This past weekend I shot a roll of Kodak HIE Infared film. I use a
Nikon F100 w/ a Nikor 50mm 1.4 lens and a 25 red filter, and rated the
film at asa 50. To test my first roll of infared I shot a varaity of
subjects so see the different effects this film had on them. I
developed the film in Tmax 1:4 @ 68* for 6 min using a daylight
processing drum and a roller base. The Massive Development chart calls
for 7 min but as always I reduced the time by 15% to compensate for the
roller system. The negatives came out very dense, even on the light
box w/ a loupe you can just see the faint outline of the images. The
edges of the film are clear and you can read the print easily. What
have I done wrong? This is my first experience with infared so please
nudge me in the right direction to fix my errors.
Regards,
Gary
Robert Feinman - 20 May 2005 14:27 GMT
> This past weekend I shot a roll of Kodak HIE Infared film. I use a
> Nikon F100 w/ a Nikor 50mm 1.4 lens and a 25 red filter, and rated the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Regards,
> Gary
You don't say how you determined the exposure. You really can't use
the camera meter. Try another test using the exposure recommendations
provided with the film. Then for other situations just bracket.
Anything in shade will require much longer exposures even though a
regular meter will only show 3 or 4 stops difference. This is because
there is no IR coming from the blue sky.
If you are in the woods the IR is much brighter than the meter because
the foliage reflects IR and appears almost white.

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Robert D Feinman
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 20 May 2005 14:27 GMT
> Kodak HIE Infared film ... Nikon F100 ... 25 red filter,
> and rated the film at asa 50 ... negatives came out
> very dense ... edges of the film are clear ...
> What have I done wrong?
I take it you set the camera's metering system at 50
and fired away.
A red filter passes IR with little light loss but visible
light is attenuated by 3-stops. The camera's meter only
sees in the visible. Hence the film is ~3 stops overexposed.
This explanation is simplified but gets to the gist of the
matter.
You will have to experiment to find a suitable ASA setting/
exposure correction factor for IR film in _your_
camera/light meter/lens/filter. None of these are specified
for IR and each combination will work a bit differently.
And after you get that down pat the correction factor you
need to apply to your camera's meter will vary with
the subject matter, weather conditions, time of day,
season and weather.
Name of the game is to bracket your exposures. IR tends to
produce contrasty results so bracketing by 1/2 stops for
2 stops around nominal isn't unusual.
Google for IR photography ...

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Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
UC - 20 May 2005 15:25 GMT
> This past weekend I shot a roll of Kodak HIE Infared film. I use a
> Nikon F100 w/ a Nikor 50mm 1.4 lens and a 25 red filter, and rated the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Regards,
> Gary
You overexposed the film. set the meter to about 200 or 400. The meter
reads through the filter, so you don't add the filter factor to the ISO.
Sam G - 22 May 2005 00:49 GMT
I would agree with the testing under controlled conditions. When I first
started using it, I followed a lot of suggestions I read on line in various
places and I was quite unhappy with the results.
Then I shot one or two rolls of 36 exposures pickingd 2 or 3 scenes with
different kinds of light (open sunlight, mottled light in woods, etc). For
each of these scenes, started with a high ASA (like 600 or 1000) and shot a
series of brackets exposures keeping the fstop steady and allowing the
camera's meter to adjust only the exposure times. Then I repeated the same
thing with a number of lower asa settings . (I am using a much denser red
filter than you are). I ended up with 12 or 24 "trials" of each different
scene. When I did my contact prints, it was pretty obvious what ASA setting
my camera would need with this film. This gave me a starting point for
future use of the film. It was a bit time consuming, but so was the time
and money I wasted on the first few rolls I "winged" and came up with
garbage. I still bracket 1 or 2 stops on either side of the "baseline"
exposures whenever I shoot this film (I had good luck developing in ID-11 at
the higher end of the recommended times).
Sam
Dr. Dagor - 26 May 2005 06:15 GMT
You ran afoul of the classic exposure problem with IR film. Kodak's
tech note on the film talks about it pretty clearly.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f13/f13.jhtml
When Kodak says High Speed (as in Hie) they mean it. The stuff is
FAST. In daylight scenes you might want to expose it like ASA 500 or
1000 film. But you can't trust your meter because the meter isn't
reading IR.
Joshua Putnam - 26 May 2005 06:47 GMT
> When Kodak says High Speed (as in Hie) they mean it. The stuff is
> FAST. In daylight scenes you might want to expose it like ASA 500 or
> 1000 film. But you can't trust your meter because the meter isn't
> reading IR.
If you take the time to calibrate your meter for a particular filter,
you can meter through the filter and get good results.
But in my experience it's more of a pain than it's worth. HIE
exposure is extremely predictable once you get used to it, so Sunny
16 is all the metering you really need for pictures from broad
daylight to heavy overcast and thunderstorms.
Interior and low-light photos are a different matter, there it can be
very handy to have your meter calibrated for the film and filter
combination you're using.

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josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Infrared Photography Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/irbooks.html>
John - 26 May 2005 12:19 GMT
>You ran afoul of the classic exposure problem with IR film. Kodak's
>tech note on the film talks about it pretty clearly.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>1000 film. But you can't trust your meter because the meter isn't
>reading IR.
I always used EI100 or EI200. Grainy but gorgeously soft.
JD - www.puresilver.org
Stewy - 28 May 2005 03:32 GMT
> This past weekend I shot a roll of Kodak HIE Infared film. I use a
> Nikon F100 w/ a Nikor 50mm 1.4 lens and a 25 red filter, and rated the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> have I done wrong? This is my first experience with infared so please
> nudge me in the right direction to fix my errors.
I always found film IR to be slightly more trouble than it's worth.
Getting the film in the first place was a problem, then, has it been
stored correctly?
Shooting IR meant I had to wait for the perfect day - bright direct
sunshine in the earlier morning or later afternoon. Chemistry was
usually difficult to obtain and exposure compensation as well as
processing time was a pain in the neck.
Having heard digital was much easier a few years ago, I've been
experimenting with that. Results so far have been good but not great.
Due to the density of the R72 exposure times were a second or more
meaning any wind ruined a shot of trees - ivy worked a lot better. Also
de-saturation in Photoshop proved a problem - some favour partial
de-saturation leaving a reddish tinge, some complete de-saturation and
yet others favour using channels to produce a blueish tinge.
While I'm not advocating a total switch from film to digital, I am
saying that trying the more 'esoteric' forms of photography (IR and
stereoscopy - the most popular) digital seems to make it much easier
than film.
Richard Knoppow - 29 May 2005 23:18 GMT
> In article
> <1116593617.106913.29190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> much easier
> than film.
What chemistry problem did you have with IR film? Mostly
it will develop an any standard B&W developer and nothing
else esoteric is required.
What digital cameras are available that work at IR? I
don't mean special ones made for spectroscopy or astronomy
but off the shelf point and shoot types. Maybe there is one
I don't know about.
IR film is a bother because it was never a high volume
item and is now very low volume. You are quite right that it
has to be stored properly but IR film is not sensitive to
heat, as is sometimes thought. By sensitive I mean as to
being fogged by exposure, its sensitive to heat as all
emulsions are in that heat tends to accelerate aging.

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---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Nicholas O. Lindan - 30 May 2005 15:56 GMT
> What digital cameras are available that work at IR?
All silicon solid state sensors have IR sensitivity.
Remember the flap a few years ago with cam-corders and
IR filters?
If the camera doesn't pick up IR it is because it has
an IR absorbance filter - AKA the blue filter used in
the 'Silicon Blue Cell' of the early days of silicon
photodiode exposure meters. The IR filter function is
often incorporated into the RGB filters of the CCD/CMOS
sensor array.
For good resolution the IR needs be filtered out.
Web-cams and $20 digital cameras may be quite
sensitive in the IR as it saves the $$ of the IR
filter.

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Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
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Travis Porco - 31 May 2005 00:02 GMT
>> What digital cameras are available that work at IR?
>All silicon solid state sensors have IR sensitivity.
>Remember the flap a few years ago with cam-corders and
>IR filters?
>If the camera doesn't pick up IR it is because it has
>an IR absorbance filter - AKA the blue filter used in
>the 'Silicon Blue Cell' of the early days of silicon
>photodiode exposure meters. The IR filter function is
>often incorporated into the RGB filters of the CCD/CMOS
>sensor array.
>For good resolution the IR needs be filtered out.
>Web-cams and $20 digital cameras may be quite
>sensitive in the IR as it saves the $$ of the IR
>filter.
Interesting--I wonder if you have any specific suggestions you've tried.
Thanks.
Mike King - 31 May 2005 03:01 GMT
I just picked my first Digital SLR, an ancient DCS-200, the DCS-200 and
DCS-15 are 1.5 megapixel SLR's but will use all my old Nikkor lenses (unlike
newer D-100 and D-70) AND the manual advocates an add-on IR cutting filter
for better results under tungsten light. What I think this means (still
building a kludge power pack for camera) is that it should be good for
digital IR since it has no internal "hot" mirror!
Yeah I know, it's a film forum but this thing is so old it's an antique(!)
but it's bases on the 8008s Nikon and I have two film bodies for spare parts
(if needed and enough 8008 stuff I can convert it to film if the digital
poops out).

Signature
darkroommike
----------
>
> >> What digital cameras are available that work at IR?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Interesting--I wonder if you have any specific suggestions you've tried.
> Thanks.