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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2005Ilford Delta 100 contrast problems
I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my temperature and minimizing agitation, yet I find the negatives difficult to print in most cases--it's always highlights or shadows, highlights or shadows. (Sometimes I end up scanning twice and combining in photoshop.) Do I simply need to try five minutes instead of six, or what's going on here? Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the size of a walk in closet). Thanks.  SignatureRegards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the > size of a walk in closet). Thanks. Highlights or shadows what, exactly? Too dense is too dense. You're overexposing or overdeveloping. Or both. The relationship between exposure and development is reciprocal, and the exposure index (i.e., film speed) changes depending on development. Might want to reseach basic film sensitometry, i.e., do some step wedge testing and draw some film curves (see Davis, Beyond the Zone System.) A normal contrast negative (normal CI) that prints on a grade 2 or 3 isn't arrived at by chance. Photoshop can't cure it. In fact it might be useful if you made some actual photographs. Nutshell, you can simply reduce development times and/or reduce exposure (increase you film speed) but you'd still just be guessing. > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the > size of a walk in closet). Thanks. Dilution? If your using B its a bad idea. Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com >> I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives >> keep [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Dilution? If your using B its a bad idea. I am using B. What do you recommend? Perhaps a different developer? SignatureRegards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com Try Paterson FX-39 1+17 for 8 minutes. > >> I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives > >> keep [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I am using B. What do you recommend? Perhaps a different developer? > >> I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives > >> keep [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I am using B. What do you recommend? Perhaps a different developer? HC 110 is a great teaching device and a developer that is very clean working, using the 1+11 dilution is better IMop because you can do time adjustments with a longer starting time. I do use this dilution, but there are two other developers I personally prefer: D23 and Pmk. D23 being extremely easy to mix. Hc110 you can get away with putting your hands in- though I don't recommend it. These other two you will need gloves. The main problem I see with Hc110 B dil - is the developer is hot at that dilution- and is recommended for students because under exposures and developments would ward off people from learning darkroom and spending money. If you try the 1+11 you might test it at about 70F and 7-11 minutes depending on agitation. If the negative looks too dense at those you can still clip off 2 minutes or more and be above the five minute uneven development dilemma. Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com > HC 110 is a great teaching device and a developer that is very clean > working, using the 1+11 dilution is better IMop because you can do > time adjustments with a longer starting time. I do use this dilution, > but there are two other developers I personally prefer: >................. This way of expressing the dilution might be confusing. Dilution B is 1+31, and "1+11" would be more concentrated. Are you referring to the recommended stock solution? Something like half the concentration of Dilution B is probably the way to go. It seems to me that the original poster needs less contrast, not necessarily a different developer. > > HC 110 is a great teaching device and a developer that is very clean > > working, using the 1+11 dilution is better IMop because you can do [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It seems to me that the original poster needs less contrast, not > necessarily a different developer. As noted on the bottle of HC110- B is 1 developer stock +7 parts water Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com Dilution B is 1+31 from concentrate or 1+7 from stock solution. Dilution H (unofficial) is 1+63 from concentrate or 1+15 from stock. I make HC-110 from stock. I find that the stock solution lasts a very long time in small glass bottles. I cover the bottle mouth with Saran wrap before screwing on the lids and have stock that's better than a year old and still good. Signaturedarkroommike > > > HC 110 is a great teaching device and a developer that is very clean [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It seems to me that the original poster needs less contrast, not > necessarily a different developer. > I find that the stock solution lasts a very long time in small > glass bottles. I found the syrup lasts for 20 years in the original bottle: 100% -> 20% full over time. I chucked it just 'because' and got a new bottle. The stuff has changed and I don't know if it is still as unkillable. I don't like the stuff as one can guess, it taking 20+ years to use it up: Blocked highlights; Large _sloppy_ grain; Good stuff for developing film shot by a six year old; Cheap; Reliable. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm Don't really care to measure small quantities of syrup and actually find that with proper care it works well, even with picky high contrast films can be tames with the proper agitation and dilutions but it's not every one's favorite. (And I don't mind grain, grain is a film artifact. You either like it or not.) Signaturedarkroommike > > > I find that the stock solution lasts a very long time in small [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > use it up: Blocked highlights; Large _sloppy_ grain; Good stuff for > developing film shot by a six year old; Cheap; Reliable. > Don't really care to measure small quantities of syrup and actually find > that with proper care it works well, even with picky high contrast films can > be tames with the proper agitation and dilutions but it's not every one's > favorite. (And I don't mind grain, grain is a film artifact. You either > like it or not.) Yup- and my experience shows: Using HC110 in one of the more dilute ratios-just as rodinal will not appreciably show grain if one is shooting LF or even larger medium format negatives. Therefore being liquid concentrate I do fine HC110 to be an easy to use developer as opposed to weighing and mixing the other developers I like. Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com >I am using B. What do you recommend? Perhaps a different developer? i'm pretty happy of my deltas with rodinal, but i'm a newbie so don't take my suggestions too seriously. regards, SignatureGianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA) Nikon user - Bmw driver ... parchè mè an pòs tnì avért e scelf sèza ciapé i bajoc! > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. You don't mention a format. Is it 35mm? Lots of contrast is what HC-110 does. And lots of contrast is what T/Delta grain films do when slightly overdeveloped. One fix is a lower contrast subject. Not that flip an answer - when you have a really flat subject this combination may work well for you. The other fix would be to try using Microdol-X. I use it 1:3 because I am cheap. If your subject is really contrasty try overexposing by one stop and underdeveloping by ~25%: ye olde 'N-1'. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives > keep coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom > the size of a walk in closet). Thanks. Plan A: If you want to mix your own I'd go with D-23 I've been preaching D-23D to anyone who will listen. Say AMEN! See, "Divided D-23, The Perfect Film Developer. Camera Arts, Sept. 1989. pp 12-15. Time/temp not critical, works every time. Very economical; good for at least a dozen rolls. For even development roll the tank gently 10s/min. No, technically speaking for the purists it's not a "true" divided developer but bascially works that way. Start with 4min in A & B. Adjust the the A time depending on results; more time = more contrast. The look of D-76 1:1 with less tendency to block highlights which makes it great for T-Max/Delta films. To make 1 qt each: A: Metol 7.5 grams (2 1/4 tsp) Sodium Sulfite 100 grams (4 Tbs + 1 1/4 tsp) B: Sodium Carbonate (anh) 1 tsp OR 1 Tbs. Arm and Hammer Washing Soda OR for lower contrast/grain use this Solution B: Borax 18 grams (1 Tbs + 1 tsp) -------------------------- Plan B: If you want prepackaged I'd go with D-76 1+1; it's pretty much the standard. Remember, recommended time/temps are starting points. Do a quick easy clip test. Shoot a roll of ISO 100 at f16, 1/125 on a sunny day at noonish of typical subjects (people, buildings, etc). Clip off maybe 12" and develop. Adjust development accordingly. Natural Light Black and White Photography http://mysite.verizon.net/vze76ane/ -George- > Plan A: > If you want to mix your own I'd go with D-23 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Natural Light Black and White Photography > http://mysite.verizon.net/vze76ane/ George When needing a D23 I mix up an 8 - 80 gram formula one eighth formula at a time. I've found a 1 - 10 amount in 500ml of solution plenty for a roll of 120 film. One of these days I'll give a .5 - 5 portion at test using the same solution volume. I know a half gram of metol is more than enough to develop one roll of 120. If you were to use Steve Anchell's formula of 7.5 - 80 - 20, development in bath A would be curtailed. That 20 is bisulfite. Bath A then should last for many more rolls of film. D-76 should work at 1:3 with a 500ml volume. BTW, D23 makes a very good print developer. Results are similar to Ansco's 120; a metol only print developer with the same formula as Beer's A. Some additional exposure and longer development are required. One-shot - least chemistry with minimal solution volumes describes my method of processing. Dan > BTW, D23 makes a very good print developer. Results > are similar to Ansco's 120; a metol only print developer with > the same formula as Beer's A. Some additional exposure > and longer development are required. One-shot - least > chemistry with minimal solution volumes describes > my method of processing. Dan Without looking for Beer's A developer what is the dilution you use for D23 and prints? Signature"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 www.gregblankphoto(dot)com > Without looking for Beer's A developer what is the dilution > you use for D23 and prints? > > www.gregblankphoto(dot)com I've run a few tests with Arista Gr 2 RC 5 x 7 using an 8 and 80 gram metol - sulfite formula D23. I only mix an eighth portion; 1 and 10 grams. That much I've used in 500ml of solution on a few rolls of 120 film. A one quarter portion of that, .25 and 2.5 grams, was used in 125ml of solution for testing on paper. On a liter basis that is 2 and 20 grams. It is one liter of an 8 - 80 formula D23 diluted 1:3. At that strength, 2 - 20, a liter will develope one 16 x 20. Beer's 1, Beer's A at it's suggested working strength, has the same formula as Ansco 120 at it's suggeste working strength. Save for dilution, the two are the same. I'm quite sure the two work in the same way as the metol - glycine portion of Adams' split Ansco 130. Beer's B is the hydroquinone portion. So for a VC paper developer use Ansco 120 or Beer's A and add Beer's B to either for contrast control. A. Adams' did the same with his split Ansco 130. Dan HC110 is a commercial developer, not something you want for fine grain. FX-39 1+ 17 for 8 minutes, is, I tell you, glorious. > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the > size of a walk in closet). Thanks. : I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep : coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the : size of a walk in closet). Thanks. Matt, I've gotten very good results developing Delta-100 with Infotek(?) DDX. I diluted it 1+9, developed at 75F and as always used it one shot. Signature------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you >I've gotten very good results developing Delta-100 with Infotek(?) DDX. Ilfotec DD-X >I diluted it 1+9, developed at 75F and as always used it one shot. I use it at 1+4, and have also been pleased with the results. > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the > size of a walk in closet). Thanks. happens half the time. Recently i couldn't get Rodinal of course and the same thing happenned, of course. Just dilute more. when it comes out right, it's right. Bob Hickey I develop about 75% of the recommended time. "Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights". If printing a sunlit scene, I'll use no PC filter, if it's a diffuse scene then I'll use a #3 PC. Works for me with Ilford HP5 and either HC110 or D76. Ray >> I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives > keep [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > right, > it's right. Bob Hickey You didn't say what dilution or agitation or film you are using. If using Dilution B try using the unofficial dilution H and develop for twice as long. Michael Covington has some good info too, see: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ Signaturedarkroommike > I'm using HC-110 and carefully following instructions, yet my negatives keep > coming out with too much contrast. I've tried carefully controlling my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, I'm a newbie, relatively speaking (two years self-taught, darkroom the > size of a walk in closet). Thanks. > You didn't say what dilution or agitation or film you are using. If using > Dilution B try using the unofficial dilution H and develop for twice as > long. Michael Covington has some good info too, see: > http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ Thanks, you're right, though I did mention the film in the subject line. I'm using dilution B with full inversions for 10 seconds of every minute. Reading the Ilford spec sheet just now, I see that's a bit much on the agitaion as they recommend four inversions during the first 10 seconds of every minute. SignatureRegards, Matt Clara www.mattclara.com > > You didn't say what dilution or agitation or film you are using. If using > > Dilution B try using the unofficial dilution H and develop for twice as [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Matt Clara > www.mattclara.com This thread has now run to an enormous number of messages and I haven't read them all so could be repeating what someone has already said. Contrast is a function of development time. Of course agitation also affects it but, if you use a reasonable agitation routine what you need to do to reduce contrast is to reduce time. The contrast required for your particular printing equipment and materials may not be Ilford's target contrast. For consisitently high contrast try reducing development time by 1/3rd. If the required time falls below about 6 minutes in a tank dilute the developer to obtain a long time for the same contrast. Diluting one part developer and one part water will increase time for a given contrast by about 1.5 times. For conventional type emulsions reduction of development time by 33% will reduce negative contrast by about 1 paper grade. For tabular grain emulsions like Delta or T-Max about 25% reduction in time will result in the same contrast reduction. This change in development time affects the _effective_ film speed by about 3/4 stop requiring an increase to maintain the same highlight density. If your highlight densities are too high then keep the lesser exposure and test. Begin with 25% or 33.3% and see what you get. For some films you may have to reduce development time by half. Agitation makes a difference. For a given contrast the difference between small tank agitation, that is 5 seconds every 30 seconds (Kodak recommendation) or 10 seconds once a minute (Ilford recommendation) and continuous agitation (tray development) is around 20% but this varies with the film type. There is essentially no difference in results between the Kodak and Ilford methods although some tanks may produce less surge effects with one or the other. Again, the rule is: Overall density is proportional to exposure; contrast is proportional to development. Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com I've used Delta 100 for years, but don't develop it in HC110. I use a homebrew similar to Xtol. 1 tsp. (5 g) Sodium Carbonate 1/2 tsp. (4 g) Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C crystals) 2 ml 1% Phenidone solution (1 g Phenidone dissolved in 90% alcohol) Develop for 7:30 at 70 F. That will get you close on the first try. You may have the adjust the time a little. >You didn't say what dilution or agitation or film you are using. If using >Dilution B try using the unofficial dilution H and develop for twice as >long. Michael Covington has some good info too, see: >http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ > > |
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