Hi,
Relative novice here setting up a darkroom. Got a used enlarger that says
Beseler 23CII Dichro. Based on info found online, it seems that this must
be a 23CII-XL Dichro, although I did not find the "XL" designation. Anyway,
I have ordered a manual from KHB
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29985&item=388017795
0), but in the mean time I wonder if anybody can tell be what might be wrong
or that I might be doing wrong if I am getting poor contrast prints.
Contact prints look fine and I don't have any problem when I use the
enlarger at the college lab. Anything that needs to be done special because
this is a color enlarger and I am doing black and white? Oh, by the way,
the blue filter does not seem to do anything (no visual blue tint), although
the others appear to work.
Thanks in advance for any help.
GD
Pieter Litchfield - 24 Apr 2005 19:57 GMT
You will be able to control the contrast using the color filters with
Variable Contrast paper. The trick is trying to find the filter settings
for that enlarger and for each VC paper you use. Try the paper
manufacturers websites.
I don't know what you mean by "poor contrast" - high? low? But the problem
is in the filter settings.
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> GD
Goof Dude - 24 Apr 2005 20:37 GMT
Thanks!
Ilford does indeed have a helpful document on contrast control. Although it
does not specifically addresses my enlarger, it should be useful with the
filter settings. Will digest and experiment. By the way, it was low
contrast I meant.
> You will be able to control the contrast using the color filters with
> Variable Contrast paper. The trick is trying to find the filter settings
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > Anyway,
> > I have ordered a manual from KHB
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29985&item=388017795
> > 0), but in the mean time I wonder if anybody can tell be what might be
> > wrong
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > GD
Pieter Litchfield - 24 Apr 2005 21:06 GMT
Just looked at the Ilford site. It appears they give settings for only the
Y(ellow) and M(agenta) filters, no Cyan. I suspect it is dialed out of the
solution.
The Kodak site had some info relating to using Polycontrast IV RC paper with
a Bessler enlarger. There contast factors went from using 160Y for a grade
of 0/-1 to 180M for 5+. No Cyan involved. Here's the link:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/g4037/g4037.jhtml?i
d=0.1.16.14.30.48.14.4&lc=en#light%20source
> Thanks!
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>> >
>> > GD
Nick Zentena - 24 Apr 2005 20:04 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the blue filter does not seem to do anything (no visual blue tint), although
> the others appear to work.
Blue? Do you mean Cyan? Should be Yellow,Magenta and Cyan. Unless it's an
additive head. Then you'd have Red,Blue and Green. I'm going to bet it's
subtractive and uses Yellow,Magenta and Cyan. With no filters in the path
you should be getting around a grade 2. If you want harder add more Magenta.
If you want softer add more Yellow. Odds are your paper either came with a
little sheet describing filter settings or you can download it from paper
company website. It'll likely give you the choice of two colour filters
which are supposed to be speed matched or single colour settings that won't
be speed matched.
Nick
Goof Dude - 24 Apr 2005 20:42 GMT
Thanks, Yes, you are right; it must be cyan. Does it make sense that I
can't see cyan on a white piece of paper if I try to turn it on? Had
already tried using magenta, but will experiment more, with help from the
Ilford manual, as PL suggested. Also this is an old enlarger that was
sitting around a while; I may have a dust problem going on inside that's
causing or contributing to the problem. Starting to suspect that my problem
is more than just contrast.
GD
> > Hi,
> >
> > Relative novice here setting up a darkroom. Got a used enlarger that says
> > Beseler 23CII Dichro. Based on info found online, it seems that this must
> > be a 23CII-XL Dichro, although I did not find the "XL" designation. Anyway,
> > I have ordered a manual from KHB
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29985&item=388017795
> > 0), but in the mean time I wonder if anybody can tell be what might be wrong
> > or that I might be doing wrong if I am getting poor contrast prints.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Nick
Rod Smith - 24 Apr 2005 22:04 GMT
> Relative novice here setting up a darkroom. Got a used enlarger that says
> Beseler 23CII Dichro.
...
> I am getting poor contrast prints.
> Contact prints look fine and I don't have any problem when I use the
> enlarger at the college lab.
There are a lot of factors that can affect the contrast of a print, and
it's not clear how many of those are controlled in your comparison. For
instance, are you using the same brand and type of paper? Ditto for your
developer, your developer temperature, and your development time? Are you
comparing prints made from the same negatives? Even the lenses on the
enlargers might have an effect on contrast.
I'd first recommend controlling as many of these factors as you can. (You
can probably even swap in your own lens for the one on the school's
enlarger for test purposes.) Once you've done that, be aware that diffuser
enlargers (like the one you've got) often produce prints with lower
contrast than do condenser enlargers. I've no idea if that's what your
school's got, but it might be, and that difference alone could account for
the effect you're seeing. I don't know offhand how much of an effect the
light source color would have, but it might have some effect, too, at
least on variable contrast (VC) papers.
Assuming you're using VC paper, you should be able to increase contrast by
adding magenta filtration, but this will require increasing exposure.
Without a manual, you'll need to guesstimate the amount of increase,
though; you may just need to do a lot of experimenting on a print-by-print
basis. If you're using graded paper, you'll need to switch to a higher
grade to get more contrast.

Signature
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
pgg - 24 Apr 2005 23:14 GMT
Crank the Magenta up to 150 and make a print. How is the contrast?
Take off the lens and shine a lens through it. Have a look...do you see
lots of haze (is it fogged)? This can kill contrast.
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> GD
Craig Schroeder - 25 Apr 2005 22:53 GMT
I was thinking the same thing.... I helped get an old school darkroom
reset-up and even though the equipment was high grade (good German
optics, 4X5 enlargers, etc) our prints were consistently flat. It
turned out to be the flare in the lenses from fog. It wasn't evident
with a quick look and I was surprised at the dramatic effect a small
amount of fogging had on the performance.
>Crank the Magenta up to 150 and make a print. How is the contrast?
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>
>> GD
Craig Schroeder
craig nospam craigschroeder com
-Eschew Obfuscation-
Goof Dude - 27 Apr 2005 03:29 GMT
Thanks to all for helpful suggestions. After help from the good professor
at the college, it appears that the problem was a fogged lens. Any advice
on cleaning? Somehow, the mess seems to be on the inside of the lens and
seems to need more than a wipe on both sides.
Thanks again!
GD
> Hi,
>
> Relative novice here setting up a darkroom. Got a used enlarger that says
> Beseler 23CII Dichro. Based on info found online, it seems that this must
> be a 23CII-XL Dichro, although I did not find the "XL" designation. Anyway,
> I have ordered a manual from KHB
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29985&item=388017795
> 0), but in the mean time I wonder if anybody can tell be what might be wrong
> or that I might be doing wrong if I am getting poor contrast prints.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> GD
jjs - 27 Apr 2005 03:42 GMT
> Thanks to all for helpful suggestions. After help from the good professor
> at the college, it appears that the problem was a fogged lens. Any advice
> on cleaning? Somehow, the mess seems to be on the inside of the lens and
> seems to need more than a wipe on both sides.
Don't take the lens. Move on and get a good one.
--
Another "good professor"
Nicholas O. Lindan - 27 Apr 2005 05:19 GMT
> "Goof Dude" <goofdude@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > the problem was a fogged lens. Any advice
> > on cleaning? Somehow, the mess seems to be on the inside of the lens and
> > seems to need more than a wipe on both sides.
You will need to take the lens apart. If you are mechanically inclined
it is no big deal (except for a few lenses, where it is a big deal).
The normal method is to remove the retaining ring from the front (or rear)
of the lens. A home-made spanner wrench can be made by grinding 'tits'
on a small piece of sheet steel or using a filed down throw-away
steel vernier caliper (don't spend > $5).
> Don't take the lens. Move on and get a good one.
If you buy it, don't pay much for the lens. If you already bought
it the point is mute.
Mmmph. If it was me I would try to fix the present lens. Nothing
to lose, and it may work fine. It is possible to get slightly crazy
about lenses - like audiophiles go nuts over tube amplifiers.
To tell the truth any 4-element enlarging lens will work wonderfully.
If it is a 6-element then by all means fix it or get it fixed.
Goof Dude - 27 Apr 2005 06:42 GMT
Thanks! Like the plan to tinker with current lens while checking out
possible replacements.
Cheers,
GD
> > "Goof Dude" <goofdude@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> To tell the truth any 4-element enlarging lens will work wonderfully.
> If it is a 6-element then by all means fix it or get it fixed.
James Morrison - 28 Apr 2005 08:08 GMT
The Dichro head has nothing to do with the enlarger's being 23Cll or XL.
23C is the name of the enlarger, the "11" is the version and XL means that
the column raises higher than the standard model. The Dichro head is on of
several that can be used on the enlarger and comes with its own instruction
manual. The 23C manual won't show you how to use the color head. I
bought a 23C XL new in 1977 and used the standard condenser head (which
has color filter drawers for printing color if you want to!) until just
recently when I found a Zone VI cold light head and timer (thanks eBay) to
try on it. The 23Cs are built like tanks- easy to change heads and align,
and will no doubt last at least 500 years longer than any digital printer
on the market! Many people use VC paper with the color head with excellent
results and with all the used color heads coming on the market– the once
high cost of a color head is not much of an issue anymore. One word of
caution though on the very nice Beseler/Minolta 45A color head- Beseler
has run out of their inventory of replacement flash tubes and the maker
hasn't made them for about 15 years.