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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005safelight -- 'Lamp Dip' Rosco's Colorine
November 7, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,, I've been poking about making my darkroom functional again, and the topic of safelights has intruded upon my mind. Here is a web page I found that might be of interest: (I haven't tried this, so I can't say if one of the red lamp dips is actually safe for photo materials. Maybe someone on the darkroom list is familiar with this product.) ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/TechBase/collit_ColoringLight.html#LampDip Lamp Dip Lamp dip is a paint-like liquid specially designed to be applied to a lamp by painting on the glass envelope, or dipping the bulb into the liquid. This leaves a film on the lamp that colors the light. Lamp dip is designed to work in hot environments like the surface of a lamp, but it has limitations, and will burn off extremely hot lamps. Check the manufacturer's specifications to find the limitations of the product. There are probably several outfits that make stuff like this, but the most famous is Rosco's Colorine, which was the first product that the company made, back in 1910. Colors are described as "brilliant and long lasting", but "not for permanent installations." Another reference suggests Colorine for use on incandescent lamps of 40W or less. part number color Roscolux filter equivalent 07601 Cardinal Red 26 07602 Ruby Red 27 07603 Magenta 49 ... Colorine is only available in pints. It costs a little over $14/pint as of January 2004. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ regards, --le  Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > Colorine is only available in pints. It costs > a little over $14/pint as of January 2004. How many bulbs do you intend to coat! Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk Just one. A Lot!! >> Colorine is only available in pints. It costs >> a little over $14/pint as of January 2004. > > How many bulbs do you intend to coat! If coating a 25w globe lamp would give you something like a Delta 1 safelight bulb, you would only need to coat one or two bulbs to start to save money. The Delta 1 bulbs must be coated with something similar to this, but I have no idea whether they have their own special coating or buy it from a third party. The curves for the Roscolux #27 filter would seem to indicate that it would be a reasonable substitute for a #1A filter. I would be very interested if someone were to test it and report their findings. Another idea for saving money on safelights is to use a few layers of rubylith as a safelight filter. If there were lighting gels which were known to be safe, they might be attractive also. The proper safelight filters from Kodak and Ilford have got rather expensive, though they do last a long time in domestic use. Peter. Signaturepirwin@ktb.net > The curves for the Roscolux #27 filter would seem to > indicate that it would be a reasonable substitute for > a #1A filter. I would be very interested if someone > were to test it and report their findings. Your the perfect candidate :-) >> The curves for the Roscolux #27 filter would seem to >> indicate that it would be a reasonable substitute for >> a #1A filter. I would be very interested if someone >> were to test it and report their findings. > > Your the perfect candidate :-) I think I will try the experiment. I've been using an Ilford safelight and filter lately, but I'm always trying to convince people to start their own darkrooms and a source of cheap and effective safelights would be a good thing to know about. Having an extra safelight in a dark corner might be nice too. Peter. Signaturepirwin@ktb.net >Having an extra safelight in >a dark corner might be nice too. November 8, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, That's what I'd like. Now that I'm an aged pea, my eyes would really like a little light where they're expected to see. Small safelight bulbs under my cabinets and in the far corners and down the passage to my print washer would be very nice. I'd also like a bit of light around my feet wherever I'd have to walk, and to help find things that get dropped. Christmas tree bulbs are all over the place right now, and soon they will be getting sold off cheap by the retailers. They don't have such a long lifespan, but if dipping them is cheap it should be OK. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ >>Having an extra safelight in >>a dark corner might be nice too. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >pea, my eyes would really like a little light >where they're expected to see. Haven't tried them, but there are strings of xmas tree bulbs made from LEDs now. I'd bet the red ones are safe, and cheap...and so festive! Chris Ellinger Ann Arbor, MI USA > Small safelight bulbs under my cabinets and > in the far corners and down the passage to my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > lifespan, but if dipping them is cheap it > should be OK. Lamp life can be quadrupled with the little 'energy saver' discs they sell for screw-in lightbulbs. They are just a 1/2 wave rectifier so the lamp runs on ~1/2 the voltage. I don't know if anyone makes a 'plug-in' version for Xmas tree lights, probably not as you can start a fire by plugging a transformer or squirrel cage motor into rectified/dc current. My safelights get left on overnight/week/month and burn out. I use 7 1/2 watt bulbs in Kodak bullet safelights. I have been meaning to try ~15 watt bulbs and the discs - not to 'save' energy but just to not run out of bulbs so fast. BTW: the 'energy saver' discs waste energy: they decrease the amount of light more than they extend the life of the bulb. I would recommend a lower wattage bulb if that's all that's needed. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >> Small safelight bulbs under my cabinets and >> in the far corners and down the passage to my [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I would recommend a lower wattage bulb if that's all > that's needed. Why not just use a dimmer switch for the safelight circuit? Or just wire a small diode in one side of the AC line cord or plug? (BTW, I respectfully (and cautiously, considering your sig line!) take exception with your last 'graph-- "waste energy". Assume that you have two 7.5W bulbs, each with a diode in line. One bulb is lit on the positive side of the sine wave, the other on the negative side. The two bulbs combined use the entire sine wave and put out a total of 15 W. Each bulb is only putting out half the heat as it would at full power, so the filaments should last longer. ) SignatureKen Hart kwhart@aec.nu > (BTW, I respectfully (and cautiously, considering your sig line!) take > exception with your last 'graph-- "waste energy". Assume that you have two [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out half the heat as it would at full power, so the filaments should last > longer. ) No they don't quite work that way. Incandesent bulbs put out 90% heat, 10% light at normal operating temperatures. At high temps, they are brighter, bluer and last a lot less time. If you remember the the 3400k Photoflood bulbs of yesteryear, they only lasted about 4 hours. It wasn't because the bulbs were designed to burn out quickly, it was because those extra 200k cost a lot in filament life. Running a lamp on a dimmer, or using a diode extends filament life because it runs cooler, which makes it redder and the light to heat ratio, or efficency as you would call it drops significantly. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication. > (BTW, I respectfully (and cautiously, considering your sig line!) take > exception with your last 'graph-- "waste energy". Assume that you have two > 7.5W bulbs, each with a diode in line. One bulb is lit on the positive side > of the sine wave, the other on the negative side. The two bulbs combined use > the entire sine wave and put out a total of 15 W. Each bulb is only putting > out half the heat as it would at full power, Lightbulbs aren't linear beasts. There are a few websites with the math for voltage Vs energy consumed Vs light output Vs filament life. As voltage drops the lamp efficiency goes down the loo. Plain old grocery store lamps - not the long life variety - are the most efficient compromise between light output/energy cost/bulb cost. By wasting a bit of energy you can increase lamp life. Long life bulbs in the USA are made to run on 130V rather than the 115V they are plugged into - that's all there is to it. From the web site: http://www.gilway.com/html/appl-tungsten.html A half-wave rectifier provides ~70% of the RMS [Root Mean Square - sqrt(integral (V^2) dt)] voltage - the value used when AC voltages and currents are talked about. The charts only go to 80% voltage, but what the hey, at 80%: Current is 89% of nominal, voltage is 80% => power is 70% lower Light output is 35% of nominal Light color goes from white to orange, where the eye is less sensitive Using an 'energy saver' the efficiency went down by 50%: 0.35 the light for 0.70 the power. You are better off using a lightbulb of 1/3 the wattage and getting decent white light out of it. > so the filaments should last longer. That they will, about 20x longer. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >The curves for the Roscolux #27 filter would seem to >indicate that it would be a reasonable substitute for >a #1A filter. I would be very interested if someone >were to test it and report their findings. November 8, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Could you tell me where you found the curves? I looked all over the Rosco site but all I could find was the advertisement for a book of swatches that included spectral curves. There is a remark in one of the Rosco pdf documents to the effect that the R27 filter passes light of wavelength over 620 nanometers, and none below. thanks, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > Could you tell me where you found the curves? The curves are provided for each series of filters - cinegel, supergel, etc. http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/supergel.asp#SPECIFICATIONS Click on the little curve icon next to the color swatch. > I looked all over the Rosco site but all I > could find was the advertisement for a book > of swatches that included spectral curves. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >> Colorine is only available in pints. It costs >> a little over $14/pint as of January 2004. > >How many bulbs do you intend to coat! November 8, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Well, I'm only looking for a cheap source of safelights. I'm reconstituting my darkroom after a little while off, and I checked the price of safelights in a local photo shop. Over fifty dollars. I want lights in a number of locations in my place. I don't want to pay fifty dollars for a safelight in every corner. So if I can dip a Christmas tree bulb and put it in a small, ordinary lamp, the whole thing is painless, or at least cheap. I suppose I'll get a pint and dip a lifetime supply of small bulbs. Someone mentioned Delta1 safelight bulbs. I tried those years ago (perhaps they have changed by now). I hated the damn things; Delta lost me as a customer forever. I found their safelight bulbs had extremely delicate filaments. I destroyed several bulbs by handling them too roughly before I realized what was happening. I do know how to handle delicate things, I have a camera and a lens or two. I work with wet sheets of paper. Other light bulbs have survived well with me, including plenty of ECA and ECT lamps burning away at really high temperature. So, the Delta bulb is not on my list. It's also wildly overpriced. Two or three would cost the same as a pint of dipping paint. I'd just like to coat a box full of small bulbs and have safelights for the rest of my life... regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > Well, I'm only looking for a cheap source of > safelights. FWIW 'rubylith' makes an excellent safelight filter: ~$5 for a ~20x30 at most art stores. Many commercial graphic arts darkrooms just wrap it around a fluorescent lightbulb. The fluorescent afterglow is a problem when absolute dark is needed for film. > I checked the > price of safelights in a local photo shop. > Over fifty dollars. Offer them $20 and see what happens. I found a few shops that were just pleased as pink^H^H^Hred to get rid of them. Also, of course, ebay. > I want lights in a number of locations in my > place. I don't want to pay fifty dollars for > a safelight in every corner. So if I can dip > a Christmas tree bulb and put it in a small, > ordinary lamp, the whole thing is painless, > or at least cheap. The round 7 1/2 watters in combination with an 'energy waster' disc may be a good choice - see following post. > I suppose I'll get a pint and dip a lifetime > supply of small bulbs. I used to have a 'fireball'(?) safelight that was a large vanity-mirror lamp [one of those opal frosted 4" spheres] dipped in orange paint. Worked great for about 10 years and then the paint began to peel. $10. $15? I had it in a Luxo lamp. Someone still makes the old Mazda safelights: a regular low wattage lightbulb made with red glass. They were $5 or so, probably $10 by now. They have regular shaped bulbs, not oblong ones. FWIW, the Jobo color LED safelights are no good with B&W paper. > I'd just like to coat a box full of small > bulbs and have safelights for the rest of > my life Keep us posted, seems like a great idea. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm >Keep us posted, seems like a great idea. November 8, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, I've just been communicating with the local Rosco people (huge company ...) and found they have the Ruby Red R27 dipping paint in stock and can sell it to me for CND19.75. Not bad if it works, I'm waiting to see if anyone sells it downtown. Otherwise I'll force Natalie to accompany me on a scenic autumn tour to beautiful Markham, Ontario -- in her car. Well, that won't be necessary because the nice people from Rosco just phoned me to say the sales erson will be in town tomorrow and will drop it in my mailbox. I'm curious to see what happens with this stuff. If it doesn't work for the darkroom, what could I do with it? Maybe buy a 1972 Dodge van and throw a sleeping bag in the back? regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > stuff. If it doesn't work for the darkroom, > what could I do with it? Peddle it in the red-light district? They may pay in kind, though. The Christmas ornament business? Can you make like an elf? Wasn't there a play about this ... But if it does work you can be in the safelight business - coat any lamp or thing the customer wants. > Maybe buy a 1972 Dodge van and throw a > sleeping bag in the back? And wander 'round everywhere with Mom's BP card, I hope. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm > > Well, I'm only looking for a cheap source of > > safelights. You'll have to wait till after Christmass. I stock up on 5 packs of Chines made 5 watts; $1/pack. At a small fraction of the price they do well for night lights and fit my collection of Kodak Brownie orangeish yellow safelights. Were it not for your being so wedded to MG there would be a welcoming well lite darkroom at your disposal. Have you ever given orangeish yellow a try? Dan > FWIW, the Jobo color LED safelights are > no good with B&W paper. Did you test them against Graded paper? Dan >Were it not for your being so wedded to MG there would be a >welcoming well lite darkroom at your disposal. Have you ever >given orangeish yellow a try? Dan November 9, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,, Well, that's a good point. Ilford has proclaimed a mighty press release; they plan to be the last ones standing in back and white. So does that mean I can work with Galerie graded FB paper and have some prospect of being able to get it for a while? Sounds like a different thread, though ... regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > >Were it not for your being so wedded to MG there would be a > >welcoming well lite darkroom at your disposal. Have you ever [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > email: portrait@heylloyd.com > net: www.heylloyd.com A different thread? Only if Rosco has no orangeish yellow. Galerie is one of many Graded papers, FB and RC. There are a few papers offered in only one grade. One grade of paper I'd think would do for you as I expect your exposure and processing are well under control. Besides, that Ansco 120 is Beer's A save for dilution. Add Beer's B for MG. Also, Ansel's Ansco 130 is an A and B MG developer. Dan >FWIW 'rubylith' makes an excellent safelight >filter: ~$5 for a ~20x30 at most art stores. Many >commercial graphic arts darkrooms just wrap it >around a fluorescent lightbulb. November 8, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Yes, I've been using rubylith for years. Another source is dumpster diving. Press shop dumpsters often yield lifetime supplies of ruby. But still, it has to be played with quite a bit to make a safelight. Not a problem, really, and I've made my share of tin cookie boxes with a window cutout covered with rubylith, and a Christmas tree bulb socket installed inside. I'd just like to try something else for a change. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ November 9, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, Well, no one could Rosco's service. I phoned their local office yesterday and gave them my credit card number for a single pint of ruby red Colorine light bulb dipping paint. A few minutes ago the rep was at my door to deliver. So I popped open the pint. Yum, I forgot what solvent based paint smelled like! Sure is dark in the can. Black that turns red when it's in a thin layer ... such as on a light bulb. I cleaned a clear Christmas tree bulb with a bit of lighter fluid (i.e. naphtha). Already I'm deviant -- the specification is to clean with alcohol. All right, I'll only do it once. Push the bulb through a hole in some cardboard, dip it, lift it out, hold it over the can until it stops dripping, there it is, a red Christmas tree bulb. The paint is thinner than house paint, but not very thin. It clings to the glass admirably. I'd say it's better to let it drip off the tip of the bulb until it won't drip any more. If the result is too thin, a second dip. I left too much on and had to turn and turn it in my hands. I did get some on the metal base of the bulb. It flows well into the space between the glass and the base, and that part probably should be coated. I'd say the base should be masked off with tape. The bulb should be thinly coated twice rather than even slightly more heavily coated once. A large bulb could easily be coated even if it could only be part-way pushed into the top of the can of paint. The amount that would get on the tip of the bulb would be easy to manipulate all over the bulb just by turning and twisting it in the hands. So I think the Fat Albert style of light bulb someone was mentioning could easily be coated without resorting to brushes or larger containers. It looks to me that this is pretty much a one by one process. Something to keep idle hands occupied while something else is going on, such as watching TV. I was going to very proudly report that I got none on my hands, but at the last second, after I got it all set to dry by itself, I touched it and got a spot on my hand. Hmp. There is no perfection. So now I have to get my darkroom working to test out my safelights? Where's the justice? regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ >November 9, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, > >Well, no one could Rosco's service. I phoned sigh ... my keyboard failed to complete the thought ... the above should read: Well, no one could fault Rosco's service ... regards, --le Buy the correct safelight and filter. Don't be so f.cking cheap. > November 7, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,, > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > ________________________________ > -- UC spake thus: > Buy the correct safelight and filter. > Don't be so f.cking cheap. What are you, made out of money? Oh, yeah, that's right, you're a Republican. Signature... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped, "I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient." (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) A good safelight is a necessity. If you cannot afford one, why are you even doing darkroom work? Used safelights are cheaper, if you need to get one cheaply. > UC spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) |
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