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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005ILFORD HYPAM FIXER
hİİ A bottle of hypam fixer was felt down and about a 1/3 bottle of them flew to the floor of darkroom.I wash and clear immediatally but it took time and it stinks.How ever I opened all windows,two days long the smell are there and stinks to much but i dont go in for photograpic works in this two days.After this little accident I begin to cough.Can be this cough connected with this situation? What should I do? Can it be toxic inhalation? > hII > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > days.After this little accident I begin to cough.Can be this cough > connected with this situation? What should I do? Can it be toxic inhalation? Suggest you wash the floor, again, with diluted washing soda (sodium carbonate) so as to neutralise the acid in the fixer. Rinse floor with clean water. Were you smoking whilst cleaning up the initial spillage?  SignatureM Stewart Milton Keynes, UK http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm No i did not smoke.Can it be a critical damage when i wash and clear the floor,because it took a little time.Is it the way for a irritation with the inhale way,that the manufactarers told by info sheets,because i have really bad caugh. What was your opinion? Can Ilford Hypam Fixer be so hazardly? > No i did not smoke.Can it be a critical damage when i wash and clear the > floor,because it took a little time.Is it the way for a irritation with the > inhale way,that the manufactarers told by info sheets,because i have really > bad caugh. What was your opinion? Can Ilford Hypam Fixer be so hazardly? The SDS for Ilford Hypam is downloadable from the page below. Doesn't look that dangerous. http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/sds/sds.asp (Are you familiar with SDS terminology ? If not, you can draw the wrong conclusions! I have... ...in the past) SignatureM Stewart Milton Keynes, UK http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm Thank you at first.No,I am not familiar with safety data terminology.Whats the speciality of that? Is it written for worse cases? Is the terminology to pessimistic as values for inhale and toxic hazard? Is anyone there that have good chemical informations about hypam fixer and photo chemicals irritation and hazard.and anyone,who had some trouble with hypam fixer? I don't know very much about effects of chemicals and after this little accident i am to concerned.Is the ingredients of hypam fixer chemical too hazardous? > Is anyone there that have good chemical informations about hypam fixer and > photo chemicals irritation and hazard.and anyone,who had some trouble with > hypam fixer? I don't know very much about effects of chemicals and after > this little accident i am to concerned.Is the ingredients of hypam fixer > chemical too hazardous? I do not know specifically what is in HyPam, but it is probably either a standard fixer like Kodak's F-5, F-6, or a rapid fixer. None of the chemicals in those are considered very hazardous. They tend to contain a fixing agent, Sodium thiosulphate or ammonium thiosulphate. They contain a "preservative", sodium sulphite (that can cause problems if someone with asthma eats it). An acid: acetic acid for liquid fixers, and sodium metabisulphite for dry fixers. Sulphuric acid is used in some hardening rapid fixers. Aluminum sulphate (or "potassium alum"). The last two are there for hardening. Now your reactions sound severe. While all these chemicals are considered safe (though you should use a little common sense and not eat the stuff, nor should you pour sulphuric acid on yourself. I have accidently spilled a little glacial acetic acid on myself and never felt a thing, though I did wash it off immediately), it is impossible to know what allergic reactions you may have. Also, fear of the unknnow can cause psychosomatic symptoms. It has already been suggested to wash the place, possibly neutralizing the acid with something like sodium carbonate. I would not bother as the acid in the working bath is weaker than common vinagre; the washing should take care of it. Signature.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 13:05:00 up 5 days, 6:42, 3 users, load average: 4.07, 4.08, 4.23 > No,I am not familiar with safety data terminology.Whats > the speciality of that? There is one for water: "In case of ingestion give plenty of water. Do not inhale. Large quantities may cause drowning. ..." The warnings are well past 'worst case'. Am. Thiosulfate, unless you gargle with it, will not give you a cough. Neither will dilute acetic acid (vinegar) - unless eating a salad also gives you a cough. Thiosulfate will dry and be a bit smelly until it degrades. Thiosulfate is unstable and in the presence of air will form sulfur and sulfite. If you have ever drunk a bottle of wine or eaten an onion then you have already ingested a much larger quantity of misc. sulfur compounds. Eat an onion salad and drink a bottle of wine and I'll bet the smell goes away. Cleaning the floor: If it smells like vinegar then it is acetic acid that you smell. _However_ if the floor is dry then all the acetic acid has already evaporated and cleaning the floor some more won't do anything - open a window, and blow air with a fan. If cleaning the floor will make you feel better then wash the floor with a tablespoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in a liter of water (amounts not critical). If the smell is mild and a bit sweet then it is Ammonium Thiosulfate. This will smell after it dries. You can neutralize it with a spoonful of chlorine (for washing clothes) in a bucket of water. Make sure you have plenty of air, though, the chlorine may give you a bad cough. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ >> No,I am not familiar with safety data terminology.Whats >> the speciality of that? > > There is one for water: "In case of ingestion give > plenty of water. Do not inhale. Large quantities > may cause drowning. ..." Speaking of which, some might find the following site amusing: http://www.dhmo.org Remember your high school chemistry and translate "dihydrogen monoxide" into a more common term. ;-) More to the OP's original question, according to the Ilford MSDS sheet, Ilford hypam fixer contains sodium acetate, ammonium thiosulfate, boric acid, acetic acid, sodium sulphite, and of course water. I'm not sure offhand which of those is likely to cause the sort of reactions the OP described. (If the fixer had been partly used, there's also the possibility that byproducts of its use are to blame.) There are other fixer formulations, and the OP might want to look into using one of them in the future. One I've recently tried is the Arista Premium Odorless powdered fixer from Freestyle (http://www.freestylephoto.biz). It seems to result in less nasal irritation for me during and soon after a developing session than does Kodak's standard fixer, but I can't promise the OP would find it any better. Another that I've seen recommended on this score is TF2, which is a mix-it-yourself formula: http://www.jackspcs.com/tf2.htm I don't know which, if any, commercial products are similar to TF2, and I've not yet tried it myself, so I can't comment on it from personal experience. Of course, none of this helps the OP clean up a darkroom that's smelly because of a spill; I offer these options as suggestions to help avoid similar problems in the future. SignatureRod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking > In article > <vduce.1613$7F4.571@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > to help avoid > similar problems in the future. Hypam is a conventional Ammonium thiosulfate fixer with an optional hardener. It is similar to Kodak Rapid Fixer and Hardener. One can choose to use the fixer without adding the hardener. Since the pH of the bath is less acid this way it will have lower odor. Ilford also makes a similar rapid fixer, but without the hardener auxilliary, under the name Ilford Rapid Fixer, I think this is also the same product sold as Ilford Multigrade Fixer. There is nothing particularly hazardous in any of these but the strong odor of Ammonia and of Acetic acid which is released if the concentrate is spilled may cause a choke reflex in many people The best way to clean up a spill is to dilute it with plenty of cold water and mop it up. Any residual acid can be neutralized with common baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). The area of the spill should be well aired out. Ammonia evaporates rapidly so that odor should leave quickly. The main danger from strong concentrations of Ammonia is asphyxiation, probably not a serious consideration here. A note: All of the major manufacturers of photo chemicals maintain call centers where you can get information on what do to do in case of a spill, etc. MSDS are useful but are intended to be legal, not technical or scientific documents. Generally, they are aimed at those who use or store large quantities of substances. AFAIK, no B&W photo chemical packaged by a major manufacturer is hazardous if used with any care at all. For the most part they are benign compared to household cleaning and laundry products. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com Hi, I'm no physician, but it shouldn't be very dangerous to inhale the fumes. For ammonium thiosulphate see http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/AM/ammonium_thiosulfate.html They've got the links to the risk and safety phrases. It's irritating to the eyes and respiratory system, but beyond irritating, substances can be listed as harmful, toxic and highly toxic and this shows to be none of those. I'm not sure about fixers, but generally if it catches fire the fumes are likely to be harmful, otherwise not really. It's possible to become sensitized to mostly anything, but it should mean breathing problems close to the chemicals at all times. Also most adverse effects you get with chemicals tend to cause rather prompt symptoms, like burn when you inhale them. For example washing powders are normally irritants when inhaled but you don't really have to be that careful to use them, just to give an idea of what an irritant can be. Even though the cough is not likely caused by inhaling the fixer fumes, if the cough bothers you, you should go see a physician about it anyway. Also to avoid a very unpleasant situation, you should buy and wear safety goggles. They're cheap, you may never need them, but nothing's worse than be alone and get something in your eyes. Just thought I'd mention it. Antti >hII > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >days.After this little accident I begin to cough.Can be this cough >connected with this situation? What should I do? Can it be toxic inhalation? |
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