 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| PhotoKB HomeDiscussion Groups Digital Photography Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot CamerasFilm Photography 35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther EquipmentPhoto Technique Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique GeneralGeneral Photo Topics General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK PhotographyDirectoryPhoto Clubs |
Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2005storing rodinal
Now that the last mad dash for Rodinal is on, what is the best way to atore it for the long haul, ie 5,10,20 years? Given Rodinal's long shelf life, is there any point in refrigerating it? I found one post on photonet saying its unwise to refrigerate liquid chemicals because some things may precipitate that wont remix, but others say they have refrigerated (or even frozen!) liquids. they say it keeps for yeaeaears, and it keeps it's properties even after it turns dark brown. But don't panic: there is APH09 frop ADOX too, with about the same characteristics, APH09 is based upon the Rodinal formula. Bought me a bottle (www.fotoimpex.de) and I don't regret. For thos not familiar with the name ADOX: it has been called Calbe before, see www.digitaltruth.com for time tables (select on developers by Calbe). Jan | Now that the last mad dash for Rodinal is on, what is the best way to | atore it for the long haul, ie 5,10,20 years? Given Rodinal's long | shelf life, is there any point in refrigerating it? I found one post on | photonet saying its unwise to refrigerate liquid chemicals because some | things may precipitate that wont remix, but others say they have | refrigerated (or even frozen!) liquids. I have read that the Calbe is decidedly different than Rodinal. > they say it keeps for yeaeaears, and it keeps it's properties even after it > turns dark brown. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > | things may precipitate that wont remix, but others say they have > | refrigerated (or even frozen!) liquids. > I have read that the Calbe is decidedly different than Rodinal. I read the opposite. Search for it on www.apug.org and you will find a guy who did tests and couldn't tell much of a difference. I tried to order Rodinal but haven't been successful. FYI: the Calbe brand has disappeared since some time, it's now called ADOX. It appears to be the very same stuff. >FYI: the Calbe brand has disappeared since some time, it's now called ADOX. >It appears to be the very same stuff. And probably still manufactured in the town of Calbe, too. > But don't panic: there is APH09 frop ADOX too, with about the same > characteristics, APH09 is based upon the Rodinal formula. > Bought me a bottle (www.fotoimpex.de) and I don't regret. > > For thos not familiar with the name ADOX: it has been called Calbe before, > see www.digitaltruth.com for time tables (select on developers by Calbe). For those in the US (I don't know where the OP is), Calbe R09 is available from J&C (http://www.jandcphoto.com). Fomadon R09 is another brand with (supposedly) the same formula as Calbe R09. AFAIK Fomadon R09 is not readily available in the US, but is available in Europe. Also, Photographer's Formulary (http://www.photoformulary.com) sells a Rodinal clone, but the description sounds like it ships in powdered form. If so, it's probably just small bags with the constituent chemicals. You can buy these and mix it yourself from scratch. Here's one formula: http://www.jackspcs.com/frodinal.htm Note that several "Rodinal-like" developer formulas have been published. I don't know which one is closest to what Agfa now sells as Rodinal, or to the original (patented in 1891). Mixing Rodinal from solid chemicals is potentially more dangerous than mixing most other developers because it requires handling potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide (depending on which formula you follow). Both are very caustic substances that tend to heat up when they're added to water, enough so they can cause boiling. If you're not comfortable with this, best to stick with Agfa Rodinal for as long as your stock lasts or switch to Calbe R09, Fomadon R09, or whatever other pre-mixed substitutes emerge in the coming months or years. If you're concerned about getting precisely identical results, buy some now and try it out to judge its effects for yourself. IIRC, Calbe R09 requires slightly different dilutions than Agfa Rodinal, so be sure to research that before using it. As to the original question, though.... >| Now that the last mad dash for Rodinal is on, what is the best way to >| atore it for the long haul, ie 5,10,20 years? Given Rodinal's long >| shelf life, is there any point in refrigerating it? I found one post on >| photonet saying its unwise to refrigerate liquid chemicals because some >| things may precipitate that wont remix, but others say they have >| refrigerated (or even frozen!) liquids. I've heard the same advice about freezing liquid developers. I wouldn't try it. It might be worth transferring the developer from the plastic jars Agfa uses (or used, I guess) into glass jars. The plastic is more permeable to air than glass, so glass jars will help long-term storage, at least in theory. Personally, I wouldn't bother stocking up. Although alternatives like Calbe R09 are currently available from very few sources, I'm sure distribution will improve once Agfa's Rodinal stream dries up; or maybe some other company (Ilford, say) will begin marketing the stuff, possibly even based on Agfa's current formula.  SignatureRod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking > Personally, I wouldn't bother stocking up. Although alternatives like > Calbe R09 are currently available from very few sources, I'm sure > distribution will improve once Agfa's Rodinal stream dries up; or maybe > some other company (Ilford, say) will begin marketing the stuff, possibly > even based on Agfa's current formula. a couple years ago I would have agreed, but not anymore. What will keep Calbe in business (I dnt even know what their business is)? No, I think expecting the worst is the best strategy now. I'm not going to buy a lifetime supply of Rodinal though, just a buffer (already on the way). > potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide [AKA lye/Draino] ... > heat up when they're added to water, enough so they > can cause boiling. They also quickly eat holes in your skin. Na/KOH + fat [in skin & cellular membranes] ==> soap. If your skin feels soapy rinse well with lots of warm water and then splash on some vinegar/stop bath. As youngsters, my neighbor and I were fooling around with a jar of NaOH pellets the chemistry teacher had let him have -- times were different then, the school of hard knocks was still open -- and there was this strange sensation - "what in *** is under my fingernail". A learning experience. Draino is lye plus metal shavings so that it -theoretically- doesn't eat a hole in the sink drain. Red Devil lye is pure lye that can be used photographically. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I think the shavings are there to cause bubbling which is supposed to loosen deposits. ... >I think the shavings are there to cause bubbling which is supposed to >loosen deposits. October 31, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick, And heat. I think the metal shavings are magnesium. Bubbling and boiling. Happy Hallowe'en! regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > PATRICK GAINER <pgainer@rtol.net> wrote: > >I think the shavings are there to cause bubbling which is supposed to > >loosen deposits. > And heat. I think the metal shavings are > magnesium. Bubbling and boiling. Happy Hallowe'en! So that's what the shavings are there for ... makes more sense. The stuff does get hot -- if it is grease in the trap the heat would help a lot. Drano also has some green stuff. I mixed some up once in a Kodak polyethylene graduate and the inside of the graduate is still bright green after 20 years of on-and-off scrubbing. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm Store August Rodin(al) in an oven at about 6000F. > Now that the last mad dash for Rodinal is on, what is the best way to > atore it for the long haul, ie 5,10,20 years? Given Rodinal's long > shelf life, is there any point in refrigerating it? I found one post on > photonet saying its unwise to refrigerate liquid chemicals because some > things may precipitate that wont remix, but others say they have > refrigerated (or even frozen!) liquids. I have put all my stored Rodinal and ektaflo paper developer in amber glass bottles and taped the caps to insure a perfect seal. Regards. Bob Mccarthy >I have put all my stored Rodinal and ektaflo paper developer in amber >glass bottles and taped the caps to insure a perfect seal. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I have a formula that takes some of the mystique out of mixing your own Rodinal. It uses sodium bisulfite, p-aminophenol.HCl and sodium hydroxide in the form of Red Devil lye from the supermarket. Put 50 grams p-aminophenol.HCl, 130 grams of NaHSO3 and 70 grams NaOH in enough water to make a liter. Don't worry about the mysterious "few undissolved crystals". I have tested it at 1+25 and 1+50 dilutions and found the same results I used to get with the AGFA Rodinal, by using the times listed on the side of that old bottle. Sure lye is dangerous. If you spill some of the powder it will take up water and CO2 from the air and become Na2CO3 which is not so dangerous. If you spill some on yourself, wash it off BEFORE it eats away some of your skin. It needs water to eat your skin, but if you use enough water, it wont. >>I have put all my stored Rodinal and ektaflo paper developer in amber >>glass bottles and taped the caps to insure a perfect seal. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >I have a formula that takes some of the mystique out of mixing your own Something like : Rodinal Water @ 125F p-Aminophenol Hydrochloride Pot. metabisulfite Water to make 750ml 100g 300g 1.0L 50% Hydroxide Solution Water @ 65F Sod. Hydroxide Water to make 75ml 50 100ml This my well be the oldest production developers still in use today . It dates back to the 1880's and was considered to be the ultimate brew by The American Science Foundation who officially utilized it for the next several decades. Available as a concentrate which is to be diluted, Rodinal gives the sharpest image of any manufacturers developer today. However its one tradeoff is GRAIN ! Oh well, nothings perfect. In mixing this formula a 50% solution of sodium hydroxide is called for. A great deal of care must be taken with this chemical ! Mix this solution first so that it can be cooling while you prepare the developer. The Sod. Hydroxide must be cool before use, if not it could spatter chemicals all over the place and you ! This chemical is one of, if not all of the chemicals in most drain cleaners. Once mixed Rodinal has a shelf life of about 5 years in a cool dark cabinet. My personal starting time is 19.0 minutes. @ 70F for TMX-100 EI 80 and 6.5 minutes @ 70F for Tech Pan. Both use the 1:100 dilution and allow the developer to stand for 2 minutes between agitation cycles to enhance adjacency effects. === Regards, John Douglas - Formula, Documents & Manuals for the Silver Darkroom Websites : http://www.darkroompro.com - http://www.puresilver.org |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.