Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005
Efke film developing
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pslaviero@interfree.it - 23 Nov 2005 18:19 GMT Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for another developer. I've seen it is possible to use D76 for example. Anyone have experience with it?
Thank you to all.
P.
Richard Knoppow - 23 Nov 2005 18:32 GMT > Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 > ISO film, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > P. Any standard developer will work with it. From my experience with other films times for D-76 full strength will be similar to those for Rodinal at 1:25 and for D-76 1:1 about the same as Rodinal 1:50. If you have been using Rodinal at high dilutions to enhance acutance its more difficult to find a replacment for it. Can you find Calbe chemistry where you are, they are supposed to be making a developer very similar, if not identical, to Rodinal. I sure hope Agfa Photo can find a way to survive its current troubles.
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
pslaviero@interfree.it - 23 Nov 2005 19:08 GMT Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book the Crawley's FX1 formulation. I'm a chemist and in my lab I have all components. Anchell says this is a good developer for slow -speed films. What do you think about this?
P.
Nick Zentena - 23 Nov 2005 19:46 GMT > Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've > used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book > the Crawley's FX1 formulation. I'm a chemist and in my lab I have all > components. Anchell says this is a good developer for slow -speed > films. What do you think about this? If you have access to chemicals then why not mix your own rodinal? http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/rodinal.php That one claims to be the a Rodinal formula. Nick
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Rod Smith - 23 Nov 2005 20:32 GMT > Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've > used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book > the Crawley's FX1 formulation. I'm a chemist and in my lab I have all > components. Anchell says this is a good developer for slow -speed > films. What do you think about this? I've no experience with FX-1, but if you're able to mix your own developers from scratch, you might want to consider Suzuki's DS-12:
http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/film-dev-recommend.html
I've not used it with Efke films, but I've been trying it with some others, including Ilford Pan F+ and Fomapan 200, and I like the negatives I get from it. Unfortunately, there are no times for Efke films in DS-12 in the Massive Dev Chart, or even for Efke in Ilfosol S (the developer Suzuki recommends basing DS-12 developing time starting points on), but if you're willing to shoot a test roll and carve it up into pieces, you should be able to get in the right ballpark pretty quickly.
 Signature Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
John - 24 Nov 2005 05:13 GMT > I've no experience with FX-1, but if you're able to mix your own > developers from scratch, you might want to consider Suzuki's DS-12: > http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/film-dev-recommend.html YAAD = Yet Another Ascorbate Developer. As if the ones on the market from Eastman Kodak, Ilford Ltd. and Paterson haven't proven to be buggy enough.
 Signature Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com
Lloyd Erlick - 24 Nov 2005 16:06 GMT >YAAD = Yet Another Ascorbate Developer. As if the ones on the market from >Eastman Kodak, Ilford Ltd. and Paterson haven't proven to be buggy enough. November 24, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,
But they're really healthy bugs! Not a cold among them. And they wear sandals...
regards, --le
Martin Jangowski - 24 Nov 2005 08:39 GMT > I've no experience with FX-1, but if you're able to mix your own > developers from scratch, you might want to consider Suzuki's DS-12:
> http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/film-dev-recommend.html
> I've not used it with Efke films, but I've been trying it with some > others, including Ilford Pan F+ and Fomapan 200, and I like the negatives [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you're willing to shoot a test roll and carve it up into pieces, you > should be able to get in the right ballpark pretty quickly. On my homepage you'll find sensitometric data for Efke films and DS-12. These are density curves for different development times, you'll have to decide which time is approbiate for your environment.
http://www.jangowski.de/sensitometry/
Martin
alanrockwood2000@yahoo.com - 29 Nov 2005 14:10 GMT Martin,
Could you explain your sensitometry charts?
Thanks.
Alan
. . .
> On my homepage you'll find sensitometric data for Efke films and > DS-12. These are density curves for different development times, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Martin Martin Jangowski - 29 Nov 2005 14:53 GMT > Martin,
> Could you explain your sensitometry charts? These are the density values created by the 21 steps of an 0.15d steptablet. Just put the exposure (second column going from 0.00 .. 3.00) on the x-axis of a sheet and the value of one column (corresponding to one development time) and you will get the density curve for this developer and time.
Three curves are found here:
http://www.jangowski.de/sensitometry/APX100.jpg
These graph shows two developments with identical times (the dark blue and the violet curve) with DS-12 and one with DS-10 (the yellow one). It is obvious that DS-10 isn't working well with APX100, it looses more than 1 1/2 f-stops in the shadows (the part with a density of about 0.10) and gives about the same speed in the highlights (six f-stops higher at 2.25 exposure).
Martin
Jan T - 23 Nov 2005 21:13 GMT At those dillutions I'd advise you to switch to Adox R09, that is the late Calbe, and it's based upon the Rodinal formula. I ordered mine online on www.fotoimpex.de, they ship to Belgium (and I think within Europe) for 10?. If you order some extra film, paper,... 10? is almost free.
Mixing one's own Rodinal is OK if you have experience with mixing chemicals, as the Rodinal formula is said to be potentially _very_ dangerous. I wouldn't try it for myself, as both Rodinal and Adox R09 are relatively cheap products, and hence not worth taking the risks
| Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've | used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | P. Lloyd Erlick - 24 Nov 2005 16:15 GMT On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:13:40 +0100, "Jan T" <jant@TAKETHISAWAYBEFOREYOUMAILtiscali.be> wrote:
>the Rodinal formula is said to be potentially _very_ dangerous. November 24, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,
I doubt this. Ordinary care in handling, as is consistent with any darkroom activity, is sufficient. Rodinal contains potassium hydroxide, which is dangerous, but it is easily within the ability of any adult to handle it safely. It will not jump out of its container or off or out of anything to attack the user.
I used to withdraw commercial Rodinal stock from its bottle with a mouth-operated pipette. Once I was too enthusiastic and ended up with a good swig of Rodinal. I hastily spit it in the sink and swilled with changes of cold water. I had no injury or any effects at all. Most certainly something to be avoided, but hardly a danger to any prudent, rational person. A competent chemist or other worker could easily teach a ten year old to handle Rodinal or its components safely.
I think darkroom or chemical safety should be based on knowledge and facts and skill and experience. Fear and irrational belief are counterproductive.
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
John - 25 Nov 2005 05:53 GMT > Rodinal contains potassium > hydroxide, which is dangerous, but it is > easily within the ability of any adult to > handle it safely. It will not jump out of its > container or off or out of anything to attack > the user. I'll never forget the first time I handled hydroxide. Back when I was in high school chemistry class. I had the smoothest hands in the class as it ate my fingerprints off !
 Signature Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com
Lloyd Erlick - 25 Nov 2005 14:54 GMT >> Rodinal contains potassium >> hydroxide, which is dangerous, but it is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >high school chemistry class. I had the smoothest hands in the class as it >ate my fingerprints off ! November 25, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,
It's that funny English language! The word is 'handle', but it doesn't mean with your bare hands, eh??
When I was in high school chemistry, the mercury was in a little bowl under the demonstration barometer. Every time class began and the teacher was not in yet, that puddle of mercury got dipped by many -- um, hands ...
regards, --le
 Signature ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________
Richard Knoppow - 24 Nov 2005 04:45 GMT > Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And > efefctively I've [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > P. I am not familiar with FX1 so can't comment on it. Two others have suggested on-line developer formulas. On is on the Silver-grain site. This is run by Ryuji Suzuki who is a very knowledgable chemist who has researched emulsion making and other aspects of photo chemistry. His formulas are trustworthy. The other site has a formula supposidly for Rodinal but it does not look right to me. For one thing is specifies sodium hydroxide where Rodinal contains Potassium hydroxide. The main difference is in the solubility. The Potassium salt is considerably more soluble in water than the Sodium salt. Also, there is no indication in any other Rodinal formula I've seen of the use of metabisulfite. Rodinal does contain Potassium sulfite. The prodedure for making Rodinal does require care mainly because of the generous amount of heat generated by the hydroxide as it goes in solution. As a knowledgible chemist this should not present any problems for you. High acutance developers were popular when film had much less resoluton than it does now. Mainly, its purpose is to compensate for poor film sharpness and poor optics. It does so at the expense of greater grain and probably some loss of actual resolution. If the EFKE film is similar to the original Agfa film it should be single coated with a fairly thin emulsion. The virtue of that is lack of scattering in the emulsion with attendant gain in resoluton and sharpness. Since the actual formula for Rodinal is proprietary its not available in any publication. Some pubished formulas may be exact but many of them seem to be guesswork.
 Signature --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com
John - 24 Nov 2005 04:59 GMT > Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've > used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > P. Rodinal is an excellent formula for fine-grained films however you will loose about 1/3rd to 1/2 stop of film speed. I personally would use D-23. It's easy to mix, keeps well and produces finer grained and sharper images than Rodinal. If you need a higher EI than 25, go with Microphen which will give you a good EI50 with this film.
 Signature Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com
John - 24 Nov 2005 05:17 GMT > I'm a chemist and in my lab I have all > components. Kodak's D-23 Water @ 125F Elon Sod. Sulfite Water to make 750.0ml 7.5g 100.0g 1.0L This has probably been the most utilized developer in the history of black and white photography ! It's simplicity and good all around working characteristics have endeared it to many fine art photographers.
BTW, if you are using TMX-100 or TMX-400 I strongly recommend this developer. It gives T-grained films the finest grain I've ever seen and keeps the highlights in check.
Development times for full strength at 70F are; TMX -100 -- 9.5 min TMY- 400 -- 8.0 min.
Development times for a 1:1 dilution at 70F are;
TMX -100 -- 14min. TMY- 400 -- 12min.
Development times for a 1:3 dilution at 70F are; TMX - 100 -- 21 min. TMY - 400 -- 20min.
Elon - Metol Monomethyl paraaminophenol sulfate - CH3NHC6H4OH)2H2SO4 Molecular Weight : 344 Characteristic : Off-white crystalline solid CAS No. - 55-55-0
 Signature Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com
Andrew Price - 24 Nov 2005 18:22 GMT >Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. You can order them through Fotoimpex in Berlin:
<http://fotoimpex.de/CalbeFotochemie/index.html>
>And efefctively I've >used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. The Rodinal equivalent made by Calbe is the R09.
Frank Pittel - 28 Nov 2005 06:38 GMT : Unfortunatly I'm not able to find Calbe products. And efefctively I've : used a 1+100 diluition with Rodinal. I've found on Steve Anchell book : the Crawley's FX1 formulation. I'm a chemist and in my lab I have all : components. Anchell says this is a good developer for slow -speed : films. What do you think about this? I've been using a variation of fx-2 made by photographers formulary called tfx-2. The advantage is that fx-2 gives better tonal graduation. I intend to mix up my own version of fx-2 in the future.
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Geoffrey S. Mendelson - 28 Nov 2005 11:00 GMT > I've been using a variation of fx-2 made by photographers formulary called > tfx-2. The advantage is that fx-2 gives better tonal graduation. I intend to > mix up my own version of fx-2 in the future. I've had good results with it since it was Adox KB-14 (same film, but different manufacurer and name) using Edwal FG-7. FG-7 is unavailable here since the one store that carried it went out of business and the manfacturer was sold.
The new manufacturer lists it as a "hazzardous product" and cannot be shipped by air, so I can't get anyone to bring me a bottle back from the U.S. The formula has not changed, but the definition of "hazzardous product" for air shipping has (possibly post 9/11).
Geoff.
 Signature Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication.
Rod Smith - 23 Nov 2005 20:27 GMT > Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, > but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for > another developer. I've seen it is possible to use D76 for example. > Anyone have experience with it? I've only shot two rolls of Efke KB25. I developed both in D-76, IIRC, but I don't recall the times I used. I probably got them off of the Massive Dev Chart:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html
There are times there for several other developers, too, so have a look and pick one that you like.
 Signature Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Nicholas O. Lindan - 24 Nov 2005 17:20 GMT > Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, > but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for > another developer. I've seen it is possible to use D76 for example. D76 will be a good choice for the film.
EFKE films are invented/developed/formulated to work with D76. D76 is the standard developer used internationally to determine the ASA/ISO speed of a film.
Almost ...
The 'standard developer' is very slightly different from packaged Kodak D76 but the two work identically. Ditto Ilford ID-11 and many many others.
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Andrew Price - 24 Nov 2005 18:23 GMT >Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, >but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for >another developer. I've seen it is possible to use D76 for example. Yes, Efke films work well with D76/ID11.
Frank Pittel - 28 Nov 2005 06:35 GMT : Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, : but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for : another developer. I've seen it is possible to use D76 for example. : Anyone have experience with it?
: Thank you to all.
: P. I don't see any reason that any normal developer won't provide good results with Efke-25. I for one have gotten incredible results with Efke-25 with tfx-2. I'm using a "semi-stand" development of 5 seconds of agitation every 3 minutes.
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UC - 28 Nov 2005 15:14 GMT > Hi, I've another problem. I have a large amount of EFKE 25 ISO film, > but it is no more possible to find here Rodinal! So I'm looking for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > P. Try 1:1 dilution for 4-5 minutes to start with...
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