almost monolithically pro-Israel (and
correspondingly anti-Arab, specifically anti-Palestinian). So actually,
they're pro-Zionist.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Tom Phillips - 05 Jan 2006 02:20 GMT
> And 900 FBI files later
> (using the FBI as a private & political police force)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> And FDR has many rights suspended during WWII, but we got the back.
> Both sides have done it and the US has survived.

The resilience of the American people regarding the
rights we know we have isn't an excuse for trampling
on the Constitution by Lincoln or FDR. Be that as it
may, dubya is the the most fascist, imperialistic
pres in US history.

> BTW, isn't "neocon" simply newspeak for an anti-zionist attitude?
> Fourty years ago the evangelical & fundamentalist Christian community
> was called
> anti-Semitic for precisely this same attitude toward the Zionist
> movement.
> Why should the Left get off without the appropriate designation?

Don't drag religion into it...
Cheesehead - 05 Jan 2006 13:23 GMT
"Fascist"
Don't try to sound intelligent, now.

Not religion.
Just the inherent religious bigotry of the Left.
Collin
Tom Phillips - 06 Jan 2006 00:54 GMT
> "Fascist"
> Don't try to sound intelligent, now.

fascism: a system of government marked by
centralization of authority. While I'll give you
there are degrees of fascism, the potential by a
chief executive to abuse the Constitution is nothing
new. You yourself mentioned Lincoln. Nixon to his
dying day thought a president wasn't really under
constitutional restraints and could do whatever he
wanted. Ditto dubya...

> Not religion.
> Just the inherent religious bigotry of the Left.

Guess you just can't take a hint. The fact that
you deliberately frame all your arguments in terms
of left and right only shows you know nothing of
true religion, anymore than you know what a neocon is...
David Nebenzahl - 06 Jan 2006 01:13 GMT
Tom Phillips spake thus:

>> Not religion.
>> Just the inherent religious bigotry of the Left.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of left and right only shows you know nothing of
> true religion, anymore than you know what a neocon is...

So do you ("Cheesehead") now understand what neocons are a little
better? That they are now, ironically, the ones defending "Israel, right
or wrong"? (Hint: Pat Buchanan isn't an Israel defender, nor a neocon.)

Oh, and one other thing: do you really wear one of those cheese hats?
Ever time I read one of your posts I picture that.

D "and kielbasa too" N

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Tom Phillips - 06 Jan 2006 01:38 GMT
> Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Oh, and one other thing: do you really wear one of those cheese hats?
> Ever time I read one of your posts I picture that.

Well now there's nothing wrong with being a cheesehead.
All it means is you're a Packers fan ;-)
G- Blank - 06 Jan 2006 03:18 GMT
> Well now there's nothing wrong with being a cheesehead.
> All it means is you're a Packers fan ;-)

Except that somewhere cheesehead ticked me off too
I only see his posts when you quote him.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips - 06 Jan 2006 04:20 GMT
> > Well now there's nothing wrong with being a cheesehead.
> > All it means is you're a Packers fan ;-)
>
> Except that somewhere cheesehead ticked me off too
> I only see his posts when you quote him.

Well, I could reply to cheesehead in similar noncompliant
to netiquette fashion and not even quote the OP so the
thread is completely abstruse and ambiguous. Would
that help?  ;-)
G- Blank - 06 Jan 2006 14:43 GMT

> Well, I could reply to cheesehead in similar noncompliant
> to netiquette fashion and not even quote the OP so the
> thread is completely abstruse and ambiguous. Would
> that help?  ;-)

Obviously not :-D
Do what you gotta do I have no complaints.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Cheesehead - 06 Jan 2006 12:16 GMT
It would be nice to get together as photographers and not discuss
politics.
We'd probably most all get along just fine.
The older I get the more I understand why so many avoid discussions on
politics and faith.

I'm in central Ohio.  Any of you folks nearby?

Collin
Cheesehead - 06 Jan 2006 02:46 GMT
Well, I do wear one.  Sometimes.  Usually just to rile up the
competition.  ;>)
But I'd generally rather go to Wrigley than watch football.
Normally I wear either a Badger bill cap, or a Cubs cap.

I frame in terms of Right and Left because the social dialectic
drives the Left in today's world.  You know, Lenin, Marx & Hegel.
Redistribution of wealth.  State-controlled religion.  De-legitimizing
government.
Subvert the dominant paradigm.  Question authority.  (And whatever
other
dialectical principle or cliche one can present as evidence.)

Those who say that the Left has no inherent religious bigotry are
either
misinformed, naive, or worse.  John Kerry said it clearly the other day
on Ed Schultz when he talked about promoting "freedom of and from
religion".
And nobody has yet been able to describe and enforcement of "from" for
society in general without redefining "free exercise" to such an extent
that
it becomes a non-existent right.  So when you hear self-described
Leftists
like Kerry use that terminology, think about the implications.  They're
scary.  Like him.

"True" religion is found in the NT letter by James.  Because religion
is a system
and can be a valuable component of NT Christianity.  That was a
personal relationship
with God based on grace, forgiveness, and repentence, and founded in
Christ's
propitiatory work.

The US is an open system with religious liberty for all and apart from
government control.
Nothing about separation in the First Amendment -- just some wonderful
things about
freedom of speech, press, religious establishment, religious practice,
and peaceable assembly.

If the gov't or a politician defines something true for others, then
I'm concerned.
They're not required to give up faith to hold office, but just to
respect that of all.

Collin
David Nebenzahl - 06 Jan 2006 04:51 GMT
Cheesehead spake thus:

[...]

You didn't answer my question about the neocons.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Cheesehead - 06 Jan 2006 12:18 GMT
My response would be a simple one:
Who coined the term and waht group does it describe?
That should be simple enough.  And clear.

Collin
David Nebenzahl - 07 Jan 2006 17:52 GMT
Cheesehead spake thus:

> My response would be a simple one:
> Who coined the term and waht group does it describe?
> That should be simple enough.  And clear.

Well, obviously you know little or nothing about the subject. It does
have a history, you know. You could look it up. And it does have a *lot*
to do with Israel; that's not just some Internet conspiracy-theory kookery.

Since there's no point in taking this further, I'll just break it off here.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Cheesehead - 08 Jan 2006 11:19 GMT
You know, we probably agree more than you think.
But this trolling attitude is hard to work with, whether in agreement
or disagreement.

Collin
Tom Phillips - 06 Jan 2006 05:00 GMT
Oh give me a break and stop trolling....

>Cheesehead wrote:

snip BS...
G- Blank - 06 Jan 2006 14:43 GMT
> Oh give me a break and stop trolling....
>
> >Cheesehead wrote:
>
> snip BS...

See what I mean.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Cheesehead - 06 Jan 2006 16:23 GMT
Trolling?  Just participating.
But with this nonsense I withdraw.
You guys continue the silliness on your own.

collin
David Nebenzahl - 07 Jan 2006 17:52 GMT
Cheesehead spake thus:

> Trolling?  Just participating.
> But with this nonsense I withdraw.
> You guys continue the silliness on your own.

Well, again, Tom's definition of a troll seems to be "anyone I don't
like or disagree with".

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

Tom Phillips - 14 Jan 2006 05:14 GMT
> Cheesehead spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Well, again, Tom's definition of a troll seems to be "anyone I don't
> like or disagree with".

And like this post isn't a troll itself...

A troll is someone who deliberately attempts to
to start arguments or illicit emotional, out of
context, off topic replies, disrupting discussions,
message boards, and newsgroups. Trolls are impervious
to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot
negotiate with a troll; you cannot cause them to feel
shame. You cannot reason with them. They cannot be made
to feel remorse.

IOW Sounds a lot like one David Nebenzahl sometimes,
as it's well documented you've snipped and crossposted
newsgroup discussions and way out of context in order
to start such arguments. And don't make me post those
incidents as proof. It would be way too easy...
John - 05 Jan 2006 06:34 GMT
> You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
> by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
> without consent and suspending habeas corpus?
>
> You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

JD
Tom Phillips - 05 Jan 2006 07:18 GMT
> > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

People vote party affiliation, perhaps the quintessential
definition of stupidity...
UC - 08 Jan 2006 08:48 GMT
> > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

Typical Liberal bullshit. In the Liberal minset, those who vote the
other way are stupid or brain-washed.

I beg to differ.

> JD
UC - 08 Jan 2006 10:19 GMT
> > You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
> > While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

Typical Liberal bullshit. In the Liberal mind-set, those who vote the
other way are stupid or brain-washed.

I beg to differ.

> JD
Cheesehead - 04 Jan 2006 17:19 GMT
Democracies and Republics come in many variants.
They're hard to make distinct.
There is no true "democracy", but the modern proletariat definition has
been claimed:  USSR, PROC.
The US is supposed to be a constitutional republic.
But that was before the Left's rise to corruption.

Collin
Tom Phillips - 05 Jan 2006 02:15 GMT
> Democracies and Republics come in many variants.
> They're hard to make distinct.
> There is no true "democracy", but the modern proletariat definition has
> been claimed:  USSR, PROC.
> The US is supposed to be a constitutional republic.
> But that was before the Left's rise to corruption.

The Left's?  You should pay more attention to the
current scandals and inditement of the corrupt
Right. Unless like dubya you don't read the news
papers.

Even Gingrich is saying they need to clean
up their corruption...
Cheesehead - 05 Jan 2006 13:25 GMT
Of course.  So let's not be politically myopic.
Like the NY Times has a reputation for truthfulness.
Sheesh.

Collin
John - 05 Jan 2006 06:05 GMT
> Democracies and Republics come in many variants.

"Democracy (Greek demos,”the people”; kratein, “to rule”), political
system in which the people of a country rule through any form of
government they choose to establish."

The term "through" implies direct representation. In the past I have
attempted to contact numerous "representatives" regarding political
issues and have always been stonewalled, railroaded or even just simply
ignored. And that goes down both sides of the aisle as I certainly don't
follow a party line.

JD
G- Blank - 05 Jan 2006 13:50 GMT
> > Democracies and Republics come in many variants.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> JD

That too bad they take that tack.......

Not my experience here in MD at all, I have on several
occasions written and emailed my congresspeople and even one
that is not my district because she listens,...i always get a reply.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Cheesehead - 05 Jan 2006 14:46 GMT
On both sides of the aisle there are those who take advantage
of the position and some who are actually responsive.
Even if you disagree with them, many do interact.
That's respectable behavior.
I've gotten letters back from some and no response form others.

Collin
Creeker - 28 Jan 2006 15:27 GMT
We all know this type of person.  They pretend to base their reasoning on
research but they really are the type that make up their mind based on
ignorance and prejudice and then research to find facts that support their
warped views and disregard  the true facts that prove them to be wrong.

They are the type of people that people who are corrupt love to have on
their side because they can be used and they still pat themselves on their
backs for being "great Americans" and "God loving".  So while they spout
ignorance they disregard the facts that the war was based on lies and this
administration is the most corrupt that we have ever had and are destroying
the bases of what makes this country great.  And they use the bible like a
pimp uses a prostitute.

In summary they are afraid of the facts.

> Democracies and Republics come in many variants.
> They're hard to make distinct.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Collin
G- Blank - 28 Jan 2006 17:02 GMT
> We all know this type of person.  They pretend to base their reasoning on
> research but they really are the type that make up their mind based on
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> In summary they are afraid of the facts.

 Watching the president on the news last night I am struck by a true
paradox on one hand he-George Bush comes across as a very likable sort
of guy. He says all the right stuff to make you believe he is a truthful
individual-someone you can consider a friend. but then there are all
these nagging concerns which anyone with an ounce of common sense
would say-hey something smells very suspect-especially when a lot of
closely tied administration people are taken to task-it does make you
wonder how he can be truthfully innocent.

My biggest question if I could ask the president is why if O.B.L was
such a priority  why was some much focus shifted to
Iraq, why did we not if Iraq was a clear cut danger not take immediate
action upon Iraq-had the military action been justified we could gone
to Iraq immediately versus petitioning the UN. Why is OSBL still not
found. Given enough time the Iraq admin might just set Saddam free.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

David Nebenzahl - 28 Jan 2006 20:20 GMT
G- Blank spake thus:

>   Watching the president on the news last night I am struck by a true
> paradox on one hand he-George Bush comes across as a very likable sort
> of guy.

No paradox, and a lesson here for the left-liberal-pwogwessive crowd (of
which I count myself a member): Bush *is* likeable. Like a cute little
monkey, or your little brother, but definitely likeable.

Anecdote: someone I know covered both the Democrap and Repugnant
conventions in 2000, and got close to both Gore and Bush as a
journalist. She, being a lefty from Berkeley, of course hated W's
politics and embraced Gore's. But she told me that, after meeting both
men, that there was no question that you would rather have a beer with
Bush than with Gore, who is basically a bore and a blowhard.

Just another example of why politics *should* have little to do with
personality, and why we're basically f.cking doomed, because that'll
never happen: Hollywood stars and slick telegenic corrupt greedy
opportunists will continue to be elected.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

John - 29 Jan 2006 06:12 GMT
>Hollywood stars and slick telegenic corrupt greedy
>opportunists will continue to be elected.

The correct spelling is "Hollyweird".

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Tom Phillips - 29 Jan 2006 07:58 GMT
> > We all know this type of person.  They pretend to base their reasoning on
> > research but they really are the type that make up their mind based on
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> of guy. He says all the right stuff to make you believe he is a truthful
> individual-someone you can consider a friend.

What all this has to do with enlargers I don't know ;)
(especially since I haven't read this thread) But I
beg to differ slightly. What he and president cheney
say is that their lies aren't realy lies, but the truth.
I guess that's the "right stuff," since it's apparently
the parsing of the truth the vast majority of Americans
want to hear...

doggone, that little smirk of his works it's media
charm every time ;^)

but then there are all
> these nagging concerns which anyone with an ounce of common sense
> would say-hey something smells very suspect-especially when a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> to Iraq immediately versus petitioning the UN. Why is OSBL still not
> found. Given enough time the Iraq admin might just set Saddam free.

Ah, how quickly the voters forget (or just don't
pay attention ;) ).

During the debates when Kerry noted W had said our
arch enemy Osama was irrelevant, W course denied it.
W said "I never said that." The next day of course
the tape of W stating at a news briefing that he
didn't "care about bin Laden" and wasn't concerned
with him was all over the news media. Yep, W caught
read handed lying his smirking you know what off.

Hey, people get what they vote for, so if OBL is still
out there planning another 9/11 the American voter has
only themsleves to blame...(yes, I know you didn't vote
for the smirking, lying twit ;)  ).
Dana H. Myers - 29 Jan 2006 08:07 GMT
> doggone, that little smirk of his works it's media
> charm every time ;^)

Stunning, isn't it?  I'm always amazed how the smirk seems to
be ignored or even liked.  It's a *smirk*, for goodness-sake.

Dana
Tom Phillips - 29 Jan 2006 08:22 GMT
> > doggone, that little smirk of his works it's media
> > charm every time ;^)
>
> Stunning, isn't it?  I'm always amazed how the smirk seems to
> be ignored or even liked.  It's a *smirk*, for goodness-sake.

it's either a drug induced deformity from W's
cocaine days or a calculated tactic to dumb
him down so the common folk don't think he's
too intelligent and thus dislike him ;-)
John - 29 Jan 2006 17:09 GMT
>it's either a drug induced deformity from W's
>cocaine days or a calculated tactic to dumb
>him down so the common folk don't think he's
>too intelligent and thus dislike him ;-)

I think it a combination of cocaine and alcohol. Imagine that he went
to bed one night like that and it stuck !

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Lloyd Erlick - 01 Feb 2006 14:59 GMT
>> doggone, that little smirk of his works it's media
>> charm every time ;^)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Dana

February 1, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

It's an administration of exclusion. The
smirk is the expression the excluders like to
direct at the excluded. It's meaning is 'us,
not you.'

Civilizations or societies may have
interludes during which the smirk is regarded
as disqualification for high office. Those
interludes are characterized by high levels
of education amongst a populace (which is
also likely an electorate). Most periods of
history are characterized by ignorance and
mob-mentality. When we turn from one of our
interludes back toward ignorance, we call it
dumbification ...

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Tom Phillips - 02 Feb 2006 01:33 GMT
> >> doggone, that little smirk of his works it's media
> >> charm every time ;^)
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> history are characterized by ignorance and
> mob-mentality.

Otherwise known as political parties...

>When we turn from one of our
> interludes back toward ignorance, we call it
> dumbification ...

Another word for dumbification: The State
of the Union. I ever so glad I have a darkroom
to duck into whenever W is on the TV...
Lloyd Erlick - 31 Jan 2006 16:42 GMT
>Given enough time the Iraq admin might just set Saddam free.

January 31, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Now that we've seen the results of the
election in Palestine, it's pretty clear we
should expect elections in Iraq to eventually
bring about a stern Islamic state such as
exist elsewhere.

Islamic societies are very old and highly
developed. They are not easily disrupted, and
they have a long history of withstanding the
frequent attempts to disrupt them. They are
by no means inferior in this regard to Jews,
who have withstood disruption for along time,
or Christians, who learned to survive Roman
persecution almost two thousand years ago.

So we should not expect change to occur in
Iraqi society just because there has been an
American occupation for a few years.

I'm curious to see if they will put execution
of Saddam on the table. There must be plenty
of Iraqis who know he could eventually get
out of jail. A lot of people must be very
frightened to think he's still alive.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

G- Blank - 31 Jan 2006 17:09 GMT
>  A lot of people must be very
> frightened to think he's still alive.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> net: www.heylloyd.com
> ________________________________

It frightens me, why because although he was first said
to be feeble and incompetent he has shown himself
to be quite resilient in recent goings on-hardly an old
dolt.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Lloyd Erlick - 01 Feb 2006 15:06 GMT
...

he was first said
>to be feeble and incompetent he has shown himself
>to be quite resilient in recent goings on-hardly an old
>dolt.

February 1, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, "said to be". Indeed. Who would benefit
from such a public perception?

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Helge Nareid - 31 Jan 2006 22:01 GMT
>Now that we've seen the results of the
>election in Palestine,

[... long snip, none of which have anything to with enlargers or
darkrooms ...]

Please, this is to all of the posters going off on this politically
loaded tangent, not only Lloyd Erlick (who I may have targetted
somewhat unfairly in this message).

Whatever the merits (or lack of same) of your views, this has nothing
to do with the theme of this newsgroup, nor indeed the topic of this
thread. Please remove your discussion to a more appropriate forum.
Signature

- Helge Nareid
 Nordmann i utlendighet, Aberdeen, Scotland
 For e-mail, please use my initials with the same domain as the posted address
 Website: http://www.nareid-web.me.uk/

Lloyd Erlick - 01 Feb 2006 15:13 GMT
>>Now that we've seen the results of the
>>election in Palestine,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>to do with the theme of this newsgroup, nor indeed the topic of this
>thread. Please remove your discussion to a more appropriate forum.

February 1, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

OK.
--le
Tom Phillips - 02 Feb 2006 01:32 GMT
> >>Now that we've seen the results of the
> >>election in Palestine,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> OK.

I agree there's been way to many sprawling
off topic theads both here and in LF
equipment.
David Nebenzahl - 02 Feb 2006 02:26 GMT
Tom Phillips tortured some electrons with the following result:

>>>> Now that we've seen the results of the election in Palestine,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> off topic theads both here and in LF
> equipment.

And your idea of being helpful is ... yet another post, with a spelling
error? Sheesh.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
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Tom Phillips - 02 Feb 2006 02:44 GMT
John - 29 Jan 2006 05:42 GMT
>In summary they are afraid of the facts.

Why be afraid of something that they can easily manage ? Facts are not
an issue unless the can be verified and used. You could wrap a bat in
facts and smack the majority of people right between the eyes with it
and they would swear it's irrelevant. If facts were relevant Bush
would be impeached.

==
        John - Photographer & Webmaster
     www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net
Lloyd Erlick - 31 Jan 2006 16:44 GMT
>>In summary they are afraid of the facts.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>         John - Photographer & Webmaster
>      www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net

January 31, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Dumbification, my new favorite word ... (You
could wrap a bat in facts ...)

--le
Creeker - 02 Jan 2006 01:02 GMT
I would say both are equally important up to a point.  You need a good
strong enlarger with a sturdy base that is light tight especially if you are
having alot of different people using and abusing them.  An enlarger that
shakes will negate the best enlarging lens.  Start with this type of
enlarger and the best lens you can buy and then focus on what exactly you
will be using them for and look for the extras that will help you.

Been away from the darkroom for ten years and that felt great.  I miss it

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Many thanks,
> Gunnar
Rod Smith - 02 Jan 2006 01:32 GMT
> we have a couple of very bad enlargers in our university society
> darkroom. i am looking to buy new gear now. what would you say is more
> important lenses or enlarger? how does the enlarger matter? is it not
> just a bit of metal that passes light through the negative onto the lens?

I agree with others that, above a certain level of quality, the lens is
more important than the rest of the enlarger in terms of producing a
quality image. I would, though, like to point out some of the areas where
the quality or features of an enlarger are very important:

- The enlarger design determines what negative formats you can manage
 (sub-miniature, 35mm, 6x6, 6x7, etc.). Many enlargers can handle
 multiple formats, but you may need different negative carriers,
 condensers, mixing boxes, or other accessories.

- Enlarger heads vary in design, and this can affect the images you get.
 Condenser vs. diffusion, the presence or absence of built-in filters for
 color or B&W variable contrast papers, etc., can be important
 considerations.

- Most enlargers accept lenses with 39mm threads. A few require other
 types of lens mounts. Many use "lens boards" for mounting the lens, with
 multiple lens boards available for different lens types.

- The column height determines the maximum size image you can create,
 given a particular film size and lens.

- In part as a consequence of column height and supported negative
 formats, enlargers vary in size and weight. Measure your available space
 and check on load limits in your darkroom, particularly if you're
 tempted by any really large enlargers.

- Some enlargers -- particularly high-end models -- have extra features
 such as heads that can tilt for wall projection and/or Scheimpflug
 effects, autofocus, coarse and fine focus controls, built-in timers (vs.
 separate timers), etc.

- Popular models from major manufacturers are likely to have parts
 available for years to come. It may be hard to find parts for obscure
 models in the not-too-distant future (or already for used enlargers).
 Pay particular attention to bulbs; some models (especially for used
 equipment) require bulbs that are no longer available or that are very
 expensive.

- The minimum level of quality is important. An enlarger can be out of
 alignment, difficult to focus accurately, etc. Even if it works OK
 today, a poorly built enlarger may suffer more as entropy takes its toll
 than a better built machine would. This is likely to be particularly
 important for a communal darkroom such as the one for which you're
 buying.

- The preceding point goes double (or more) for used gear. Used equipment
 could be banged up, missing parts, badly misaligned, etc. Even if it was
 the best enlarger available when it was new, it could be junk today --
 or it could still be in like-new condition.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend buying a cheap enlarger (in the pejorative
sense; an inexpensive enlarger could be a great bargain) for a communal
darkroom, mainly because it's likely to suffer more from heavy use or
abuse than would a better built enlarger.

One other point: A well-built enlarger is pretty tough and should be able
to handle communal work pretty well. An excellent lens, OTOH, is just as
delicate as a poor one. You might consider buying as good an enlarger as
you can afford and two or three used lenses (even if you buy a new
enlarger). Even excellent used lenses are pretty cheap ($50 or less for
most). You can use the best of the lot as the primary lens and relegate
the worst to backup duty.

You haven't said what your price range is or what sorts of requirements
you have for features (supported formats, color or B&W, etc.). Given some
of that information, the people here might be able to offer more specific
advice, including how much of your budget to devote to the enlarger vs.
the lens.

Signature

Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

gr - 02 Jan 2006 02:35 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Many thanks,
> Gunnar
I am agreed with the folks that say a minimum of both is required.
I think in your environment the wear resistance and design that the many
users cannot screw up during use is more important than having the best
lens.
For most users a 4 element tessar design lens is quite adequate. If you
are doing huge enlargements a fancier lens would yield visible differences.
gr
John - 02 Jan 2006 10:30 GMT
> Hi all,
>
> we have a couple of very bad enlargers in our university society
> darkroom. i am looking to buy new gear now. what would you say is more
> important lenses or enlarger? how does the enlarger matter? is it not
> just a bit of metal that passes light through the negative onto the lens?

The best lens ever made can't make an out-of-focus image sharp. A good
chassis with good alignment should be the basis for any enlarging. I'll
take a well-aligned Durst with a triplet over a poorly aligned Beseler
with an APO lens every day of the week.

JD
David Nebenzahl - 02 Jan 2006 20:26 GMT
John spake thus:

>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> take a well-aligned Durst with a triplet over a poorly aligned Beseler
> with an APO lens every day of the week.

Yes, but the Beseler can easily be aligned, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
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John - 03 Jan 2006 06:54 GMT
>> The best lens ever made can't make an out-of-focus image sharp. A good
>> chassis with good alignment should be the basis for any enlarging. I'll
>> take a well-aligned Durst with a triplet over a poorly aligned Beseler
>> with an APO lens every day of the week.
>
> Yes, but the Beseler can easily be aligned, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not unless you want to
cut the frame.

JS
David Nebenzahl - 03 Jan 2006 07:02 GMT
John spake thus:

>>> The best lens ever made can't make an out-of-focus image sharp. A
>>> good chassis with good alignment should be the basis for any
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not unless you want to
> cut the frame.

Don't know what you mean by "most Beselers", but I can tell you that all
23Cs can easily be aligned. I've done it on mine and others. There are
screws that can be loosened and adjusted to align it in both (x and y) axes.

Signature

The only reason corrupt Republicans rule the roost in Washington
is because the corrupt Democrats can't muster any viable opposition.

John - 03 Jan 2006 07:27 GMT
>> Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not unless you want to
>> cut the frame.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> screws that can be loosened and adjusted to align it in both (x and y)
> axes.

Perhaps the earliest 23C's but the 23CII and 23CIII are (according to
Beseler) permanently aligned at the factory. I have the 23CII in storage
 and I never found it more than merely adequate. I contrast my Durst,
Omega and even the Elwood are much more of a pleasure to use.

JD
Dr. Dagor - 03 Jan 2006 14:55 GMT
If at first your Beseler won't align, get a bigger hammer.
Not only won't they align, but they tend to wiggle when you put a
reasonably large lamp house on them.
G- Blank - 03 Jan 2006 13:29 GMT
> >> The best lens ever made can't make an out-of-focus image sharp. A good
> >> chassis with good alignment should be the basis for any enlarging. I'll
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> JS

Define adjusted. The MXT can.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

John - 05 Jan 2006 06:37 GMT
>>>> The best lens ever made can't make an out-of-focus image sharp. A good
>>>> chassis with good alignment should be the basis for any enlarging. I'll
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Define adjusted. The MXT can.

Try adjusting a 23CII and you will learn the true meaning of frustration.

JD
Nicholas O. Lindan - 03 Jan 2006 14:57 GMT
> Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not
> unless you want to cut the frame.

The 4x5's can.  The others ???

FWIW, IMO: I have had Omega and Beseler 45's and they both
do an adequate job.  It is a Ford Vs Chevy argument: both
are perfectly adequate, neither is spectacular, and the
choice between them supplies endless unresolvable debate.

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Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
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G- Blank - 03 Jan 2006 16:18 GMT
> > Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not
> > unless you want to cut the frame.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> are perfectly adequate, neither is spectacular, and the
> choice between them supplies endless unresolvable debate.

I agree completely have used both D5XL and the MXt
both do just fine, each has pluses and minuses.

Signature

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips - 03 Jan 2006 22:08 GMT
> > > Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not
> > > unless you want to cut the frame.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I agree completely have used both D5XL and the MXt
> both do just fine, each has pluses and minuses.

I can adjust my MXT all day. But can't get it into alignment ;)

But then "alignment" is a relative term...
John Garand - 23 Feb 2006 03:38 GMT
ON Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:57:39 GMT, "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig.com>
WROTE:

>> Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not
>> unless you want to cut the frame.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>are perfectly adequate, neither is spectacular, and the
>choice between them supplies endless unresolvable debate.

The only communal darkrooms I have used were on Army posts, and at
least in the 60s they were equipped with Omega D2s.  Served well, (at
least)  as long as someone who knew their elbow from their rump was
running the photo lab.

I bought an Omega D4 from a darkroom rental place in Dallas a few
years back.  Got a good deal because the owner didn't know anything
about Omegas, only used Beseler 4x5s (he was selling the Omega for the
widow of a friend).  He had no problems with the Beseler.

I think once you get to 4x5 and larger formats, it is hard to find a
poorly engineered enlarger.  But I love my Durst L-138!
Cheesehead - 24 Feb 2006 15:44 GMT
>I think once you get to 4x5 and larger formats, it is hard to find a
>poorly engineered enlarger.  But I love my Durst L-138!

At least among modern units.
My first 4x5 enlarger was an old unit from the early 50s.
Good right-left alignment.
But difficult to maintain because the head mount wore and front-back
alignment was a real pain.
I ended up proping up the back of the paper easel .... until getting my
Omega ... and that didn't take long to think about.

Collin
KC8TKA
Lloyd Erlick - 03 Jan 2006 18:04 GMT
>Actually most Beselers can't be adjusted. Well, not unless you want to
>cut the frame.
>
>JS

January 3, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

Exactly the reason I bought a Durst. I even
bought a gizmo sold to adjust the negative
stage. I never got any joy from it. I loved
my Beseler for years, but the Durst
outclasses it in every regard.

For a communal darkroom, used Durst L1200
chassis are pretty much invulnerable, and
available relatively cheaply due to digital,
which I don't dig at all.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Nicholas O. Lindan - 03 Jan 2006 18:38 GMT
> For a communal darkroom, used Durst L1200
> chassis are pretty much invulnerable

I loved the little Durst I had.  But like
most things Italian, the lack of parts,
accessories and service negated much of
the charm - and this was when Durst was
still alive and kicking.  OTOH, if a
Durst L1200 showed up at my place I
would probably overlook all that.

The other high-end enlargers that sometimes
go for a song are DeVere, Eseco and ZBE.
Unfortunately, they are, or are soon to be,
orphans.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
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Gunnar Mallon - 02 Jan 2006 17:55 GMT
thank you very much everyone for taking the time for great feedback!

Much appreciated,
Gunnar

http://www.chromografix.co.uk
Dr. Dagor - 02 Jan 2006 18:41 GMT
You can't even begin to print well unless the lenses are good quality.
So that's where to start.  Be sure to get 6 element lenses -- Componon
instead of Componar for example. But there are things you can do to the
existing enlargers to make them perform better.  If they are
mechanically sound and if the moving parts are not badly corroded or
worn, enlargers can not only be brought back to life--they can be
improved.

And just as a note.  Ugly does not mean bad in enlargers.  Some of the
really ugly ones are among the best. All you really want them to be is
solid and stable.

Quick approach:
Clean the units thoroughly inside and out.  They need to be spotless.
Use very light lubrication on any moving parts that aren't smooth.
Sewing machine grease or oil works well, but us it sparingly.  It just
attracts more dirt.

Align the enlarger.  There are lots of notes on the web about doing
this.  One trick is to take a simple laser pointer and mount it on a
base so that the beam is absolutely perpendicular to the plane of the
base.  Shine the beam up into the enlarger (with a glass plate on the
negative stage), and true up the lens, the neg stage, and the paper
stage so they are all parallel using the reflected image back down on
the paper stage.  Also make sure that when the laser is aimed up
through the center of the enlarging lens that the laser dot appears on
the center of each condenser lens and the enlarger lamp.  That means
the lamp is centered on the condensers which are centered on the lens.

Improve the light source.  Nothing says you need to slavishly stick
with a crappy light source. You can install anything that fits. For
condenser enlargers my current favorite is a 12 volt halogen lamp with
a 2" halographic diffuser in front of it.  Many people are fond of
"point source" illumination.

Hope this helps.