Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005
Traveling With Exposed Film
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Rich Shepard - 27 Apr 2005 02:32 GMT This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed film with me (but not pack it in the stored baggage). I don't recall reading anything about doing the same with exposed, but undeveloped film. Any ideas?
Would a viable option be to purchase one of them thar new-fangled protective bags and mail the exposed film home?
TIA,
Rich
Korbin Dallas - 27 Apr 2005 05:42 GMT > This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Rich I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing this for years.
You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the Airport X-Ray scanner.
 Signature Korbin Dallas The name was changed to protect the guilty.
xyzzy - 27 Apr 2005 06:27 GMT If home is in the Washington DC area, don't mail it home. Because of the anthrax episode some years ago, mail to most DC post offices are x-rayed. Mail to one specific post office is "sanitized" - irradiated to high enough doses to kill any bacteria present. In that case, the dose will be so high that the plastic cassette will be warped. The film won't even fit a developing tank.
Published data from Kodak says film isn't measurably more sensitive to x-ray fogging after exposure than before exposure, but there are an awful lot of folks who believe otherwise.
If you aren't confident of the safety of the airport x-ray machines, ship it home to yourself. The less time in transit, the less opportunity for exposure to radioactive material in shipment, so overnight is best. DHL is the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments of radioactive material, which means your film wouldn't be near someone else's rad material. But that only applies to the cities served directly by DHL - if the pickup or destination is in a city not directly served by DHL, they subcontract that part to other carriers, and travelling in the same vehicle with rad material becomes a possibility. Still, that confines the possibility to only that part of the trip outside the DHL cities.
Ultimately, if you want certainty about radiation exposure, you need to drive (but that just changes the risk to another subject area). Otherwise, there is some risk, and the best you can do is minimize the opportunities for fogging. Personnaly, my own estimate is that the risk from gate security x-rays machines and exposure during overnight shipment is probably a dead heat.
Bob in Las Vegas
> > This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and > > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the > Airport X-Ray scanner. Jean-David Beyer - 27 Apr 2005 12:23 GMT > If home is in the Washington DC area, don't mail it home. Because of the > anthrax episode some years ago, mail to most DC post offices are x-rayed. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >>You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the >>Airport X-Ray scanner. If there is a lab you trust near where you are exposing the film, you could have it processed there.
If not, consider taking a changing bag and some liquid chemistry and processing in your motel room at night.
 Signature .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 07:20:00 up 3 days, 57 min, 3 users, load average: 4.15, 4.16, 4.07
Rich Shepard - 29 Apr 2005 03:38 GMT > If there is a lab you trust near where you are exposing the film, you could > have it processed there. No, they won't develop it the way I would.
> If not, consider taking a changing bag and some liquid chemistry and > processing in your motel room at night. That's also not an option.
I'll just mail it back.
Thanks,
Rich
Gregory Blank - 27 Apr 2005 12:40 GMT > DHL is > the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments of radioactive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with rad material becomes a possibility. Still, that confines the > possibility to only that part of the trip outside the DHL cities. Do you really think any currier is going to accept radioactive materials that are outwardly radioactive? One would logically think people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick" would be making sure they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
James Robinson - 27 Apr 2005 13:25 GMT > > DHL is the only overnight carrier that doesn't accept shipments > > of radioactive material, which means your film wouldn't be near [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick" would be making sure > they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things. The courier companies do handle radioactive materials, properly packaged. They are declared as hazardous.
When shipping film, I recall that on the shipping documents, you can ask that it not be placed near radioactive material, and it will be handled accordingly. The courier services have procedures and appropriate labels for the packages.
xyzzy - 28 Apr 2005 06:30 GMT > Do you really think any currier is going to accept radioactive > materials that are outwardly radioactive? One would logically think > people doing the shipping "unless seriously sick" would be making sure > they don't leak since you "do" have to declare such things. Every overnight carrier but DHL routinely carries shipments of radioactive materials. These shipments require specially designed containers and LOTS of paperwork, but the reality is that the dose rate emanating from these shipments can be significant to film if close enough. The package doesn't have to leak for radiation to emanate from the container.
The use of radioactive materials as tracers in nuclear medicine procedures has become so common (my stress test used Technicium-99m, my bone scan used Thallium-201) that the odds are that the FedEx/UPS/Airborne/motor carrier truck next to you at the traffic light has a shipment on it. These radioisotopes are very short-lived (that's why they are used for the tests) and have to be replaced at every nuclear medicine clinic everywhere in the coountry just about every day. That's 21st century medicine, folks.
While these shipments are commonplace, they only present a problem to radiation-sensitive material (can anyone think of any?) in close proximity to the rad material shipment.
The worst case scenario is a shipment on Thursday that doesn't get delivered Friday and therefore sits in the carrier's warehouse over weekend next to a rad shipment. Most carriers now segregate the rad shipments to a specific section of the warehouse, not to protect my film but to control exposure of warehouse employees. Many allow the shipper to identify a shipment as radiation sensitive with the promise to keep that shipment away from rad materials, but I know of quite few cases where that didn't seem to happen, including shipments of my own.
My lab ships radiation-sensitive materials to various places mostly in the US but some in Europe and the Pacific 30-40 times a year. These go by overnight carrier where the kind of x-ray used for passenger aircraft are not used. We measure radiation exposure in about a half dozen shipments a year, the most recent being last week. However, just because we can measure it doesn't mean it's harmful. The levels we've detected wouldn't fog film. But I know others in my profession who have honest-to-Pete horror stories about some of their shipments being irradiated in transit. It's rare that a significant exposure happens, but it happens.
Having said all that (anyone still reading?), I bring my film home with me on the plane. Never put it in your checked luggage - the CT scan will most definately ruin it. But I've never seen a visible effect from the gate security x-ray machines.
Bob in Las Vegas
Gregory Blank - 29 Apr 2005 13:28 GMT <Snip>
> Having said all that (anyone still reading?), I bring my film home with me > on the plane. Never put it in your checked luggage - the CT scan will most > definately ruin it. But I've never seen a visible effect from the gate > security x-ray machines. > > Bob in Las Vegas Actually very interesting, Thanks.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Rich Shepard - 29 Apr 2005 03:35 GMT > I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing > this for years. I'll probably get the baggie and keep it with my computer case.
> You can always mail the exposed film home, thats one way around the Airport > X-Ray scanner. Thanks. This is what I'll do.
Rich
Gregory Blank - 29 Apr 2005 13:29 GMT > > I always carry my film in an X-Ray bag inside my camera bag, been doing > > this for years. I have heard thats the best way to get your film confiscated or xrayed.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Ron Gans - 27 Apr 2005 20:02 GMT Hi. I've travelled some time to time. I carry both unexposed and exposed film (usually now 4x5). What I do I tell the TSA people that I have film and not to put them through the xray. They can use a wand on the film packages in place of xrays. Some people have reported problems with this, but I never have had any. The TSA people have been more than polite with me. I bring many boxes of unexposed film in a bag and tell them to feel free to open one if they want (they never have). Just have to make sure they don't open up the black plastic wrapper.
Using a lead lined bag would probably only make them stop the xray scan and remove the film anyway.
RON
> This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Rich Javi L - 28 Apr 2005 21:35 GMT I´ve sometimes thought that if I´d travel with 120 film I would take the film with me -if it´s not too much- instead of leaving it to pass through the X-ray machine.
120 film has no metal so the will let you pass through the metal detector.
> This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Rich Mad Shutter-bug - 07 May 2005 14:33 GMT >I´ve sometimes thought that if I´d travel with 120 film I would take the >film with me -if it´s not too much- instead of leaving it to pass through >the X-ray machine. > >120 film has no metal so the will let you pass through the metal detector. This proves not to be the case. It will depend greatly on the sensitivity level of the magnetic detector one must pass through when going through inspection. I've gone through some with 120 film still in the sealed foil packet and no alarm; I've gone through others with 120 film not in the sealed packet and the alarm sounded.
It all depends on the level of sensitivity. Some locations will have higher sensitivity settings than others.
Mad Shutter-bug is located generally in North Central Florida with camera in hand
James Robinson - 29 Apr 2005 04:53 GMT > This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and > some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed > film with me (but not pack it in the stored baggage). I don't recall reading > anything about doing the same with exposed, but undeveloped film. Any ideas? If the film is below about ISO 800, don't worry about it when packed in carry-on baggage. I have carried film through perhaps a dozen xray scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically use low speed film.
> Would a viable option be to purchase one of them thar new-fangled > protective bags and mail the exposed film home? I've never used one.
Rich Shepard - 04 May 2005 21:32 GMT > If the film is below about ISO 800, don't worry about it when packed in > carry-on baggage. I have carried film through perhaps a dozen xray > scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically > use low speed film. Thanks, James.
All my film is rated by the manufacturer at ISO 25-200. Perhaps I'll just put it in the computer bag.
Rich
Mad Shutter-bug - 07 May 2005 14:38 GMT >> This summer I will be flying across the country and will bring my TLR and >> some monochrome film along. On the way, I know that I can carry the unexposed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >scanners on some trips, and have never seen any problems. I typically >use low speed film. Once the film is exposed to light, the sensitivity to radiation changes because the chemical balances in the emulsion change. Even low-speed film may be more sensitive to the x-ray radiation at that point. Additionally, sensitivity to x-ray radiation in film is similar to that in living organisms in that greater exposure increases the probability of problems (in the case of film, fogging).
I agree with you that any film with an ISO equal to or greater than 800 should always be hand-inspected. So should infra-red film if one ever carries that. Fortunately, apparently so does the TSA in the USA. It may take some convincing to get them to inspect slower speed film, but I've often simply told them I "pushed" the film to the higher speed, so it will be sensitive. Mad Shutter-bug
is located generally in North Central Florida with camera in hand
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