Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Xtol underdeveloping TMX

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
pgg - 15 May 2005 21:59 GMT
I'm on an 8-month batch of Xtol.  In the last 10 days, I've developed
several rolls of film.  The TriX and Delta rolls came out perfect.
However 3 rolls of TMX came out very very thin (hardly useable at all).
I've followed the recommended times found at www.digitaltruth.com for all
developing.

Is there a reason why Xtol would fail with TMX only?
Justin Thyme - 15 May 2005 23:54 GMT
> I'm on an 8-month batch of Xtol.  In the last 10 days, I've developed
> several rolls of film.  The TriX and Delta rolls came out perfect.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Is there a reason why Xtol would fail with TMX only?
specifically which time and what EI did you use?
I just had a look at the massive dev chart and found that at EI100, with
stock solution of XTOL, there are times of 6.75 and also 7.5 minutes. I've
never used XTOL but just looking at it's times on various films compared to
my normal developer (LC29 1:19), it generally appears to be a bit slower.
LC29 is supposed to take 7.5 minutes to do TMX, so I'd think that the 7.5
would be the more accurate time. I haven't used TMX either, but with TMZ I
found I always got thin negs using the time listed on digitaltruth, which
was 30sec longer than the time on the bottle of developer.
My conclusion then would be that you need a bit more time in developer.
Alternatively, you didn't say if you were using 1-shot or re-using the
developer - it's not starting to exhaust is it?
pgg - 16 May 2005 00:09 GMT
I did 9 minutes in a 1:1 dilution, one-shot.

> more accurate time. I haven't us
Rod Smith - 16 May 2005 01:40 GMT
> I'm on an 8-month batch of Xtol.  In the last 10 days, I've developed
> several rolls of film.  The TriX and Delta rolls came out perfect.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Is there a reason why Xtol would fail with TMX only?

First, a disclaimer: I've yet to try XTOL. I've researched it, and I've
got a package of it sitting in my darkroom, but I've not yet used it.

My first thought is that I've heard that TMX users are the most likely to
report instances of "XTOL sudden failure" syndrome, but I've never seen
any reports about whether XTOL that's failed with TMX will work with other
films. Perhaps this is what you're running into, with your XTOL failing on
your TMX but not on your other films. The fact that your XTOL is 8 months
old is at least potentially consistent with this hypothesis. Kodak claims
a 6-month shelf life for XTOL stock solution, and although Kodak seems to
be generally conservative about such claims, it could be you're pushing
it, particularly for TMX and/or if your storage condition or mixing was
less than optimal.

My second thought is that you might be using too high a dilution of XTOL.
Kodak used to provide recommendations for using XTOL at anywhere from
stock strength up to 1:3 dilution, but now they only recommend stock and
1:1 dilution. To further elaborate, Kodak recommends using at least 100ml
of stock solution per 36-exposure roll of 35mm film. I've seen claims that
this recommendation is based on TMX, and that other films can often get by
with greater dilution. Thus, if you're using more than 1:1 dilution (as
some of the DigitalTruth table entries specify), particularly with a tank
that's thrifty with its chemicals, this could be the problem.

FWIW, here are a couple of Web pages with tips on using XTOL:

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/xtol/
http://canid.com/xtol_faq.html

A Web search on "XTOL sudden failure" will turn up lots more, particularly
related to its propensity for, well, sudden failure. There's been lots
posted on this topic, and everybody seems to have a pet theory about the
cause, but I've yet to see anything that really convincingly nails it
down. I have found a few home-brew formulas that are similar to XTOL with
good-sounding stories about why they should last longer, but little or no
evidence from the field, as it were. If you care to try cooking up your
own developer, check these out:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.photo.darkroom/msg/a1183c0c58b9b06
http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/film-dev-recommend.html

I've tried the former (but just for a couple of test rolls, so far), but
not (yet) the latter.

Signature

Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

Richard Knoppow - 20 May 2005 23:27 GMT
> I'm on an 8-month batch of Xtol.  In the last 10 days,
> I've developed
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Is there a reason why Xtol would fail with TMX only?

   It seems to me that if the developer goes bad it will do
so for all films. From the above it sounds like you have
been getting good results from both films up til now, is
that correct?  Have you developed any more Delta after the
T-Max failure, did they come out OK?
   If you are developing in separate batches is there a
possibility that some error occured, say temperature being
off or the dilution being wrong?
   If you can run a clip test that would tell you if the
problem is the developer stock or something else.
   I have had the Xtol sudden death failure but in my case
the developer didn't develop any film properly.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

ericm1600@yahoo.com - 21 May 2005 00:13 GMT
>Is there a reason why Xtol would fail with TMX only?

TMX is particularly sensitive to the amount of Xtol used.  Make sure you are
using at least 100 ml of undiluted Xtol for every 36-exposure roll or
equivalent.  Since you're doing 1:1 that means 200 ml of diluted developer
per roll, which shouldn't be a problem.  From my understanding, TMX is the
reason why Kodak revised their recommendations for dilutions and minimum
developer amounts.

--
Eric
http://canid.com/
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.