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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005

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Jobo CPE-2 Leaking Processing Chemicals

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Rich Shepard - 14 May 2005 21:23 GMT
 I bought a used Jobo CPE-2 with a lift a few years ago. Haven't used it the
past year because my "spare" time was spent writing a book. I suspect that
it's leaking chemicals because I get only 80-100 ml out when I put 240 ml in.
Don't think it's the top of the small tank not properly seated.

 Is this a known issue with old units? Are there parts that ought to be
replaced (seals, for example) every now and then? I'll try to remember to
call Jobo Monday morning, but I might as well ask here over the weekend. BTW,
a google search did not return anything useful.

Thanks,

Rich
Jean-David Beyer - 14 May 2005 22:29 GMT
>   I bought a used Jobo CPE-2 with a lift a few years ago. Haven't used it the
> past year because my "spare" time was spent writing a book. I suspect that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> call Jobo Monday morning, but I might as well ask here over the weekend. BTW,
> a google search did not return anything useful.

My units are from the early 1980s, mostly, but for the 2500 series stuff
thas is more recent. Nothing leaks. About the only place that _could_ leak
would be where the top fastens to the tank, or where extenders connect to
one another. And, since there is no pressure in there, there would be no
reason for leakage.

I am examining my 2521 tank as I type this. Magnet drive, but that should
not matter any. You never fill a tank up to where it would leak out the
filler opening even when it is on its side. I used to have a 1500 series
tank, but did not like it when compared with the 2500 series. I tried to
give it away, but no one wanted it, so I threw it out. Sigh.

There is a rim around the outside about 1/2 inch down from the top edge of
the tank. The top is black with a red cap and a red attachment ring. The
bottom edge of the top has many springy fingers about 1/16" apart and about
7/16" wide. When the top is on properly the gingers seem to grip the rim on
the top of the tank. There does not appear to be any seal or o-ring there to
need replacing.

Is the funnel in there properly?

OTOH, the explanation that that much chemistry is attached to the materials
and the tank seems implausible; some, yes, but 140ml?!!!

Could you be attaching the top incorrectly?

Fill the tank to the top with water and stand it up somewhere very dry, and
see if it leaks, and _where_. I would not expect it to.

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Nick Zentena - 15 May 2005 12:10 GMT
> My units are from the early 1980s, mostly, but for the 2500 series stuff
> thas is more recent. Nothing leaks. About the only place that _could_ leak
> would be where the top fastens to the tank, or where extenders connect to
> one another. And, since there is no pressure in there, there would be no
> reason for leakage.

 I know the big print drum [2850?] will leak if not assembled right. The
joint between the bottom and the extension will leak quite a bit. With
colour processing you actually might get pressure build up in the tank.
Before I switched to using a pre-wash I've seen lids blown off the smaller
tanks while I rolled them in a water bath. Not the whole lid just the red
rubber cap. All this at less then 100F.

Nick

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Jean-David Beyer - 15 May 2005 13:18 GMT
>> My units are from the early 1980s, mostly, but for the 2500 series
>> stuff thas is more recent. Nothing leaks. About the only place that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> smaller tanks while I rolled them in a water bath. Not the whole lid just
> the red rubber cap. All this at less then 100F.

The newer caps are made as a diaphragm that you push in when putting the cap
on. Pressure build-up pops it out bunt not off. I punched a tiny hole with a
needle in my old caps. This is too small to cause leakage, and it is above
the "solution line" in the tank anyway, so that relieves the pressure.

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Ralf R. Radermacher - 14 May 2005 22:59 GMT
>   Is this a known issue with old units?

Those lifts do tend to become leaky with age but then you should see
your chemicals seeping out of the lift's housing somewhere. There is
some kind of a gasket in the 2-way contraption that switches between the
inlet and outlet. I've tried to repair this myself a few years ago but
that only made matters worse.

On a more general note: you'll want to think twice before you start any
attempt at doing your own repairwork on a Jobo. As solid as all their
machines appear from the outside and from handling them, once you open
any of them you'll be wondering how this could ever work at all.

I'll never forget the first time I opened an ATL-1: if I had made this
from stuff gathered at various DIY supply stores, I'd have been mighty
proud of myself. But as a commercial product sold for the equivalent of
a decent second-hand car...? A trifle odd, to say the least.

Ralf

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manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
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Nicholas O. Lindan - 15 May 2005 19:46 GMT
> I'll never forget the first time I opened an ATL-1: if I had made this
> from stuff gathered at various DIY supply stores, I'd have been mighty
> proud of myself. But as a commercial product sold for the equivalent of
> a decent second-hand car...? A trifle odd, to say the least.

Mickey-mouse innards are more the norm than the exception in this class
of equipment.  Even extends to medical equipment: look under the hood
of some of it and you will faint.  The very large firms - Abbott,
Bayer, Johnson & Johnson ... - do a superb job of the innards.  The
small to middlin' firms are, with some exceptions, small to middlin'
disasters.

Jobo knows plastic injection molding.  And they know photo processing.
But they will be very, very weak in automation, electronics, software,
UL/VDE standards and good design practice for automated chemistry
equipment.

Many firms don't know enough outside their specialty to be able to
hire competent individuals and firms to design and manufacture the
'other half' of their equipment.

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Ralf R. Radermacher - 15 May 2005 20:36 GMT
> Jobo knows plastic injection molding.  

Hell, they know how to make a whole house out of a spoonful. :-)

> But they will be very, very weak in automation, electronics, software,
> UL/VDE standards and good design practice for automated chemistry
> equipment.

Have you ever seen the rear of their CPP or ATL-1 processors? A mains
input socket of the type found on any old domestic or office equipment
and a plastic thread for connecting a pressurized water hose a mere inch
apart. Gives me the creeps each time I look at it.

And that's only the outside. When I opened my first ATL-1, the mains
transformer was up to its windings in water and chemistry. The machine
was still working, mind you.

Ever wondered why the stuff is still rather heavy? It's the gallon of
silicon sealant that keeps them tight and holds them together.

Funny, though, and a far cry from the typical German produce which is
always way over the top as far as safety, solidity, and generous use of
ressources goes. To me, the design of those Jobo machines looks  - I
hope readers will forgive me - quintessentially British. ;-)

Ralf

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Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Frank Pittel - 15 May 2005 03:26 GMT
I would start by by checking the red washer in the lid of the tank.
You could also try a "dry run of the processor by draining the water
out of the water jacket and no film in the tank. Put the tank in the
processor, turn on the agitation motor and fill the tank with water.
From there it's a matter watching for where the water is leaking from.

You do want to make sure to set the temperature control to the lowest temp
so the heaters don't come on.

:   I bought a used Jobo CPE-2 with a lift a few years ago. Haven't used it the
: past year because my "spare" time was spent writing a book. I suspect that
: it's leaking chemicals because I get only 80-100 ml out when I put 240 ml in.
: Don't think it's the top of the small tank not properly seated.

:   Is this a known issue with old units? Are there parts that ought to be
: replaced (seals, for example) every now and then? I'll try to remember to
: call Jobo Monday morning, but I might as well ask here over the weekend. BTW,
: a google search did not return anything useful.

: Thanks,

: Rich

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