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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005

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NaOH Solution

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lew - 26 Nov 2005 21:17 GMT
I'd like to keep my NaOH available in solution to make handling easier.
What's the maximum concentration I can use safely?
-Lew
Malcolm Stewart - 26 Nov 2005 23:21 GMT
> I'd like to keep my NaOH available in solution to make handling easier.

> -Lew

Beware of keeping it in a glass stoppered bottle.  Seem to remember that it
fuses glass to glass.

> What's the maximum concentration I can use safely?
Depends on your competence, and whether there are untrained people at risk -
see the published safety sheets for guidance.
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M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

Gregory Blank - 26 Nov 2005 23:41 GMT
> > I'd like to keep my NaOH available in solution to make handling easier.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Depends on your competence, and whether there are untrained people at risk -
> see the published safety sheets for guidance.

Well I considered the question; but I see you found a better "Solution"
to his problem,.....one that seems to have just been LYEING dormant >:-D
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

www.gregblankphoto(dot)com

Michael Gudzinowicz - 27 Nov 2005 04:54 GMT
> I'd like to keep my NaOH available in solution to make handling easier.
> What's the maximum concentration I can use safely?

This is one of my old r.p.d. posts:

Often in labs, it is used as a 50 wt% (w/w, not w/v) solution
since it doesn't absorb carbon dioxide or more water to an
appreciable extent. The solution is weighed when a definite
amount of sodium hydroxide is required. In the instance
of a 50 wt % solution, one would use 2 grams of solution
for each gram of NaOH.

If you intend to use it in that manner, care must be used
when dissolving the sodium hydroxide. While dissolving,
the solution temperature can easily exceed that of boiling
water, and common containers made of plastic will melt,
and glass will crack. The solution is very caustic, and
can cause immediate damage to skin (deep ulcers) or blindness.

For "casual" use such as toners, the crystals are probably
more convenient, and easier to handle.

The 50 wt% NaOH solutions are available from numerous chemical
suppliers, university labs, and local supply houses.

If you decide to make a concentrated NaOH solution, consider
using a pyrex flask or beaker in an ice bath and sink to mix
the solution, and wear eye/face protection, heavy rubber
gloves and an apron.

To make up 200 grams of a 50 wt % solution, cool 100 ml
(100 g) of water in the flask, and add small portions (few grams)
of sodium hydroxide (total 100 g) over a long time period
(hours) to permit the solution to cool. The cooled solution
should be kept in a plastic bottle used for chemical storage
or perhaps one which contained liquid developer concentrate.
Label it, store it in a tray in case the bottle leaks,
and keep it away from curious people.
lew - 27 Nov 2005 05:29 GMT
Any reason I shouldn't add it to a slush of crushed ice and cool water?
>> I'd like to keep my NaOH available in solution to make handling easier.
>> What's the maximum concentration I can use safely?
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Label it, store it in a tray in case the bottle leaks,
> and keep it away from curious people.
Michael Gudzinowicz - 27 Nov 2005 14:58 GMT
> Any reason I shouldn't add it to a slush of crushed ice and cool water?

You can try to add a small amount to ice, but the NaOH will melt the ice
and it will heat up markedly. It's safer to add a small amount (10% or
so) to the water, let it dissolve, and permit the solution to cool
before the next addition.

As I said:

> "If you intend to use it in that manner, care must be used
> when dissolving the sodium hydroxide. While dissolving,
> the solution temperature can easily exceed that of boiling
> water, and common containers made of plastic will melt,
> and glass will crack. The solution is very caustic, and
> can cause immediate damage to skin (deep ulcers) or blindness.

BTW, the 50% solution is inconvenient to use. Since it is a W/W
mixture (50 g NaOH + 50 g (ml) H2O), the amount of 50% solution required
must be weighed before use. It isn't measured by volume. The advantage
over dry NaOH is that the weight is more accurate since carbonates and
water alter the composition of the crystals.

If you want a solution that is convenient to use, make up a 10% W/V
solution by adding 10g NaOH to 80 ml water, and after it dissolves,
bring the volume to 100 ml. Then if you need 0.5 g, pour out 5 ml. That
approach is more than accurate enough for photographic processing.
John - 27 Nov 2005 16:57 GMT
> If you want a solution that is convenient to use, make up a 10% W/V
> solution by adding 10g NaOH to 80 ml water, and after it dissolves,  
> bring the volume to 100 ml. Then if you need 0.5 g, pour out 5 ml. That  
> approach is more than accurate enough for photographic processing.

Methinks that carbonates are much easier to deal with and just as good (?)  
for photographic use.

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Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster
http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com

dan.c.quinn@att.net - 27 Nov 2005 21:55 GMT
> Methinks that carbonates are much easier to deal
> with and just as good (?)  for photographic use.

 A change of heart? Thinking back to carbonated
developers and acid stops. Dan
John - 27 Nov 2005 22:22 GMT
>> Methinks that carbonates are much easier to deal
>> with and just as good (?)  for photographic use.
>>
>  A change of heart? Thinking back to carbonated
> developers and acid stops. Dan

LOL ! You have an excellent memory ! Actually I swore off carbonates along  
with hydroxides quite some time ago. I still have a couple of pounds of  
metaborate left and then that will probably cease as well. Borax and  
sulfite are just fine ;>)

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Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster
http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com

Michael Gudzinowicz - 29 Nov 2005 04:15 GMT
>> If you want a solution that is convenient to use, make up a 10% W/V
>> solution by adding 10g NaOH to 80 ml water, and after it dissolves,  
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Methinks that carbonates are much easier to deal with and just as good
> (?)  for photographic use.

Buurrrppp....

The 50% solution is convenient to use in a lab to adjust the pH of
concentrated buffers. Less concentrated solutions are useful if you
want to remove the emulsion from plates or film, or dilute solutions
may be used to induce reticulation, though carbonate is more controllable.
Nicholas O. Lindan - 28 Nov 2005 00:44 GMT
> If you want a solution that is convenient to use, make up a 10% W/V
> solution by adding 10g NaOH to 80 ml water, and after it dissolves,
> bring the volume to 100 ml. Then if you need 0.5 g, pour out 5 ml. That
> approach is more than accurate enough for photographic processing.

A 10% w/v stock solution is used in graphic arts.  It is
diluted to 1% w/v for use in developing [dissolving, really]
resist.  When exposed to UV the resist washes off easily
in 1% NaOH solution. - some resists work the other way and
wash off if _not_ exposed to UV.  What this has to do with
what concentration to use for a stock solution is
a mystery to me too.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com

 
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