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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005

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Hydroquinone stains

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Elia Freddi - 06 May 2005 06:02 GMT
Hi all,

yesterday I made some experiment with hydroquinone as paper developer.
The results are interesting - a kind of lith developer, but on few
sheets some brown stains are left. I guess it's someway due to the
exausted hydroquinone.
Does anybody know how to remove them?
No way with additional rinse...

Thanks a lot!

Elia Freddi
················································
"Sii tecnico spietato con il mezzo e poeta con la mente" - il ratto
"In ogni fotografia c'è sempre qualcosa di troppo, tranne quand'è riuscita" - Edouard Boubat

MypagE at http://efreddi.altervista.org/
Nicholas O. Lindan - 06 May 2005 16:01 GMT
> yesterday I made some experiment with hydroquinone as paper developer.
> The results are interesting - a kind of lith developer, but on few
> sheets some brown stains are left.

Hydroquinone is a component of almost all paper developers.  Are
you using hQ as the sole agent in combination with sulfite, bromide,
etc., or are you using hQ as the only chemical in the developer?

You don't give enough information to determine the cause of the
staining.

Selenium toner is often the cause of permanent staining.
 
> I guess it's someway due to the exhausted hydroquinone.

If this is the case:

Developer stains are, in general, impossible to remove.

The most expedient solution may be to throw out the stained
prints and make replacements.

If don't want to do this then I would begin by making up a stack
of hQ stained prints to sacrifice in the name of experimentation.
In finding a way to consistently make stained prints you will find
the cause of the staining.

From a position of ignorance, mild reducing agent may work:
s. sulfite, vitamin C ...  A dash of carbonate may help to unstick
the oxidized hQ.  A re-fix in fresh fix is a good idea.

Potassium permanganate and nitric acid make up a universal stain
remover.  However, permanganate can leave permanent brown stains
on anything organic [paper and gelatin] and nitric acid if not
very dilute will eat away the gelatin and turn the paper into
highly flammable and unstable nitro-cellulose.  OTOH, it might be
worth a try ...

Don't use chlorine bleach, it will remove the emulsion.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Richard Knoppow - 06 May 2005 21:10 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Elia Freddi

   What is the formula for the developer?  Hydroquinone as
a sole developing agent is a very high contrast developer
when used at high pH, usually with hydroxide as the
accelerator, but very warm tone developers can be made using
carbonates.
   If there is not adequate sulfite in the developer stains
can be produced as the result of the reaction products of
Hydroquinone.
An example of a warm tone developer using Hydroquinone as
the sole developer is Ansco/Agfa 110

Agfa 110 Brown Black Paper Developer Stock Solution

Water (at 125F or 52C)                        750.0 ml
Hydroquinone                                   22.5 grams
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated                     57.0 grams
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated                 75.0 grams
Potassium Bromide                               2.8 grams
Water to make                                   1.0 liter

For use dilute 1 part stock with 5 parts water. Expose
prints 3 to 4 times normal and develop 5 to 7 minutes at 68F
(20C).

  Although the above formula shows the Hydroquinone being
dissolved first its probably better to dissolve the sulfite
first. Hydroquinone will dissolve in Sulfite solutions,
unlike Metol.

  I am copying this formula as an example. It may be
practical but I've not tried it.
Agfa also had a warm tone developer using Hydroquinone and
Glycin (No.115).   This does not require the overexposure
and long development of the above. From the description it
is not as warm as 110, which is supposed to produce brown
images on warm tone paper, at least the warm tone paper of
the time. No.115 dates from the late 1930's some time.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Elia Freddi - 07 May 2005 15:16 GMT
Thank both of you for your answers.

Actually I forgot to put some more detail. The developer is self made,
the formula as follow:

NaOH: 7gr
Ascorbic acid: 1 gr
Hydroquinone: 2 gr
Tap water: 1 liter

it's woth to remember to any reader how is dangerous the NaOH - pay
attention to protect yourself and use cold water.

I added the ascorbic acid just to avoid a fast oxidation. I tried with
some sodium sulfite (5 gr per liter) but there is no more the lith
effect. It keeps for 1 hours more or less, I know too short, but
enough to develope some paper. With Agfa MCC it works very fine, with
a smooth infectious development. With Agfa MCP instead it's very fast,
very high contrast and difficult to control, not recomended. The
overall tone is just slightly warm.

The staining I had I think it's due to exausted developer. As I
understand, no way to remove it... Ok, not a big issue.

Regards

Elia Freddi
················································
"Sii tecnico spietato con il mezzo e poeta con la mente" - il ratto
"In ogni fotografia c'è sempre qualcosa di troppo, tranne quand'è riuscita" - Edouard Boubat

MypagE at http://efreddi.altervista.org/
dan.c.quinn@att.net - 07 May 2005 23:31 GMT
> Thank both of you for your answers.
> Actually I forgot to put some more detail. The developer is self made,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Hydroquinone: 2 gr
> Tap water: 1 liter

 Interesting formula. That's all one needs for a lith developer;
Alkali, preservative, and hydroquinone. I almost forgot, OXYGEN. A
carbonate will do for the alkali and sulfite for the preservative
and air for the OXYGEN.
 A year ago, with no intention, I compounded a lith developer. A
protracted development gave interesting results. With some study and
further tests I confirmed it was the lith phenomenon.

> I added the ascorbic acid just to avoid a fast oxidation. I tried with
> some sodium sulfite (5 gr per liter) but there is no more the lith
> effect.

 If you care to, test some more with sulfite and carbonate. Put only a
little developer in the tray; no more than 250ml on an 8 x 10 basis.
Allow at least 8 minutes for the lith effect to generate. More or
less time may be the case.
 There was an English site on the WWW with a lot of lith formulas. I
see just now it has been droped. A German version still exists. Wall's
Normal Hydroquinone lith developer may be of interest. Dan
PATRICK GAINER - 25 May 2005 01:07 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
>  

Hydroquinone used as in your formula is a tanning-staining developer in
the class of catechol. A small amount of sulfite will eliminate the
staining, but the staining is what gives it a warm tone effect. The
stain is redder than pyrogallol's and not as resistant to sulfite. The
stain is a dye formed when hydroquinone is oxidized, and it is quite
permanent AFIK.

I would suggest keeping the developing agents and NaOH or other alkali
in separate solutions to be mixed just before use, as the oxidation
begins soon after mixing.
dan.c.quinn@att.net - 27 May 2005 23:59 GMT
> > NaOH: 7gr
> > Ascorbic acid: 1 gr
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> protracted development gave interesting results. With some study
> and further tests I confirmed it was the lith phenomenon.

 I mentioned oxygen. I will expand on that. For the lith
phenomena to take place oxygen is NOT needed BUT is always present.
Some may not take that into account. I do because I use very dilute
minimal volume solutions. That oxygen will destroy sulfite or A.
acid more quickly where small volume, highly dilute solutions
are used. Low preservative levels are needed with lith
developers. Search this NG for, semiquinone .

> > I added the ascorbic acid just to avoid a fast oxidation. I
> > tried with some sodium sulfite (5 gr per liter) but there
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> see just now it has been droped. A German version still exists. Wall's
> Normal Hydroquinone lith developer may be of interest. Dan

 That site with a lot of lith formulas is back. From Google
search for, "lith formulas" . I've perhaps half a dozen 'lith'
formulas, not counting my own, which do not require a hydroxide
or formaldehyde. Lith? I suppose so. I wonder if Dr. Gudzinowicz
ever got around to working with Wall's Normal Hydroquinone? Dan
 
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