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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005

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Traveling With Exposed Film

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Rich Shepard - 27 Apr 2005 02:32 GMT
 This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
film with me (but not pack it in the stored baggage). I don't recall reading
anything about doing the same with exposed, but undeveloped film. Any ideas?

 Would a viable option be to purchase one of them thar new-fangled
protective bags and mail the exposed film home?

TIA,

Rich
Korbin Dallas - 27 Apr 2005 05:42 GMT
>   This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rich

I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing
this for years.

You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the
Airport X-Ray scanner.

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Korbin Dallas
The name was changed to protect the guilty.

xyzzy - 27 Apr 2005 06:27 GMT
If home is in the Washington DC area, don't mail it home.  Because of the
anthrax episode some years ago, mail to most DC post offices are x-rayed.
Mail to one specific post office is "sanitized" - irradiated to high enough
doses to kill any bacteria present.  In that case, the dose will be so high
that the plastic cassette will be warped.  The film won't even fit a
developing tank.

Published data from Kodak says film isn't measurably more sensitive to x-ray
fogging after exposure than before exposure, but there are an awful lot of
folks who believe otherwise.

If you aren't confident of the safety of the airport x-ray machines, ship it
home to yourself.  The less time in transit, the less opportunity for
exposure to radioactive material in shipment, so overnight is best.  DHL is
the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments of radioactive
material, which means your film wouldn't be near someone else's rad
material.  But that only applies to the cities served directly by DHL - if
the pickup or destination is in a city not directly served by DHL, they
subcontract that part to other carriers, and travelling in the same vehicle
with rad material becomes a possibility.  Still, that confines the
possibility to only that part of the trip outside the DHL cities.

Ultimately, if you want certainty about radiation exposure, you need to
drive (but that just changes the risk to another subject area).  Otherwise,
there is some risk, and the best you can do is minimize the opportunities
for fogging.  Personnaly, my own estimate is that the risk from gate
security x-rays machines and exposure during overnight shipment is probably
a dead heat.

Bob in Las Vegas

> >   This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
> > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the
> Airport X-Ray scanner.
Jean-David Beyer - 27 Apr 2005 12:23 GMT
> If home is in the Washington DC area, don't mail it home.  Because of the
> anthrax episode some years ago, mail to most DC post offices are x-rayed.
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>>You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the
>>Airport X-Ray scanner.

If there is a lab you trust near where you are exposing the film, you could
have it processed there.

If not, consider taking a changing bag and some liquid chemistry and
processing in your motel room at night.

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Rich Shepard - 29 Apr 2005 03:38 GMT
> If there is a lab you trust near where you are exposing the film, you could
> have it processed there.

 No, they won't develop it the way I would.

> If not, consider taking a changing bag and some liquid chemistry and
> processing in your motel room at night.

 That's also not an option.

 I'll just mail it back.

Thanks,

Rich
Gregory Blank - 27 Apr 2005 12:40 GMT
>  DHL is
> the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments of radioactive
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> with rad material becomes a possibility.  Still, that confines the
> possibility to only that part of the trip outside the DHL cities.

 Do you really think any currier is going to accept radioactive
materials that are outwardly radioactive? One would logically think
people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick"  would be making sure
they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

James Robinson - 27 Apr 2005 13:25 GMT
> >  DHL is the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments
> > of radioactive material, which means your film wouldn't be near
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick"  would be making sure
> they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things.

The courier companies do handle radioactive materials, properly
packaged. They are declared as hazardous.  

When shipping film, I recall that on the shipping documents, you can ask
that it not be placed near radioactive material, and it will be handled
accordingly.  The courier services have procedures and appropriate
labels for the packages.
xyzzy - 28 Apr 2005 06:30 GMT
>   Do you really think any currier is going to accept radioactive
> materials that are outwardly radioactive? One would logically think
> people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick"  would be making sure
> they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things.

Every overnight carrier but DHL routinely carries shipments of radioactive
materials.  These shipments require specially designed containers and LOTS
of paperwork, but the reality is that the dose rate emanating from these
shipments can be significant to film if close enough.  The package doesn't
have to leak for radiation to emanate from the container.

The use of radioactive materials as tracers in nuclear medicine procedures
has become so common (my stress test used Technicium-99m, my bone scan used
Thallium-201) that the odds are that the FedEx/UPS/Airborne/motor carrier
truck next to you at the traffic light has a shipment on it.  These
radioisotopes are very short-lived (that's why they are used for the tests)
and have to be replaced at every nuclear medicine clinic everywhere in the
coountry just about every day.  That's 21st century medicine, folks.

While these shipments are commonplace, they only present a problem to
radiation-sensitive material (can anyone think of any?) in close proximity
to the rad material shipment.

The worst case scenario is a shipment on Thursday that doesn't get delivered
Friday and therefore sits in the carrier's warehouse over weekend next to a
rad shipment.  Most carriers now segregate the rad shipments to a specific
section of the warehouse, not to protect my film but to control exposure of
warehouse employees.  Many allow the shipper to identify a shipment as
radiation sensitive with the promise to keep that shipment away from rad
materials, but I know of quite few cases where that didn't seem to happen,
including shipments of my own.

My lab ships radiation-sensitive materials to various places mostly in the
US but some in Europe and the Pacific 30-40 times a year.  These go by
overnight carrier where the kind of x-ray used for passenger aircraft are
not used.  We measure radiation exposure in about a half dozen shipments a
year, the most recent being last week.  However, just because we can measure
it doesn't mean it's harmful.  The levels we've detected wouldn't fog film.
But I know others in my profession who have honest-to-Pete horror stories
about some of their shipments being irradiated in transit.  It's rare that a
significant exposure happens, but it happens.

Having said all that (anyone still reading?), I bring my film home with me
on the plane.  Never put it in your checked luggage - the CT scan will most
definately ruin it.  But I've never seen a visible effect from the gate
security x-ray machines.

Bob in Las Vegas
Gregory Blank - 29 Apr 2005 13:28 GMT
<Snip>

> Having said all that (anyone still reading?), I bring my film home with me
> on the plane.  Never put it in your checked luggage - the CT scan will most
> definately ruin it.  But I've never seen a visible effect from the gate
> security x-ray machines.
>
> Bob in Las Vegas

Actually very interesting, Thanks.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Rich Shepard - 29 Apr 2005 03:35 GMT
> I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing
> this for years.

 I'll probably get the baggie and keep it with my computer case.

> You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the Airport
> X-Ray scanner.

 Thanks. This is what I'll do.

Rich
Gregory Blank - 29 Apr 2005 13:29 GMT
> > I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing
> > this for years.

I have heard thats the best way to get your film confiscated or xrayed.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Ron Gans - 27 Apr 2005 20:02 GMT
Hi. I've travelled some time to time. I carry both unexposed and
exposed film (usually now 4x5). What I do I tell the TSA people that I
have film and not to put them through the xray. They can use a wand on
the film packages in place of xrays. Some people have reported problems
with this, but I never have had any. The TSA people have been more than
polite with me. I bring many boxes of unexposed film in a bag and tell
them to feel free to open one if they want (they never have). Just have
to make sure they don't open up the black plastic wrapper.

Using a lead lined bag would probably only make them stop the xray scan
and remove the film anyway.

RON
> This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rich
Javi L - 28 Apr 2005 21:35 GMT
I´ve sometimes thought that if I´d travel with 120 film I would take the
film with me -if it´s not too much- instead of leaving it to pass through
the X-ray machine.

120 film has no metal so the will let you pass through the metal detector.

>   This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rich
Mad Shutter-bug - 07 May 2005 14:33 GMT
>I´ve sometimes thought that if I´d travel with 120 film I would take the
>film with me -if it´s not too much- instead of leaving it to pass through
>the X-ray machine.
>
>120 film has no metal so the will let you pass through the metal detector.

This proves not to be the case. It will depend greatly on the
sensitivity level of the magnetic detector one must pass through when
going through inspection. I've gone through some with 120 film still
in the sealed foil packet and no alarm; I've gone through others with
120 film not in the sealed packet and the alarm sounded.

It all depends on the level of sensitivity. Some locations will have
higher sensitivity settings than others.

Mad Shutter-bug
is located generally in North Central Florida with camera in hand
James Robinson - 29 Apr 2005 04:53 GMT
>   This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
> film with me (but not pack it in the stored baggage). I don't recall reading
> anything about doing the same with exposed, but undeveloped film. Any ideas?

If the film is below about ISO 800, don't worry about it when packed in
carry-on baggage.  I have carried film through perhaps a dozen xray
scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically
use low speed film.

>   Would a viable option be to purchase one of them thar new-fangled
> protective bags and mail the exposed film home?

I've never used one.
Rich Shepard - 04 May 2005 21:32 GMT
> If the film is below about ISO 800, don't worry about it when packed in
> carry-on baggage.  I have carried film through perhaps a dozen xray
> scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically
> use low speed film.
 
 Thanks, James.

 All my film is rated by the manufacturer at ISO 25-200. Perhaps I'll just
put it in the computer bag.

Rich
Mad Shutter-bug - 07 May 2005 14:38 GMT
>>   This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and
>> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically
>use low speed film.

Once the film is exposed to light, the sensitivity to radiation
changes because the chemical balances in the emulsion change. Even
low-speed film may be more sensitive to the x-ray radiation at that
point. Additionally, sensitivity to x-ray radiation in film is similar
to that in living organisms in that greater exposure increases the
probability of problems (in the case of film, fogging).

I agree with you that any film with an ISO equal to or greater than
800 should always be hand-inspected. So should infra-red film if one
ever carries that. Fortunately, apparently so does the TSA in the USA.
It may take some convincing to get them to inspect slower speed film,
but I've often simply told them I "pushed" the film to the higher
speed, so it will be sensitive.
Mad Shutter-bug

is located generally in North Central Florida with camera in hand
 
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