 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005The End of Agfa Photo
Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and have recently quit making my lease payments based on the idea that I may not be able to get parts / service on these labs 2 months or even 2 years from now making machines worth nothing. It sounds like "A and O" has snapped up the lab division of Agfa Photo but may only continue to sell parts until the supply is used up. I read that they will even part out the remaining 360 partially completed labs on the assembly line rather then finish building them. This would likely mean that they will try to collect on the current outstanding leases while trying to continue to provide service / parts during the terms of the leases. When the leases expire or they run out of parts (whichever comes first), then they would be forced to break the remaining leases and run. I believe they have no intention to continue to service these machines 4 years from now again making my machines worth next to nothing at that point. I figure that my lease with a $1 buyout at the end is not worth the monthly payment any longer if the machine will not be worth close to $80,000 used like it otherwise would have. I am mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing regarding this matter. Please post your comments. > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard > something about [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > doing > regarding this matter. Please post your comments. Things are a bit up in the air right now but it appears that Fuji-Hunt will provide support, or at least chemistry, for these machines. The exact fate of Agfa Photo is still not settled although it sure looks like it will be dissolved (no pun intended).  Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about > the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing > regarding this matter. Please post your comments. Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease payments. However, it may pay to take the offensive. Send them a certified letter -- to the general counsel of AgfaUSA-- notifying them that they are in potential default under the terms of your lease, that their actions may constitute a breach of contract, etc., etc. -- a lawyer will do this for you for about $300. If you don't want to pay, and don't provide them with notice, they will do is your "defaulted" receivable" to a collection company...they will send you the correct number of notices that you are in default and when you don't pay they will seek a judgment in court. It's a real mess. > Until they default on the contract, you are obligated to make the lease > payments. What he said. Unless and until they actually fail to provide something as per agreement, simply stopping payments will start a world of trouble rolling your way - and seriously weaken your position in anything that happens later on. > > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about > > the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > you the correct number of notices that you are in default and when you don't > pay they will seek a judgment in court. It's a real mess. Thanks for the reply. If I send them a letter it will most certainly force them to react to my stop payment much sooner then they otherwise would. They are extremely short staffed with the major layoffs that occured 2 Fridays ago and may not have the man power to come after me if I lay low. By the time they get around to legal action with me they may have already defaulted on their end of the lease. Also it is taking them 6 days to send a tech to fix both my d-labs and I've had ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise. > > > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about > > > the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that > I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise. Here is my take everyone. You are just throwing money away by continuing to make your lease payment. The company is done! No one is going to continue to honor your service contract. The company that bought up all of the parts may try to make a go at selling them on the open market but your service contract is going to be worthless in a few weeks. Anyone who ownes a D-Lab realizes that the machine without a service contract is worthless! I'm sure there will be a few who try to keep their machines going for as long as they can, but IMO that is just a waste of money. These machines are extremely expensive to maintain. In fact the service contracts are likely a big reason Agfaphoto went under in the first place. I would advise everone who ownes a DLab to stop making your payment and start looking for another lab. Maybe someone will come out and get your D-Lab, but my guess is that you'll end up scraping it yourselves. No one is likely to come and get it. Why would they? Eventually the supply of parts will run out (likely pretty damned fast) and the machines will be worthless. Consider this. Lets assume that the leasing company sent you a letter stating that you know own your machine. They agree to just give it to you. But the catch is that there is no longer going to be a service contract available. How long will you continue to put parts into it out of your own pocket? My experience with mine is that they cost about $40k a year or more just to maintain! (I'm averaging a laser unit per year alone) At that rate it isn't worth keeping them. My guess is that this company that bought up the parts is not planning to manufacture them again unless their plan is to simply supply Kodak for their SRP 30's. But in either case, it doesn't really matter. They sure as hell aren't planning to honor our service contracts. Start looking at Fronteir's or Noritsu's ASAP is what I suggest we all do, and for heaven's sakes, stop paying them! Sure, technically we can't do that. But that is the prudent thing to do everyone. The company is bankrupt! Why pad the bottom line of their creditors any more. Once they are gone, nobody's going to be looking out for us. Once they quit honoring the service contracts and no one is available to come out and fix your machine (maybe just before the holiday rush), who are you going to go after for damages? Will it make you feel any better that their is another company out there sell parts for your D-lab for cash? Who is really going to shell out $25K to relace their lasers the next time they go out? Start protecting yourself ASAP!!!!!!!!! Just my 2 cents. Troy BTW It should be noted that I am Donald's brother and partner. He is the original poster. > You are just throwing money away by continuing to make your lease > payment. If you entered into a legal contract you can't unilaterally stop making payments. You are bound by the terms of your contract or the lease holder can take legal action against you. If the contract is held by Agfa then they will come after you just to close the Corporation. If there is a clause in your lease that states that the lease can be ended if there is a material change in the financial condition of either party or that the lease can be remade upon a substantial change in the financial party then you may have grounds for stopping payment. Or if there is a clause that spells out what happens if either party defaults on their obligations under the lease then you may have grounds for canceling payments. But if you signed a standard boiler plate lease then you probably do not have any right to unilaterally stop payments. To protect yourself you had best have an experienced attorney check your contract so you know exactly what your rights are. You may find that rather then simply stop paying on the lease that you have to put the payments into an escrow account while the responsibilities of Agfa or it's successors are ironed out. Especially as there were press reports last week that the manufacturer of Agfa's labs will take over the sales and service responsibility for the machines and other chemistry and paper suppliers have indicated that they will fill the supply lines for these items and lastly that US distributors for Agfa chemistry and paper for the minilabs have indicated that they have several months supply in stock. You may want to read last week's PMA News Line for updated info. SignatureTo reply no_ HPMarketing Corp. >My guess is that this company that bought up the parts is not planning >to manufacture them again unless their plan is to simply supply Kodak >for their SRP 30's. But in either case, it doesn't really matter. >They sure as hell aren't planning to honor our service contracts. That kinda depends upon the agreement. They may have bought up the service contracts. In fact most warranties provided here in the US are rarely supported by the manufacturer after the government passed the Nexus legislation. The company I work for "sells off" the warranties to a third party. Essentially that company provides services for several OEM's and also they have about 50% of their staff as contractors. The parts are ordered by our in-house techs and shipped to the warranty company who disperses them to the appropriate rep. All we're out is the shipping, receiveing and warehousing of the parts. === Regards, John Douglas - Formula, Documents & Manuals for the Silver Darkroom Websites : http://www.darkroompro.com - http://www.puresilver.org John, My point is that likely they didn't buy out the service contracts because they are big loosers. Know way a company could make any money selling a service contract for a D-Lab at anywhere close to the current price. IMO This situation I think is similar to all of the companies that have come and gone who sell extended warranties for used cars. A lot of them go out of business. The make a ton of cash initially and then start to bleed cash like crazy. My guess is that the service contracts where a big reason that Agfa folded. Lets just assume that I'm right for a second. Lets assume that Agfa realized that they would need to charge $1800 a month for the "parts and labor" service contract vs $650 just to break even on it. Obviously they are in trouble because if they were to try to charge that much, noboby would buy another DLab. They are damned if the do, damned if they don't. In either case, I'm pretty sure that the contracts were a big looser for the company. I'd be interested to here from other D-Lab owners about this. We have 2 dLabs. A D2 and a D2 plus. Both have been very high maintanace. We've been averaging a laser unit per year per machine alone! Not to mention all of the other day to day problems. (Lots of power supplies and Vips boards and on and on) Without a service contract, IMO these machines are worthless. They just cost too much to keep running. Therefore it is very unlikely that any other company is going to "buy out" the service contracts and continue to honor them. As far as the other comment about not being a able to stop payment on the lease, I agree. Technically we can't stop paying for them until they stop providing service for the machines. If you talk to an attorney I'm sure that they will tell you that. But I've already stoped paying for mine! I'm certain that, while they could come after me, they won't simply because by the time this matter would get to court they would have already begun to fail to provide service for my machines by then. We have to look at the big picture here everyone. Legally we have no leg to stand on, at this very moment. However that is certainly going to change soon. IMO Also consider the fact that often times you can be in legal hot water but in fact have nothing to worry about. For example, if you have an account that owes you money but you realize that it will be very difficult to collect a penny from them because they are broke, it's not worth going after them for a judgement that you will never be able to collect on anyway. I think our situation with our leases is similar. While they could come after us for not making our payments, I don't think they will because it won't be worth their trouble considering the likely future situation. Keep in mind that it costs a lot of money to come after you and it costs several thousand $ to come and pick up the machines, plus then they have to store them somewhere. I just don't think they are going to do that. BTW, Even if I'm wrong. The worst case scenerio the way I see it is that you just have to make the payments eventually. Know judge is going to fault you for being cautious in our shoes right now. IMO I would not put your payments in escrow either. Just keep the funds in your own bank. The last think you want is to have to do is fight to get possesion of your cash back. Make them fight to get it later if I'm wrong here. If this whole thing blows over in a few months and everything is fine once again, then you just pay them and say "sorry". No judge is going to fault you for covering your a.s in this situation. They are also not very likely to come get the machines yet because then they would have to sue you for the balance of your payments. If the whole service situation does in fact change, it will be risky for them to argue that you were not acting reasonably. (Hell the president of Agfaphoto flat out stated that the company would fold by the end of the year.) There position is much stronger if they leave the machine and then come after you for the payments once the clouds clear. (If they ever do) Also, the service situation is definately going to start getting a lot worse. Our lab is here in Minneapolis and we've come to know a lot of the techs pretty well over the years, as they have been out to our place a lot! (Agfa service is based here in Minneapolis) These guys are not happy with Agfa at all. The techs that have been laid off are likely not ever comming back and the ones who still have their jobs are looking for other work. They are not going to be to happy to start all over with a different company. Plus it takes some time to train new techs. If the service situation is really bad for six months and then gets better, so what! You are still legally "out of your lease". Your business is ruined if your machine is down for a month, right? Hell even a couple of weeks will likely kill you. Again, IMO... Stop making your payments and start looking at Frontier's and Noritsu's ASAP! Start preparing for the enevitable. Screw Agfa and start covering your own a.s! The writing is on the wall IMO. The future of your business is at stake. Don't risk it just because you fear you need to honor your lease with Agfa and everything MIGHT be all right. If you have two labs and won't be totally screwed if you loose your DLab for a while, then you can afford to be more careful. Otherwise start preparing for the likely possibilty that you are going to soon need another machine. Just my 2 cents again. BTW It might be interesting to note that I was advised to do this originally by an Agfa employee. I won't name names but I was advised a month ago that I should start looking for a replacement for my DLab because of upcomming "service and parts issues" with my DLabs. > >My guess is that this company that bought up the parts is not planning > >to manufacture them again unless their plan is to simply supply Kodak [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > === > Regards, > > John Douglas - Formula, Documents & Manuals for the Silver Darkroom > Websites : http://www.darkroompro.com - http://www.puresilver.org One more point everyone. BTW Sorry for not spell checking my post's. It's very late. The other very strong argument for stopping payment is that you might very well need that cash when you have to buy another machine ASAP. Other companies (Like Noritsu or Fuji) might not want to approve you for another lease with that agfa lease hanging over you. You may desperately need that cash to buy a used lab to keep from having to close your lab. BTW I've already talked to Noritsu and they are no longer offering anything for trade in value for DLabs. $0!!!!. That is a radical change from them. They used to have a pretty good trade in program for DLabs. Now they won't give you a penny!!! Scary huh? I haven't applied for credit yet from either Noritsu or Fuji bvut my guess is that they are going to be very careful about our current leases. We may have a very hard time buying another machine. See what kind of trouble we Dlab owners are in? We are in big trouble folks! It is possible that or Dlabs will go down on us but that we will be unavle to get another machine in in time to keep our businesses from folding. Just think about how screwed we will all be if our Dlabs go down for weeks at a time. We might as well just close up shop. The only thing that might save us is if we stop making our payments now and start saving our cash and hope like hell our Dlabs make it another 6 months before going down for good. Then we can use all of that cash to get into a used machine if both Noritsu and Fuji decide they don't want to touch us with finacing for another new machine. Keep in mind how important it will be to get anothewr machine in FAST! The Dlab could go down at anytime (once the parts and service situation gets bad) You will likely have to have another machine up and running in a week or less else you might as well fold your own tent! Again, Start covering your own a.s everyone! IMO Donald: I whole heartedly agree with everything you and your partner in business have said. We are D2Lab owners (or should I say renters) and are feeling just as naked as everyone else should be. We are not lawyers, speculators, or investors. We are the recipients of a company that has been notorious for not being able to stand behind the products they sell! Granted the D2Lab is a top dog in the market, but if you can't feed, water, or take care of it, then you have a virtually DEAD DOG! Alternatives (in supplies) is not what we signed on for!!!!!!!!!!! As a bit of history for the guy that thinks he has a lemon. We first had the MSC 100d lab that functioned beautifully the first 9 months. Then it began............................the digital engines broke and broke and broke and came in broke................the company that made the DPU engines had gone BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 Digital Printing Units later we had before enough was enough. This was in a 2 year span....We were down more than we were up....It truly became a joke with our customers!!!! Agfa was using a subcontracted company to try to "service us". Guess What.....They couldn't provide. Are you all sure that is not going to happen again??? NO, You can't be. We were forced to upgrade or go bankrupt at that point amd chose to TRY for a better machine. The D2 was HOT on the market at the time, so we went with it at a costly price. HERE WE ARE AGAIN! We really don't care about the legal issues here anymore....this company has screwed people enough for a long enough period of time and I say we gather from far and near to save ourselves. If we don't, we will be in the same shoes AGFA PHOTO is right now. We need a GOOD lawyer who can stand up and be counted for the small business owners who are trying to do the right thing. Take the contract and *#+*##### We are talking about business here. Everything we make goes to Agfa! Did you know that your Rep. who sold you the machine is pabably GONE. And GUESS WHAT, that is where AGFA FINANCE will send to fix any problem you have. Who are working for anyways???????? A company that should tell you that you have a paperweight in 5 years.......(good point Donald). I am stopping payment in Dec. also. We don't care about the legal ramifications anymore. We are not sure about where we are going from there, however, I will notify Agfa which is more than they did for us! Holding their Money in separate account until we know where we are? Last statement in June assured us that everything would be fine, NNNNNNNNo interruptions. How long have you waited for paper and chemistry? How much expense have you incurred making a switch to an "alternative paper/chemisty". Still waiting for that TECH to fix your machine? Losing money yet???? Customers saying"ARE YOU CRAZY?" Good machine but get rid of these losers, we'll stay! Was your last phone call "Are you up and running today??????????" This is all just too crazy. High blood pressure, heart murmur, suisidal signs...is it all worth it.....is THAT what we bought in to? Is that what we pay thousands of dollars a month for? I think not. We did not start this venture with that in the forecast and I really believe we all need to take action. Why should we again take the hit and lose what we have all worked so hard for to AGFA? Powell's Imaging is IN. Let's get started making something happen for our businesses.....for US! www.powellsimaging.com >My point is that likely they didn't buy out the service contracts >because they are big loosers. Know way a company could make any money >selling a service contract for a D-Lab at anywhere close to the current >price. IMO You misunderstand. AFAIK, the vast majoruty of warranty work is done by contractors. If a device is warranteed solely by the manufacturer then they will need locations within a reasonable distance to provide services and supporting staff. This is almost always counter-productive. John I am not a lawyer, but I will put in my two cents anyway. One potential problem with not making payments on your service contract is that Agfa (in its weakened state) is not necessarily the one who will enforce the contract. This is probably under the bankruptcy court, and as I understand it these courts are generally are pretty strict about making sure the bankrupt party receives any money that is owed to it. You will therefore likely be dealing not with Agfa, but with the court, and the court has real power. Why not try this strategy? Put in a few service calls. If they don't respond in a timely way then send them a letter that you are cancelling your service contract based on non-performance on Agfa's part. I think you might be right. I'm planning on sending them a certified letter stating my concerns. It's taking 4 days to get service, over two weeks to get paper and chemicals therefore forcing me to switch manufacturers causing my lab to be down a full day rebalancing not to mention the loss in remaining extra inventory, and I'm still deeply concerned whether or not my machines costing $9,500/ month will be worth anything 2 months from now or even 4 years from now. I am not making payments per month to use the machine, but rather paying off my debt on the machine so that 1 day I will have an $80,000 or so asset on my books. Those hopes are seemingly deminishing and I believe that this the main reason that I can get out of my lease. I > Thanks for the reply. If I send them a letter it will most certainly > force them to react to my stop payment much sooner then they otherwise [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ongoing problems for months with one of them. Could I also argue that > I may have gotten a "lemon"? Please advise. 1. Don't look for free advice on Usenet. 2. See your lawyer- Monday morning! 3. Rinse, lather, repeat. raoul don...@profotousa.com wrote: > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about > the future of Agfa Photo or "A and O". I currently own 2 d-labs and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing > regarding this matter. Please post your comments. > don...@profotousa.com wrote: > > Just looking for other D-lab owners who may have heard something about [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > mainly wondering what other D-lab owners are hearing and doing > > regarding this matter. Please post your comments. These kind always make me wonder why, people don't invest time to learn posting skills before they attempt it? SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Hey Greg, Why don't you attempt to comment on the actual content of the topic rather then feel the need to point out petty things such as typos. (I can get a free program to replace you and it would know when to properly use a comma) Besides, I started this for other D-lab owners to explain their thoughts through this process. Donald Troy spake thus: > Hey Greg, > > Why don't you attempt to comment on the actual content of the topic > rather then feel the need to point out petty things such as typos. (I > can get a free program to replace you and it would know when to > properly use a comma) Not to mention apostrophes; it's "you're", not "your". Aaah, what's the use? It's terminal AOL-speak. Signature... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped, "I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient." (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) > Hey Greg, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Donald I have no idea what your talking about, but: What I stated had nothing to do with spelling, I was referring to the quotation of Don without any comment above or below by another poster- Code named "Cherry". As for my to date unspoken thoughts regarding your Plight you probably won't want to hear them, because thus far you have not agreed with anyone but those who completely agree with your view point-(both you and Don). This runs counter to the original thread, which btw you and Don hijacked, to discuss a personal aspect of D-lab ownership. Quite truthfully your off topic and posting a business concerns which probably should not be addressed on an open public forum. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Depending on what email program you use it is quite easy to send a blank reply, just hitting <enter> instead of <tab> at the wrong time will do it and a lot of this stuff is still less intuitive than it could be. Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > > > Hey Greg, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Quite truthfully your off topic and posting a business concerns which > probably should not be addressed on an open public forum. > Depending on what email program you use it is quite easy to send a blank > reply, just hitting <enter> instead of <tab> at the wrong time will do it > and a lot of this stuff is still less intuitive than it could be. Yes Mike; I am certainly willing to accept that. Take Care SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Hey Greg, Why don't you attempt to comment on the actual content of the topic rather then feel the need to point out petty things such as typos. (I can get a free program to replace you and it would know when to properly use a comma) Besides, I started this for other D-lab owners to explain their thoughts and combine information. Donald : Hey Greg, : Why don't you attempt to comment on the actual content of the topic : rather then feel the need to point out petty things such as typos. (I : can get a free program to replace you and it would know when to : properly use a comma) : Besides, I started this for other D-lab owners to explain their : thoughts and combine information. Why don't you find a newgroup were your discussions about the Agfa minilabs are on topic? Signature------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you Frank Pittel spake thus: > : Hey Greg, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Why don't you find a newgroup were your discussions about the Agfa minilabs > are on topic? Not on-topic in a darkroom group? How do you figure that? Signature... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped, "I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient." (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) I see. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Say, you wouldn't happen to know how to move this post in to another heading would you? :) : Frank Pittel spake thus: : > : > : Hey Greg, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] : > Why don't you find a newgroup were your discussions about the Agfa minilabs : > are on topic? : Not on-topic in a darkroom group? How do you figure that? The thread has nothing to do with a darkroom, darkrooms, or work in a darkroom. It has to do with a person in the unfortunate position of owning a mini-lab made by and maintained by a company going out of business. Off the top of my head I would guess that the film+lab group would be the place for this thread. Signature------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you >Besides, I started this for other D-lab owners to explain their >thoughts and combine information. That does not make this thread relavent to this group. John Talk to a lawyer. TALK TO A LAWYER. Talk...to...a...lawyer. In case I have not made myself plain, let me rephrase: "Talk To A Lawyer. Talk To A Lawyer. Talk To A Lawyer." Comfort yourself all you want with Internet banter. But grab your wallet and Talk To A Lawyer. This is Law Stuff. It is not Run The Possibilities With Your Buddies stuff. ...and, by the way, good luck. I went through something similar about 10 years ago and my lawyer saved my bacon. But it took a lawyer. That's my main point. David Foy > Talk to a lawyer. TALK TO A LAWYER. Talk...to...a...lawyer. In case I > have not made myself plain, let me rephrase: "Talk To A Lawyer. Talk To [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > David Foy And thats the best advice I have heard. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Good advice Bluefire. Despite all jokes about lawyers, when you need one there is just no substitute. >Talk to a lawyer. TALK TO A LAWYER. Talk...to...a...lawyer. In case I >have not made myself plain, let me rephrase: "Talk To A Lawyer. Talk To >A Lawyer. Talk To A Lawyer." Am I the only one that has similar difficulties with management not listening to good advice ? === Regards, John Douglas - Formula, Documents & Manuals for the Silver Darkroom Websites : http://www.darkroompro.com - http://www.puresilver.org Let me see if I understand you correctly. You're suggesting that the OP talk to a lawyer. Is that correct?? : Talk to a lawyer. TALK TO A LAWYER. Talk...to...a...lawyer. In case I : have not made myself plain, let me rephrase: "Talk To A Lawyer. Talk To : A Lawyer. Talk To A Lawyer." Comfort yourself all you want with : Internet banter. But grab your wallet and Talk To A Lawyer. This is Law : Stuff. It is not Run The Possibilities With Your Buddies stuff. : ...and, by the way, good luck. I went through something similar about : 10 years ago and my lawyer saved my bacon. : But it took a lawyer. That's my main point. : David Foy Signature------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you I have an appointment with my lawyer this week. You'd think with all the damn lawyers, I'd be able to see one right away. I'll post back but he says but I'm still guessing that he won't find much at this stage. IMO It would be like telling police that a crime will happen next week, they won't do anything till it actually happens, then in it's too late. Donald >These kind always make me wonder why, people don't invest time to learn >posting skills before they attempt it? RTFM ? Greg, you're holding onto hope for humanity. You should know better. John > >These kind always make me wonder why, people don't invest time to learn > >posting skills before they attempt it? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John OK ---So what are you trying to say :-) RTFM Read The Friendly Manual (polite form) RTFM Read the Famous Manual (polite form) RTFM Read The Fantastic Manual RTFM Read The FAQ 'n Manual RTFM Read the Field Manual RTFM Read the Fine Manual RTFM Read The Fine Material RTFM Read The Flaming Manual RTFM Read The Flipping Manual RTFM Read The Forgotten Manual RTFM Read The Freaking Manual (polite form) RTFM Read The Fscking Manual (Fsck is a Unix filesystem checker) RTFM Read The Furnished Manual RTFM Read This For More RTFM Realtime Traffic Flow Measurement (Internet RFCs 2720-2724) RTFM Right This Freaking Minute (polite form) and at least one other possibility. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 It's really productive to spank someone the first time they attempt to contribute to a group...just relax take a deep breath and point out that the message did not come through, request (politely) that they resend their message. Don't scare them off, we need all the new talent in this group that we can find. (You wouldn't want to be tarred with the same brush as old He Who Shall Remain Nameless, would you? would you!) Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > > >These kind always make me wonder why, people don't invest time to learn [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > John Thanks Mike, Sorry to everyone for accidently posting my topic in the darkroom forum. It was an accident. Since I can find no way to move the whole post, it's staying here. The right people will find it anyway because most people I would think search all groups for keywords. Thanks to all for the posts that are relative to the new topic in this group. Donald > Thanks Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Donald I am glad your taking it well and I hope things work out for the best for you. I also encourage you to post relative threads to this group as I am sure you have much to offer. Take Care. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 digifotopro spake thus: > Sorry to everyone for accidently posting my topic in the darkroom > forum. It was an accident. Since I can find no way to move the whole > post, it's staying here. The right people will find it anyway because > most people I would think search all groups for keywords. No problemo; only the more anal among us seem to get all worked up about stuff like this. And no, there's no way to "move" a thread from one newsgroup to another. There ain't no cut-n-paste like in Windows. Best you can do is cancel individual messages, but that doesn't always work (like when there's a subthread below a message). Just don't sweat it. Signature... asked to comment on Michigan governor George Romney's remark that the army had "brainwashed" him in Vietnam—-a remark which knocked Romney out of the running for the Republican nomination—-McCarthy quipped, "I think in that case a light rinse would have been sufficient." (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) > digifotopro spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No problemo; only the more anal among us seem to get all worked up about > stuff like this. What about the retentive? Don't they matter? Doesn't anybody care about them? > And no, there's no way to "move" a thread from one newsgroup to another. > There ain't no cut-n-paste like in Windows. Best you can do is cancel [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > (Eugene McCarthy, onetime candidate for POTUS) > It's really productive to spank someone the first time they attempt to > contribute to a group...just relax take a deep breath and point out that the > message did not come through, request (politely) that they resend their > message. Don't scare them off, we need all the new talent in this group > that we can find. (You wouldn't want to be tarred with the same brush as > old He Who Shall Remain Nameless, would you? would you!) Ha- Actually spanking could be fun ;-) SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Just I promised, I am reporting back after seeking legal advise on this topic. My lawyer basically says it will be tricky to get out of the Agfa D-lab lease being as I'll be dealing with the bankruptcy court administrators and they don't like to loose. However I was advise to send Agfa a certified letter explaining all the problems I've had in the past with the equipment, the interuptions in current supplies, and the longer delay in getting a service tech out to fix my 2 $200,000 labs. I was advised to demand "revocation of acceptance of the equipment" under some MN state statute. I will post the statute number later. I will write in the letter that I will refuse to pay them another penny and demand they come get their equipment immediately. I will threaten (perhaps truthfully) to file for Bankruptcy myself if the administrators try to sue me for the remaining balance of the leases therefore not collecting a penny. My lawyer says with all the trouble with these machines it should be no problem to get out of the leases. I tend to think that the court admins would spend more money coming after the equipment then they would be able to liquidate it for and therefore may not do anything. Every single Agfa lab owner I have talked to has had numberous part failures and a tremendous amount of down time as a result. It soulnds like these agfa d-labs may not be worth servicing anymore? I will wait to hear a response from Agfa....... Just as I promised, I am reporting back after seeking legal advice on this topic. My lawyer basically says it will be tricky to get out of the Agfa D-lab lease being as I'll be dealing with the bankruptcy court administrators and they don't like to loose. However I was advised to send Agfa a certified letter explaining all the problems I've had in the past with the equipment, the interuptions in current supplies, and the longer delay in getting a service tech out to fix my 2 $200,000 labs. I was advised to demand "revocation of acceptance" of the equipment under some MN state statute or Universal Commercial Code. I will post the exact statute when I find it again. I will write in the letter that I will refuse to pay them another penny and demand they come get their equipment immediately. I will threaten (perhaps truthfully) to file for Bankruptcy myself if the administrators try to sue me for the remaining balance of the leases therefore not collecting a penny. My lawyer says with all the trouble with these machines it should be no problem to get out of the leases. I tend to think that the court admins would spend more money coming after the equipment then they would be able to liquidate it for and therefore may not do anything. Every single Agfa lab owner I have talked to has had numberous part failures and a tremendous amount of down time as well. It soulnds like these agfa d-labs may not be worth servicing anymore? I will wait to hear a response from Agfa....... Again, any D-lab owners please comment. Donald |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.