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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2005Kentmere silence...
Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think that 95% of all other people's images are crap!...") is of more technical interest... Tom Phillips wrote: > Does anyone use Kentmere graded Bromide papers? > > Just looking for a little empirical experience as to > how these papers compare, whether they're fast, slow, > how they develop in Dektol, LPD, tone in selenium, etc. > (i.e., print color.) Kentmere says their grade 2 might > be a bit sotfer than Seagull G grade 2. > > Oriental Seagull G, for years a very consistent, fast > bromide paper, has so radically changed the emulsion > I can't use it for negatives historically printed on > G for cold tone results and need a substitute. > > Also any comparitive info with Bergger NB papers > would be appreciated. > > Thanks > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think > that 95% of all other people's images are crap!...") > is of more technical interest... Or perhaps they haven't tried Kentmere. I for one have a rather large stock pile of Forte paper which needs to used asap. I also have recently been using Ilford MG FB. I also have a vast array of other 8x10 size papers that I got to try and sample, if you want to send me some Kentmere I'll be glad to try it. It does gall me that Freestyle marks the paper up 100% percent from Kentmere's suggested & listed price. However the price is in line with other photo papers on the market.  Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com > > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rather large stock pile of Forte paper which needs to used > asap. O.K., so I was being just a little facetious :) I'm told Bergger is Forte. So your experience might be useful there since I'm also interested in Bergger, but only the graded papers. I also have recently been using Ilford MG FB. I also > have a vast array of other 8x10 size papers that I got to try > and sample, if you want to send me some Kentmere I'll be glad to > try it. Sure. Send me your shipping info :-) I'd prefer cash or a check made directly out to Freestyle ;) > It does gall me that Freestyle marks the paper up 100% percent > from Kentmere's suggested & listed price. However the price is in line > with other photo papers on the market. Cheaper than Seagull though, and Freestyle has more competitive pricing than some others (notably Calumet.) > > > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > > > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > be useful there since I'm also interested in Bergger, > but only the graded papers. It could be: I have not tried the graded Bergger, I have an older box of VC FB Glossy, to my eye the Bergger VC is richer in tone than Forte Polygraded paper, but less rich than Forte's graded Bromofort. It wouldn't surprise me mainly because I have said numerous times whoever is making Fortepan film is making it for a number of Euro companies. > I also have recently been using Ilford MG FB. I also > > have a vast array of other 8x10 size papers that I got to try [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Sure. Send me your shipping info :-) I'd prefer cash or > a check made directly out to Freestyle ;) Er Thanks for the generous offer- I'll pass ;-) > > It does gall me that Freestyle marks the paper up 100% percent > > from Kentmere's suggested & listed price. However the price is in line > > with other photo papers on the market. > > Cheaper than Seagull though, and Freestyle has more competitive > pricing than some others (notably Calumet.) Call me spoiled but I was buying Forte at employee pricing. 10% below dealer net. Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com > > > > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > > > > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > times whoever is making Fortepan film is making it for > a number of Euro companies. The guys at Freestyle think Oriental Seagull GF (replacing the classic Seagull G, perhaps my favorite paper of all time) is now being made by Ilford (the packaging is similar.) Yet I was told by Oriental USA (not a reliable source) Seagull was still being made at the same facilities in Japan. Clearly it's not, since the GF is a completely different emulsion. I've commented it has the look (untoned) of Ilford Gallerie. Have to wonder when these "proprietary" manufacturers will quit yanking our chains. Think I'll go with Kentmere and hope they're stated consistency will stay consistent. > > I also have recently been using Ilford MG FB. I also > > > have a vast array of other 8x10 size papers that I got to try [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Er Thanks for the generous offer- I'll pass ;-) com'on. Only a 20% mark up :) > Call me spoiled but I was buying Forte at employee pricing. > 10% below dealer net. So, what kind of deal can you get on Kentmere? Troll??? For what you posted...here's what I read: "Before I do my own homework, somebody tell me everything there is to know about some random paper/chemistry combination. Is this going to do exactly what I want it to do? Oh, I'm not going to tell you what I'm trying to achieve or what I have to work with...I just don't want to spend the time or money to do my own work. By the way, how does this random combination compare with some other random combination. If I don't get an immediate answer to the mysteries of the universe, I'm going to insult some random slob, so you better answer me!!!" > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Thanks > Troll??? Yes, I agree. > For what you posted...here's what I read: > > "Before I do my own homework, somebody tell me everything there is to know > about some random paper/chemistry combination. snip... uh um...I was actually quite specific, not requesting "everything." Already know everything Kentmere research can provide. What is lacking (since I haven't used it and you seem to have trouble reading...) is _empirical_ knowledge. In case you lack a handy dictionary, this refers to pragmatic experience. But hey, for the sake of my amusment, do you also think 95% of Adams, Weston, etc. photographs are "crap"? I mean, "all other people's" images is pretty sweeping. Have you informed museums housing photo collections of this? > > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >> > >> Thanks <snip> > But hey, for the sake of my amusment, do you also think 95% > of Adams, Weston, etc. photographs are "crap"? I mean, "all > other people's" images is pretty sweeping. Have you informed > museums housing photo collections of this? And just what percentage of Adam's images went into the trash can? But, maybe you print and display 95% of your stuff...my hat's off to you! (My eyes are glazed over but, my hat's off) > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > maybe you print and display 95% of your stuff...my hat's off to you! (My > eyes are glazed over but, my hat's off) You have no idea what percentage of someone else's work gets tossed, plus you didn't answer my question... Ansel made over 40,000 negatives. If you understood creative printing, you'd understand all photographers pick a limited number of negatives to print. Otherwise you'd spend 24/7 365 days a year in the darkroom. Most want to put their best work out there. Same reason the public only see finished prints, not work prints. > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think > that 95% of all other people's images are crap!...") > is of more technical interest... I've heard of graded papers -) The more you limit the question the smaller the potential group of responders. Kentmere has been available via Freestyle for not that long. Is it even a year yet? You could try www.apug.org . I think some are using it. Nick Signature--------------------------------------- "Digital the new ice fishing" --------------------------------------- > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Thanks I've used Freestyl's house brand paper made by Kentmere, its the VC not graded version but its good paper. The only thing is that it seems to curl more than some others. I will be trying some of the graded stuff soon. Kentmere is a very old company not well known in the US because most of its paper has been sold under various house brands. They are beginning to push the stuff under their own name. Ilford, as you might know, will no longer make materials to be sold under house brands. I don't know if Kentmere will follow. Right now Freestyle carries a full line of Kentmere paper plus their Arista II paper is Kentmere. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers > > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Right now Freestyle carries a full line of Kentmere paper > plus their Arista II paper is Kentmere. It's interesting you mention that about Ilford. From my tests on the new Seagull GF and conversations with Freestyle, it's being speculated the new GF emulsion is actually Ilford Gallerie. Kentmere, I'm told, was sold as Luminos (spelling?) But bascially I just wanted to make sure the Kentmere was as advertised, since my recent experience with Oriental G changing the emulsion (from a cold tone to slightly warm) has already set my printing back a good three weeks. >> > Possibly no one here prints on real silver papers >> > anymore, or else a troll's confessions ("I also think [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > changing the emulsion (from a cold tone to slightly warm) > has already set my printing back a good three weeks. I've learned from another source that Luminos was, indeed, Kentmere. I don't know what names Ilford contracted to make but all the house brand stuff was also available under the Ilford name. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com >> Does anyone use Kentmere graded Bromide papers? >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >> Thanks Bergger = Forte Ilford is scaring it Dutch customers away by making it practically impossible to buy their papers locally. So I have been testing Kentmere Fineprint VC (fiber) and Kentmere Kentona (grades warmtone fiiber). Simply said : Kentmere produces EXCELLENT papers. I'm beginning to like Fineprint VC even better than Ilford Multigrade FB. It is more than a stop faster which is excellent for bigger enlargements. And in my subjective experience it is sharper than MG. Kentona is a warmtone graded paper which responds very well to different developers and toners. It is not the same as Forte Polywarmtone, but I like it just as much. The fact that it is only produced in grade 2 isn't a problem to me, since I use the zone-system. Just try the Kentmere papers. You will not be disappointed. Gilbert Gilbert _____________ http://www.apug.org Gilbert <argentic@saturnus.nl> schrieb: >Ilford is scaring it Dutch customers away by making it practically >impossible to buy their papers locally. You might want to contact Amaloco for a local dealer near you - their Variprof is Ilford MGIV and they won´t pass over the price increase announced by Ilford to the customers for another 4 months. >Gilbert Gruss, Roman Signature"Ich fuehle Portraits. ich schmecke Landschaften. Frei von Belichtungsmesser, und Tiefenschaerfe." (aus "Pecker") >Gilbert <argentic@saturnus.nl> schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Variprof is Ilford MGIV and they won´t pass over the price increase >announced by Ilford to the customers for another 4 months. >Gruss, >Roman Thank you for the suggestion. But Amaloco only carries the RC Ilford paper. And I practically only use fiber based papers nowadays. I only use RC for contacts or proofs. Greetings Gilbert Gilbert _____________ http://www.apug.org Hi Silverworld Each time I try a new paper I do a new print of same négative to compare: Kentmere FinePrint VC is a cold classical FB. Kentmere Bromide FG is very near FinePrint a very little bit warmer. I suspect dmax is even stronger than FinePrint. Kentmere Kentona FG is a classsical warm FB. Kentmere Art Classic is a ivoiry FB on cartoon. Touch is grained matt as famous Agfa 118. Kentmere Kenthene is a FG Stipple on light weight RC paper. Touch is like slide screen :) I don't see usage for that paper ? All that papers are good quality product. I was surprised by FinePrint and Bromide because dense black and pure white. Art Classic is the good way for portrait but some people don't like that old fashion look. Top of old fashion is Foma 542 Chamois with ultra matt picture on strong grained yellow cartoon. Tschüβ Babar |
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