> If I scan an eight by ten RC glossy silver image is it possible to get a
> digital print equal to or better than a digital print of the same size ?
> I'm wondering because I think that I should continue with my darkroom work
> and intergrate with my digital darkroom work.
>
> bill
As a general rule you will get the best quality scanning the negative
not a print.
Scott
> If I scan an eight by ten RC glossy silver image is it possible to get
> a digital print equal to or better than a digital print of the same
> size ? I'm wondering because I think that I should continue with my
> darkroom work and intergrate with my digital darkroom work.
The answer for this one really depends on too many factors for an
accurate, short answer.
Each successive generation you work from on a particular image,
regardless of source, is going to reduce the detail. The negative will be
best, the initial print less so, a scan from that print further down, and a
print made from that scan will contain even less detail, contrast, range,
and so on.
The images from most high-end digital cameras, meanwhile, go through
a certain level of post-capture processing while in the camera - noise
reduction, contrast and saturation levels, color balancing, and sharpening.
This is one of the reasons people like the clarity of a good digital image.
A good 35mm negative, all other things being equal, will beat any
current generation digital image. Larger dynamic range and finer
resolution. But you'll lose some of this, as noted above, as you print it.
How much and in what way depends on a hundred different things.
And, once you scan it, you can also perform a lot of the same digital
tricks the camera does automatically. This takes more time and effort,
naturally, but you also have the ability to tailor it directly towards the
image and what you intend to do with it, as opposed to the camera's
automatic functions.
Have you kept up with all the pluses and minuses? I hope so, because
I'm lost myself. Basically, any three people performing a direct test are
likely to come up with three different answers.
In my own experience, a decent B&W neg simply blows away anything you
can do with digital. Getting that to paper, for me (I'm a novice in the
darkroom, just went in other directions), loses a lot of that. A good
darkroom tech would beat my efforts handily.
I've also scanned my negs, directly from film (no print middleman).
This reduces them, on my system, to 24-bit greyscale, way below the dynamic
range of the negative. However, when printing these, I often *reduce* the
range because I want the contrast sharper. And I've produced B&W prints
directly from negatives (classic darkroom), digital prints from scans of
B&W negatives, digital prints from digital camera images, and even digital
B&W prints from color negative scans. In very few of the cases was I too
concerned with what I might have lost - the end result was tailored to what
I wanted to show.
Your results, however, may vary greatly. I shoot with the thought
that I have a limited exposure range to work with (I often shoot high-
contrast color slide film), and my images aren't often intended to capture
a high dynamic range, or fine shadow detail. If that's what you're after,
you may find digital really sucks compared to good B&W film prints.
Confusing enough? I can try harder if you like ;-)
- Al.

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> If I scan an eight by ten RC glossy silver image is it possible to get a
> digital print equal to or better than a digital print of the same size ?
> I'm wondering because I think that I should continue with my darkroom work
> and intergrate with my digital darkroom work.
>
> bill
As a rule scanning the original negative is the best way to get the best
digital file, if you scan using a flatbed from a print you will have more
dust and imperfections to spot out of the digital file. This is because
small imperfections exist in all paper images, they are very small so
the eye doesn't see them but scanning brings them out. Also
because a negative typically is placed in a holder above the glass
their are less issues like moire to contend with as you may find with
glossy RC images.
That stated to give an alternate, two years ago I had a large 24 x 30
RC print made at my Pro Lab, at the time they could not use the drum
scanner to scan the 8x10 negative. Instead they scanned the 8x10 contact
print with a LF digital camera mounted on a copy stand- something like a
40-60k system......at the time I would have liked an optical fiber based
print but this was most cost effective for the application, the results
are good....but certainly not a silver based image.

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bill - 13 Nov 2005 13:39 GMT
Well most of my negatives are 35mm and some are 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 , 6 x 7 and
some large format. I have NOT been able to equal the silver print using
photoshop and thought perhaps I'm not corect in what I've been doing.
I also have many old negatives which are greater than 50 years old. I had in
mind that if I could get a good scan it would be simpler for me make prints
for sale. The darkroom work is interesting for me and I enjoy it very much
but it is time consuming but then again ....
BTW I use photoshop cs, an Epson 2200 printer, an Epson 3170 flatbed
scanner and a DiMAGE Scan Dual lll.
>> If I scan an eight by ten RC glossy silver image is it possible to get a
>> digital print equal to or better than a digital print of the same size ?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> print but this was most cost effective for the application, the results
> are good....but certainly not a silver based image.
Gregory Blank - 13 Nov 2005 14:21 GMT
> Well most of my negatives are 35mm and some are 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 , 6 x 7 and
> some large format. I have NOT been able to equal the silver print using
> photoshop and thought perhaps I'm not corect in what I've been doing.
The luminance values in Silver prints can't be equaled in Resin coated
or ink jet prints. On screen though you should be able to get close.
> I also have many old negatives which are greater than 50 years old. I had in
> mind that if I could get a good scan it would be simpler for me make prints
> for sale. The darkroom work is interesting for me and I enjoy it very much
> but it is time consuming but then again ....
Its no more time consumptive than scanning, the difference is darkroom
work requires being in the dark.
> BTW I use photoshop cs, an Epson 2200 printer, an Epson 3170 flatbed
> scanner and a DiMAGE Scan Dual lll.
How do you like the DiMage for 35mm got any scans you can post?

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LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Scott W - 13 Nov 2005 17:12 GMT
> Well most of my negatives are 35mm and some are 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 , 6 x 7 and
> some large format. I have NOT been able to equal the silver print using
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> BTW I use photoshop cs, an Epson 2200 printer, an Epson 3170 flatbed
> scanner and a DiMAGE Scan Dual lll.
I have a number of printer where the print is better quality then the
negative, this of course can not normaly happen but a fair number of my
old negatives have deteriated over time, more so then the print, could
this have happened to your negatives.
Or is it more a matter of the printing, if that is the case do a test
print at some place like Costco, it won't be on BW paper but it will
be on photographic paper.
Scott
alanrockwood2000@yahoo.com - 13 Nov 2005 18:58 GMT
Bill, how has been your experience with the Epson 2200printer? I have
one and it has not worked very well for me... colors are terrible, no
matter what kind of color management schemes I have tried, and I have
tried several.
Alan