Grainy 120-format B/W rollfilms

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shoppa@trailing-edge.com - 06 Jul 2005 19:09 GMT

I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms. Indoor flash
candid/snapshot style photography with some outside stuff, sometimes
fill-flashed.

I'm stuck-in-the-mud with respect to my TLR
camera/waist-level-viewfinder and will not switch to 35mm.

I like TMY and HP5. Usually develop in XTOL or Acufine. When enlarged
to 11x14 or bigger the grain is nice and visible and acutance is
excellent, but I want something even grainier. Any darkroom "recipies"
for more grain without blowing contrast out of the water?

Ilford Delta 3200? The local places don't stock it, but I'll try
mail-ordering it. I tried Delta 400 many years ago and was not
impressed at the time... But I didn't try very hard. It seemed not
too much different than Tri-X.

If anyone wants to push Tri-X on me, I'll give it a second chance too.
I was not impressed with acutance last time I tried. And I had to rate
the film at like 160 to get any shadow detail at all.

If there are any C41-developer B/W films that have nice sharp grain I
might give them a try too. But the ones I tried were really splotchy
with no sharp grain (this was 10-15 years ago).

I'm also willing to try high-speed high-grain 120 color slide films but
I don't think they've made this for years (Agfa had some 1000 speed
stuff that was great, with pushing it was brilliantly sparkly grainy,
but I haven't seen it since the early 90's.)

Tim.

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Rod Smith - 06 Jul 2005 19:49 GMT

> I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms.

...

> I like TMY and HP5. Usually develop in XTOL or Acufine. When enlarged
> to 11x14 or bigger the grain is nice and visible and acutance is
> excellent, but I want something even grainier. Any darkroom "recipies"
> for more grain without blowing contrast out of the water?

You could try an even faster film, like Fuji's Neopan 1600. I've not tried
it, though, so I can't promise it'll give you what you want. FWIW, Efke
KB100 seems awfully grainy for its speed, at least in 35mm -- grainier
than most ISO 400 films. It might be worth a test roll or two. If you're
in the US, check http://www.jandcphotography.com to locate some. They've
also got some oddball films in ISO 400 that might be worth trying. The
only one I've tried, Fomapan 400, doesn't strike me as particularly grainy
for its speed, but you might think differently, particularly as you're
using 120 and might use different developers than I've used.

You could also try developing in Rodinal (or an equivalent, like Calbe
R09); that has a reputation for producing more grain than XTOL. (I'm not
sure about Acufine's characteristics offhand, though.)

Another possibility is to expose at a higher ISO rating and push process.
That'll have other undesirable effects, though.

> Ilford Delta 3200? The local places don't stock it, but I'll try
> mail-ordering it. I tried Delta 400 many years ago and was not
> impressed at the time... But I didn't try very hard. It seemed not
> too much different than Tri-X.

Ilford's Delta films, like Kodak's T-grain films, are less grainy than
traditional emulsions. That said, the higher speed might produce greater
grain. (I *THINK* that Fuji's Neopan 1600 is a traditional-grain film, but
I'm not positive of that.)

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Peter - 06 Jul 2005 20:33 GMT

> I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms. Indoor flash
> candid/snapshot style photography with some outside stuff, sometimes
> fill-flashed.

Fortepan 400 is the grainiest film I know. It produces quite
sharp grain in d-76, I haven't tried it with anything else.
A 8x10 print from a 6x6 negative will show the grain quite nicely.

> If anyone wants to push Tri-X on me, I'll give it a second chance too.
> I was not impressed with acutance last time I tried. And I had to rate
> the film at like 160 to get any shadow detail at all.

I find Tri-x a very nice film when developed in D-76 or Xtol.
But the current tri-x has pretty fine grain for a 400 speed film
and is not what you are looking for.

Forte 400 should fit the bill quite nicely if you really want
grain. The base is somewhat curlier than most major-company films.

Peter

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Gregory Blank - 06 Jul 2005 21:54 GMT

> > I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms. Indoor flash
> > candid/snapshot style photography with some outside stuff, sometimes
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> sharp grain in d-76, I haven't tried it with anything else.
> A 8x10 print from a 6x6 negative will show the grain quite nicely.

Use in Rodinal 1+7 0r 1+3, golf ball size grain.
Contrast galore.

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Nicholas O. Lindan - 06 Jul 2005 22:21 GMT

> I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms.

Ilford Delta-3200 is it, TTBOMK; assuming you mean
high grain/high speed.

Don't forget to use a coarse grain developer like Dektol.
High contrast paper helps.

One used to be able to buy a 'grain screen' to add
_lots_ of grain to a picture. The screen was a negative with
a grain pattern and you would lay it on the paper when making
an enlargement.

> Indoor flash candid/snapshot style photography with
> some outside stuff, sometimes fill-flashed.

Try available light, it can really look nice in 120. I used
to use Royal-X pan in a Zeiss Nettar - f6.8 lens so the subject
had to be near a window, but that just made it better. The
usual advice, expose for shadows and develop for highlights,
or the stuff can get away from you.

Hmpf, think I will put D-3200 on the shopping list.

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Gianni Rondinini - 08 Jul 2005 11:16 GMT

>I'm looking for high-grain 120-format rollfilms. Indoor flash
>candid/snapshot style photography with some outside stuff, sometimes
>fill-flashed.

i'd recommend "older" ilford films --such as hp5+-- or a high
sensitivity modern film, like ilford delta3200.
developing them with rodinal gives you plenty of thick grains on your
images.

regards,

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Gianni Rondinini
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Hai capito, shelf?

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Gianni Rondinini - 12 Jul 2005 11:28 GMT

>i'd recommend "older" ilford films --such as hp5+-- or a high
>sensitivity modern film, like ilford delta3200.
>developing them with rodinal gives you plenty of thick grains on your
>images.

just one more thing: i just developed and printed 8x10" a couple of
135/36 tmz and i was *really* disappointed by it, compared to the
delta3200s i've been using for months.

i usually shoot delta3200 and then develop it in rodinal 1+[a lot];
the tmz was developed using kodak tmax.
for all of them i always use the dev times taken on digitaltruth.com

the grain size of tmz is comparable to the one of delta3200, but the
shape and kind of grain really disappointed me. if needed, i can scan
a couple of details of prints made with these films.

regards,

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Gianni Rondinini
VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo
Hai capito, shelf?

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Lloyd Erlick - 09 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT

...

>Ilford Delta 3200? The local places don't stock it, but I'll try
>mail-ordering it. I tried Delta 400 many years ago and was not
>impressed at the time... But I didn't try very hard. It seemed not
>too much different than Tri-X.

...

jul905 from Lloyd Erlick,

I like the grain pattern I saw in D3200. I
liked this film rated at EI 800. For grain
and interesting tonality, I'd try developing
it in Rodinal. Maybe diluted 1+50, testing
would be in order. I'd guess development time
of 12-15 minutes.

I too thought the grain pattern of D3200 was
reminiscent of Tri-X. A 120 neg will need a
fair bit of enlargement to reveal the grain
clearly...

regards,
--le

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Frank Calidonna - 10 Jul 2005 15:48 GMT

Tri-X developed in Rodinol produces enhanced grain. One can also get
grain to the max by contact printing the above negative to Kodalith or
similar lith film then contacting that positive to lith film for a high
contrast negative that will print grain the size of bowling balls. Or
you can play with the process to get something in between.

Frank Rome, NY

> jul905 from Lloyd Erlick,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> net: www.heylloyd.com
> ________________________________

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