Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2005
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Tim - 24 Nov 2005 23:58 GMT There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not sure that's the whole story.
Here's an example of what I mean, from Nikola Borissov's collection on Photo.net: <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3714827>
How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? Thanks for any hints, -Tim
Nicholas O. Lindan - 25 Nov 2005 02:19 GMT > <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3714827> > > How is this done? With a digital camera and Photoshop.
> Clever lighting? Tricky processing? Lots of attention to contrast control. Burning and dodging of the sort you wouldn't attempt in a darkroom.
Notice the darkening around the beard - the shirt goes to black. The halo on the head and shirt yoke just isn't right for natural lighting - not without a whole lot of gobos, snoots and barn-doors.
To me it looks contrived, the modification is too heavy handed for my taste.
For instant attention it is very good - striking. A beer advert maybe.
If you were going to attempt this in silver I would start with Tri-X and a thin-ish negative - don't overexpose or overdevelop. Print on #4 - #5 paper.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
Tim - 05 Dec 2005 22:33 GMT Thanks for all the replies. I will be trying some of the suggestions (though not the digicam & photoshop technique!)
-Tim
>><http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3714827> >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > start with Tri-X and a thin-ish negative - don't > overexpose or overdevelop. Print on #4 - #5 paper. Nicholas O. Lindan - 05 Dec 2005 22:48 GMT > Thanks for all the replies. I will be trying some > of the suggestions As Richard suggested, contrast/unsharp masking is probably needed. For this it is nice to have a large format negative, though it can be done with 6x6cm. To get the grain with a large format neg. you can use a 'texture screen'.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
John - 25 Nov 2005 06:03 GMT > Here's an example of what I mean, from Nikola Borissov's collection on > Photo.net: > <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3714827> > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? > Thanks for any hints, > -Tim Two lights and a reflector. Looks like two softboxes with the diffusers removed. A little dodge-&-burn as well. Too busy. No expression. No message. I give it a D+.
 Signature Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com
Gregory Blank - 25 Nov 2005 14:09 GMT > > Here's an example of what I mean, from Nikola Borissov's collection on > > Photo.net: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > removed. A little dodge-&-burn as well. Too busy. No expression. No > message. I give it a D+. Too much contrast, and jeesh they could have used that bottle in a little better position ;-)
 Signature "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
www.gregblankphoto(dot)com
Lawrence Akutagawa - 25 Nov 2005 06:54 GMT > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? > Thanks for any hints, Photoshop, of course. Per the creed of the digital folks out there - straight out of Irving Berlin from way back when:
"Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you"
:-) Richard Knoppow - 25 Nov 2005 09:34 GMT >> How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? >> Thanks for any hints, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > :-) Note that in the "Details" section it says this was photographed with a Nikon D70, a digital camera. One can achieve similar effects with wet photography but probably not the identical image. I suspect part of the effect is due to texture enhancment through the use of the "unsharp mask" feature of Photoshop or some other image manipulator. Again, a similar, but not identical, effect can be gotten with conventional photgraphy.
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
UC - 26 Nov 2005 20:00 GMT Lookks like plain ol' high contrast to me. The image is not very appealing for that reason.
> >> How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? > >> Thanks for any hints, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk@ix.netcom.com UC - 26 Nov 2005 20:00 GMT Looks like plain ol' high contrast to me. The image is not very appealing for that reason.
> >> How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? > >> Thanks for any hints, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk@ix.netcom.com Gregory Blank - 25 Nov 2005 14:07 GMT > > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? > > Thanks for any hints, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > :-) You mean Irving Penn, Berlin is the composer.
 Signature "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
www.gregblankphoto(dot)com
Lawrence Akutagawa - 25 Nov 2005 17:19 GMT >> > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? >> > Thanks for any hints, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You mean Irving Penn, Berlin is the composer. gosh darn...learn something new everyday. This internet thing is a marvel of (mis)education and (mis)information. I always thought through all these many years that Irving Berlin did both music and lyrics of *Annie Get Your Gun*, as per:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Berlin
and
http://www.theatrehistory.com/american/musical009.html
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Get_Your_Gun
Tony Clarke - 25 Nov 2005 14:50 GMT > There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? At a guess, split-grade printing might come into it, which can allow you to play with both clean grey tones and sharp blacks, regardless of what you exposed your negative for (subject to the highlights being well-exposed of course). That and toning which also improves perceived contrast by making the shadows denser and a bit "colder".
Or at least it would if this were wet photography, but since he identifies the camera as a Nikon D70, therefore digital, it could be he's just got a little settings file hidden away in his Photoshop called "make it look like TriX"... Any amount of stock-specific curves can be simulated and saved, and it looks like he might have experimented with adding a bit of grain texture too - look at the greys in the foreground bottle. There's certainly a bit of neat lighting to lift the shapes, possibly a flashgun tucked behind the sitter to produce that backlit highlight on the hair and shoulders.
Agreed, nice pic. Meanwhile, as someone who's trying to go medium format on the very cheap, it just makes me want to go back in the darkroom and carry on learning...
Tony Clarke
R.W. Behan - 25 Nov 2005 17:04 GMT IF this had been done in film, it was underexposed and overdeveloped. The highlights on the beard and hair are blocked solid, the shadows--e.g.,the man's chest beneath his open shirt--are totally black. These are the standards for POOR print quality and yes, they can certainly be violated for artistic effect--as they seem to have been here. But I disagree with this photographer's intent; the print looks far too harsh, and to me it give the subject a somewhat sinister aura--which stands in stark contrast to his expression of amiability. The picture is far too contrasty for my preference. Striking in some respects, but I agree with an earlier comment: it would make a good beer advertisement.
> There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out light > and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not sure [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks for any hints, > -Tim Mike King - 25 Nov 2005 18:12 GMT Can be done with film as well as pixels. It's hard light, high contrast printing. I would probably use a green filter (Nikon X1) to make his skin darker and add contrast to the blemishes. The image is back lit and fill light has been applied by flash or reflector.
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> There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks for any hints, > -Tim Michael Gudzinowicz - 26 Nov 2005 01:07 GMT > There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How is this done? Clever lighting? Tricky processing? Poomph, or poor taste...
If you drag it into Photoshop and hit the “blur more” filter, it will begin to resemble a “silver” photo rather than a caricature of one. Work from that image by hitting the “sharpen” filter repeatedly to replicate the “darkroom” manipulation. Change the mode to “grayscale” from “RGB” to determine the amount of “toning” that was applied.
Fortunately, no one will mistake the shopped image for a LF contact or will they someday soon?
Without the distractions/detractions and with some DOF, it could be a more revealing portrait. Apparently this has become the digital interpretation of the old "soot and chalk" effect.
(Backlighting with fill on each side of the camera.)
UC - 26 Nov 2005 01:36 GMT This is technically not a very good image at all.
> There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks for any hints, > -Tim Michael Gudzinowicz - 26 Nov 2005 01:43 GMT > There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not > sure that's the whole story. I apologize for being sidetracked by the digital example you used. If you are interested in well done silver based photos, please take a look through all of the Ralph Gibson archive on his website, check out his books (you can get them through interlibrary loans) and look at real prints.
http://ralphgibson.com/archive/index.php?album=1
For most of his work, Gibson used Leica rangefinders with Tri-X developed in Rodinal 1+25 for 11 min @ 68F to give sharp grain. Film speed varied from 100 to 800+ (try 200 for "average" lighting). The prints often were done on contrasty G3 or G4 paper, with appropriate dodging and burning to compress the overall and selective scale to the paper, which enhances the film's granularity and luminosity.
There really isn't a "pushbutton" equivalent in PShop.
Mike
Mike King - 26 Nov 2005 07:34 GMT There's a great Yosuf Karsh photo of Ernest Hemmingway that's a bit like what you want, too. See www.afterimagegallery.com/karshhemmingway.htm
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> > > There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Mike UC - 26 Nov 2005 20:13 GMT High contrast, that's all.
> There's a certain look to some people's B&W images, which brings out > light and texture wonderfully. The contrast is very high, but I'm not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks for any hints, > -Tim borissov - 16 Dec 2005 09:10 GMT Actually I must say I'm pretty flattered by this discussion. Unfortunatelly, none of you guessed right, you masters of the darkroom :- This photograph is taken with a Nikon D70+ Af-D 50/1.4. No flash, no softbox, no reflectors, nothing (Oh, I just love the way somebody decided about the lights I've used. How sure you are, isn't it charming?). f2.8, 200 ASA No burn&dodge, only 3 layers with different "gradient tool" applied. And some contrast and USM. That's it. 5 minutes, maybe less
Ah, and yes - a bottle of brandy, each! I was extremely drunk when I took this series of photographs, I didn't even notice the bottle..
I actually prefer these
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=370609
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=369963
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=371482
Anyway, I don't like the attitude of most of the guys who replied before me. So you like to j.rk off in dark rooms, big deal - that doesn't make you a photographer
-- borissov
borissov - 17 Dec 2005 10:50 GMT Scott, nope I wasn't, I found this forum looking in google for my name (I had a good reason to do that!). On the other hand, de gustibus non disputandum est, and I certainly do not consider the image to be "heavily processed"
Draco: thank you! If you (or somebody else) are interested in my "5 min conversion", I could write a mini-tutorial and post it here. Greetz
-- borissov
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