Agfaphoto bankruptcy sceme

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Gilbert - 28 May 2005 20:51 GMT

On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:43:58 +0200, fotoralf@gmx.de (Ralf R.
Radermacher) wrote:

>The whole thing stinks. Ten miles against the wind.

Yes it does.

>As we learned later today, the legal procedure was already initiated
>last week and they then waited until late Wednesday night to inform the
>company's trade union representatives.
>
>By that time, all of the staff had already left for an extended weekend
>since Thursday was a bank holiday and most people had taken Friday off.
>
>Clever timing... :-/
>
>Ralf

Just a small hypothesis :

What do you do when a branch of your otherwise flourishing company is
going down the drain? Just firing hundreds of employees is expensive
in Germany, because the rest of the company makes money. So you have
to pay for re-education, premature pensions etc. And then there are
the companies you owe money (In this case that's Agfa-Gevaert AG
himself.)

There is a simple solution:

You split off the branch into an independant company which seeminly
wants to make "a fresh start". Then you liquidate the stocks at prices
that cannot produce real profits. (Which is exactly what Agfaphoto has
been doing the last few months.) First you pay off the loans of the
former mothercompany (Agfa-Gevaert AG). When wages and creditors
cannot be payed anymore, you file for bankruptcy. You don't have to
buy out employees, because there simply isn't any money left. You sell
off all equipment, buildings etc. Some wages and some debts are payed.
(First of all to the biggest creditors: Taxes and Agfa-Gevaert AG).
And then the company simply stops to exist.

Since Agfa-Gevaert AG isn't responsable anymore, they don't pay
anything. Maybe they are left with a loan that hasn't been repayed.
But I guess that loss is a lot smaller than buying out employees and
paying the other creditors. A neat and clean liquidation construction.

But maybe I am just paranoia.

Gilbert
Gilbert

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Ron Todd - 29 May 2005 05:13 GMT

>On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:43:58 +0200, fotoralf@gmx.de (Ralf R.
>Radermacher) wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
>But maybe I am just paranoia.

This scenario also crossed my mind. The only reason I haven't given
it more credence is that the German government is socialist and the
labor unions are a de facto part of the government. Therefore, the
German government would confiscate enough of AG's capital in reprisal
to make it more painful than just closing the division out right.

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Gilbert - 29 May 2005 07:35 GMT

>>Just a small hypothesis :
>> (...). A neat and clean liquidation construction.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>German government would confiscate enough of AG's capital in reprisal
>to make it more painful than just closing the division out right.

Managers of big companies always find ways to avoid government rules.
Wether they are in Germany or elsewhere. That's what they are payed
for.

Gilbert

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Ralf R. Radermacher - 29 May 2005 10:34 GMT

> This scenario also crossed my mind. The only reason I haven't given
> it more credence is that the German government is socialist

Our government is WHAT...????

This is just another conservative government. The German Social
Democratic Party is about as socialist as its main opponent, the
Christian Democratic Party, is christian.

> and the labor unions are a de facto part of the government.

And this is why they are tamer than ever because they can't speak out
against their 'own' party in times when voters run away in droves.

> Therefore, the
> German government would confiscate enough of AG's capital in reprisal
> to make it more painful than just closing the division out right.

Nonsense. There's no legal background that would allow them to do this.

Ralf

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Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
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John - 30 May 2005 08:01 GMT

>This is just another conservative government. The German Social
>Democratic Party is about as socialist as its main opponent, the
>Christian Democratic Party, is christian.

Every now and then you hit the nail right on the head ! There are two constants in
every government. Hypocrisy and corruption.

JD - www.puresilver.org

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Ron Todd - 01 Jun 2005 00:35 GMT

>> This scenario also crossed my mind. The only reason I haven't given
>> it more credence is that the German government is socialist
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Ralf

(1) Then I take it either you have a different concept of socialism or
this is that German genetic predisposition to self delusion. My
favorite example being in Massie where the Kaiser, and the rest of the
court other than his mother, keeps saying something to the effect "if
the English only understand us I'm sure this can all be worked out...
it is so obvious we are in the right...," or something to that effect.

(2) Again, relying on history, the German concept of "law" has always
impressed me as rather flexible.

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geo - 23 Jun 2005 21:22 GMT

> (2) Again, relying on history, the German concept of "law" has always
> impressed me as rather flexible.

I hardly think Germans have a monopoly on that.

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