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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005inkjet printer advice wanted
November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Well, here I am asking the darkroom group about a computer printer! Anyway, as many people here know, I use the computer to catalog and edit my work. Right now I have no printer at all. In the past I've always had bottom of the line printers, like the Epson 800 which I had until just a couple of years ago. I'd like to be able to print darkroom notes forms that include a thumbnail of the image I'm working on. And I'd like to print the occasional frame to see how it would look. Mostly I print text, though. Little prints to use as cover art for the CD of images I give clients is another use. Frankly, color capability is not necessary for me. But I'm sure all the printers I'd be likely to buy do color. I'd just like to be able to use black only and not have to concern myself about the status of the color cartridge(s). And I want to be able to print black whether or not the colors are full, empty or absent. Also, I'd really like to not have clogging issues ... I guess I'm just talking about a basic consumer printer. I just don't know which one is considered all around most suitable. Thanks for the brain picking ... regards, --le  Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > net: www.heylloyd.com > ________________________________ I bought a BW laser printer last year and have not used my 1280 more than about 4-5 times since. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >> November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > and have not used my 1280 more than about 4-5 > times since. I would have to concur, given the limited use Mr Erlick has in mind. I recently got an HP laser printer on eBay. Couple days ago, I put together an advertisement/order form for a daycare portrait shoot. ("Picture day is coming...") The ad had some B&W sample portraits and text. I printed it on my Canon inkjet printer and on the laser printer. The laser printer gave a much better result. As for cost of consumables (ink vs toner), I think the laser will be a cheaper printer. Since I haven't needed to replace the toner cartridge yet, I don't know how many pages it will print (toner cartridge costs about $70 at Staples). The Canon cartridges; actually ink-tanks; the nozzle section doesn't get replaced; cost about $12 each (3 colors plus black) and yield about 30-50 "utility quality" color prints, or about 150-200 pages of text. The Canon will print black if one or more of the color cartridges are empty, but it will give an annoying warning display with each page. I suspect that a missing ("absent") cartridge would cause nozzle problems because it wouldn't seal up when in the rest position. The biggest problem I have with the HP laser printer is paper feed, but I suspect that's why I got it so cheaply (~$30), and it has seen some use. Better quality/heavier paper feeds OK. SignatureKen Hart kwhart@aec.nu > I don't know how many pages it will print (toner cartridge costs about $70 > at Staples). 1,000's SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Does a laser printer still print decent looking images? I do have a use for them, just not as final products. I can't see myself messing with colored inks or pigments to achieve some sort of high end black and white prints, like quad tones or something. I'd rather learn platinum printing instead. I can't recall ever having had a use for color printer output. Most of my prints get colored with selenium toner. By the way, I did buy an Epson 4990 scanner after talking it over with members of this discussion group. So many thankyous to youse. (It's working very nicely, too, but I'm pretty undemanding...). regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > I can't see myself messing with colored inks > or pigments to achieve some sort of high end > black and white prints, like quad tones or > something. I think you may have to. The standard color inks do a piss-poor job of black and white. You will find you tweak things so it looks B&W under the light at your computer but it appears split-toned when illuminated with light of any other spectrum. There are now 'standard' B&W ink cartridges just for doing B&W, where the inks have no color of their own. If you need to do B&W I would base the printer choice on it's B&W capability: it suddenly becomes a small playing field. On ink costs: I refill cartridges - buying new h/p or Epson carts involves paying $2,000/gal for ink that cost h/p $80/gal. Epson and Canon carts are good forever [almost], h/p carts wear out because the inkjet nozzles are part of the cart. OTOH, nozzle clogging is a problem [and can be a real PITA] with Epson and Canon if you aren't going to use the printer [and all it's inks] every day. OTOF, TTBOMK there is no large B&W ink selection for h/p. On Topic: Now with silver, these problems aren't as one is using a technology that has had 150+ years of refinement -- but we all know that already. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm thanks for the fiine analysis! --le >> I can't see myself messing with colored inks >> or pigments to achieve some sort of high end [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >one is using a technology that has had 150+ years >of refinement -- but we all know that already. > November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > net: www.heylloyd.com > ________________________________ How soon do you want the printer? send me an address and I'll send you a file printed out on my fairly new HP 1320 it was about 300 with the rebate. Of course we are talking prints no bigger than? The printer does about 8x10 max. Its slow to start though on bigger files, proofing at say 150 dpi it may be suitable. I think you can buy more ram for it and it would print faster. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 I'm in no hurry. And I only need to print on ordinary letter size paper. Legal would be fine, but I don't care. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, 2219 Gerrard Street East, Unit #1, Toronto M4E 2C8 Canada. ...____ >How soon do you want the printer? send me an address >and I'll send you a file printed out on my fairly new HP 1320 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >say 150 dpi it may be suitable. I think you can buy more ram for it and >it would print faster. > Well, here I am asking the darkroom group > about a computer printer! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ________________________________ > -- A real coincidence. I've very likely a Mini Mac to install by the end of this month and will be shopping for a printer and scanner. A "basic" model printer may not be a good investment. I've not checked out printers for a few years. I think I would look for one color capability from the few cartriges used. That may take software cooperation. IIRC, there are several printers on the market which will take six or more colors. They are not at all expensive. Of course thousands can also be spent. One black out of six though? My impression: prices are WAY down from four years ago for same. Dan dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus: > My impression: prices are WAY down from > four years ago for same. Dan Printers, yes, Consumables, no. Check prices of cartridges. Remember, these guys aren't really selling printers. (Or more accurately, they're not making money selling printers.) Signature... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped, "I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient." (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) > November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, > > Well, here I am asking the darkroom group > about a computer printer! They're giving printers away - literally. I just got this one: http://tinyurl.com/amlco. An all-in-one no less. I just got it for the fax. At that price who could refuse? It actually may be cheaper to pay a few bucks tho and get the printer that's easiest to refill. IIRC that would be Canon. You might ask a refill company. I refill my now ancient Epson Photo 870 and it works great. Even 4x6 photos look great. Of course I'm not expecting archival quality but for the price who's complaining. Do you get Consumer Reports in the Great Frozen North? They do printers once in a while. Natural Light Black and White Photography http://mysite.verizon.net/vze76ane/ -George- Couple weeks ago I bought a Konica-Minolta Laser printer for my wife, just over $100 after rebate, the start-up cartridge did about 300 hundred pages, she's one of those that can't read articles on the monitor, when she does research for school she has to print out everything, the upside is that I no longer have highlighter marks on the monitor ;-). Anyway a new cartridge was $80 dollars and should last 5000 pages (text only). A set of cartridges for my Epson C-82 is about $80.00 and lasts about 100 pages (photo). One nozzle is clogged so I have to buy another inkjet printer soon. You can empty a cartridge trying to unclog a nozzle. I'm considering a close-out Canon iP4000, only $40.00 after rebate (and I still have the last rebate check burning a hole in my pocket!). It's a 5-tank printer, four for color images and a fifth for text only that uses a pigment ink. Additionally the Canon has three levels of "unclog" so you don't waste as much ink, no "chips" on cartridges, so you can refill if necessary, and the head is user replaceable (no shipping off for service!) and it has dual paper feed and duplex printing. So I'm off to Staples today. The laser is on my wife's PC, but is shared on the network, my Xerox P8ex laser is shared on a LinkSys print server, the Canon will be on the network as well. Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > November 13, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > net: www.heylloyd.com > ________________________________ > [Epson ink jet] One nozzle is clogged so I have to buy another inkjet > printer soon. You can empty a cartridge trying to unclog a nozzle. And isn't _that_ fun: the nozzle is still clogged; the cartridge is still full of ink; the printer reprograms the cart's chip to 'empty'; and I throw a $20 into the trash. I have a rechipper/cart reprogrammer - however I found some clone carts [Target] aren't rechippable and are even more prone to clogs. The nozzle assembly comes out pretty easily with 2 screws and a ribbon cable or two. A couple days soak in household ammonia works - or worked once - it's clogged again and I know I have wasted more $$ trying to get it unclogged than a new printer would cost. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm is clogging a problem Epsons are prone to?? -le >> [Epson ink jet] One nozzle is clogged so I have to buy another inkjet >> printer soon. You can empty a cartridge trying to unclog a nozzle. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >once - it's clogged again and I know I have wasted more $$ trying to get >it unclogged than a new printer would cost. > is clogging a problem Epsons are prone to?? > -le My Epson Photo 870 does on occassion but I think that's pretty much par for the course. Go to your favorite download site and get CCS Utility - software that cleans the nozzles, resets the timer and a lot more. Natural Light Black and White Photography http://mysite.verizon.net/vze76ane/ -George- SignatureIt is not our patriotic duty to send children to be butchered & slaughtered & to butcher & slaughter others every time a general or a politician gets a hardon for a war. Rather, it is our patriotic duty to demand the highest burden of proof to justify war. Epson uses a print head mounted in the machine vs. the HP approach where the cartridge is the print head. Additionally some Epson's use pigment ink instead of dye, more permanent but I suspect more prone to clogging. Great printers but they need to be used a lot, the occasional user (like myself) is the guy that has the problems. I did break down and buy the Canon (49.95 after rebate) and printed out one test scan and the color is excellent. Then had to print another on a sheet of Ilford Galerie Glossy Ink Jet paper and I'm in love. Also like the built in duplex printing for running out web pages. The Canon web print utility has issues and only works with Internet Explorer so will probably uninstall it but the rest is pretty good. Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > is clogging a problem Epsons are prone to?? > -le [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >once - it's clogged again and I know I have wasted more $$ trying to get > >it unclogged than a new printer would cost. > [Epson] Great printers but they need to be used a lot, the occasional user > (like myself)is the guy that has the problems. Like he said. The Epson I am pulling my hair out over is used once or twice a week. The CCS utility only works with _some_ printers and carts. The $12 chip reseters don't work with some clone carts. Don't buy TARGET store-brand carts. IMO pigment ink is death in an Epson, but again the printer is rarely used. Keep in mind: occasional use; this is my only contact with an epson ij. Salt available next to baking supplies in isle 6. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >> [Epson] Great printers but they need to be used a lot, the occasional user >> (like myself)is the guy that has the problems. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Keep in mind: occasional use; this is my only contact with >an epson ij. Salt available next to baking supplies in isle 6. November 16, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, And thank you too, Nicholas! My old Epson 800 died of a clog, I believe. I suffered with it for a while, even put a new black cartridge in it. Finally I had to introduce it to its new home between the sidewalk and the road. It did prosper there; at least, it found its way somewhere else. So it appears I should buy a lower level HP or Canon? Is there a specific model I should look for? Or would a laser printer really be the thing? (I always thought laser printers were no good for images? No doubt my knowledge is behind the times.) Thanks again, folks ... regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > So it appears I should buy a lower level HP > or Canon? Canon has the same clog problems as Epson. > Or would a laser printer really be > the thing? (I always thought laser printers > were no good for images? No doubt my > knowledge is behind the times.) I think a laser might be close to the last choice for black and white. They do ok on color: fuzzy but saturated, good for flyers for the company barbecue. And they don't run in the rain so you can use them for posters of your run-away cat. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >Canon has the same clog problems as Epson. ... >I think a laser might be close to the last choice >for black and white. ... November 16, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Thanks! I'm starting to see how little I know about printers. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ The Canon's may clog, but their cleaning utility comes in light and heavy modes so you don't waste as much ink and the print head can be replaced by the user. In fact you have to install the printhead when you first set up the printer. It also features a nifty automatic program to align the printhead. I've had mine less than a week but I love the quality and will keep the group posted if I have any problems. I also have a new Konica Laser for text and web pages so the Canon is reserved for only those applications where color really matters. Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > > > So it appears I should buy a lower level HP [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And they don't run in the rain so you can use them > for posters of your run-away cat. >Great >printers but they need to be used a lot, the occasional user (like myself) >is the guy that has the problems. November 16, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Thank you for this observation! I am definitely in the occasional user class myself. I never print images as finished product, just small ones and thumbnails on my darkroom notes. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ |
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