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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / April 2005Anyone Heard the Omega D5V-XL Enlarger?
A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does anyone have any ideal about this product? Can it use 50mm lens? Can it use Rodenstock ? - narke > A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did > not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - > narke No problem using a Rodenstock 50mm as long as you have the proper board. You would have a problem if the enlarger has the lens turret and you have an Apo Rodagon.  SignatureTo reply no_ HPMarketing Corp. > A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did > not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does > anyone have any ideal about this product? Can it use 50mm lens? Can > it use Rodenstock ? http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/ Just click around. XL will mean an extra long column. At least normally. Nick > A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did > not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - > narke Omega has been around since before WWII. Check out these websites. http://www.classic-enlargers.com/ http://www.omegasatter.com/v2/products/displaycategory.cfm?CatID=384 SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did >not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does >anyone have any ideal about this product? Can it use 50mm lens? Can >it use Rodenstock ? I've got a D5-XL. I think the "V" refers to the variable condensor head. The XL is the tall chassis. I use Rodenstock lenses on mine without problems. Bob from HP Marketing is correct, the 50mm won't work with the 3 lens turret. My 50mm Rodenstock works fine without the turret, just a flat lens board and mount. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > I've got a D5-XL. I think the "V" refers to the variable condensor > head. The XL is the tall chassis. I use Rodenstock lenses on mine > without problems. Bob from HP Marketing is correct, the 50mm won't > work with the 3 lens turret. My 50mm Rodenstock works fine without > the turret, just a flat lens board and mount. Yah some lenses have too much flange distance,...to rotate the turret or focus when on it. That used to bum people out all the time, and they would get rather mad, after buying new lenses for their new enlargers. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 I think I can not get the point, since I have merely little experience with enlarger, so I do not well know what are turret, lens borad and lend mount. You might laught at me :( > I think I can not get the point, since I have merely little experience > with enlarger, so I do not well know what are turret, lens borad and > lend mount. You might laught at me :( I can describe, but if you email mail me through my website: www.gregblankphoto.com I'll send you a drawing I made back when I worked at Omega specific for the purpose of explanation. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Gregory, an e-mail is sending to you. thanks. - narke I've used the triple turret in several labs I worked in and had no problems with 50mm lens. Usually the were ElNikkor but I've also used a Rodenstock APO 50mm. About 20 or 30 years ago they came out. I have mounted my share of enlarger lenses and have never found any of the usual ones that will not readily mount in a D5. Turret or not. But I am more than willing to learn anything. Tell me whaic 50mm you want to mount? FWIW The D5 is very similar to a D6 and the D6 came out before the D5. And there was a D3 and D4. > About 20 or 30 years ago they came out. > I have mounted my share of enlarger lenses and have never found any of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > FWIW The D5 is very similar to a D6 and the D6 came out before the D5. > And there was a D3 and D4. I can tell you Bob at least one the New Nikon 50mm does not work work with a turret. There's at least one Rodagon that does not either. Been there done that.... a hundred times, they may mount but they sure don't focus or turn on the turret... one or the other its a problem. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >I can tell you Bob at least one the New Nikon 50mm does not work work >with a turret. There's at least one Rodagon that does not either. Been >there done that.... a hundred times, they may mount but they sure don't >focus or turn on the turret... one or the other its a problem. My 50mm 2.8 Rodagon won't work in the turret. With a flat mounting plate the turret won't rotate or focus. With the extended plate it'll rotate but not focus. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > My 50mm 2.8 Rodagon won't work in the turret. With a flat mounting plate the turret won't rotate or focus. With the extended plate it'll rotate but not focus. What enlarger you mean? - narke The D-5 and D-6 can mount individual lenses in conventional lens boards which are then changed out as you switch formats, the enlargers also featured an adapter that allowed three lenses to mount on a wheel (like on an old movie camera) you just rotated the wheel to put the proper lens into position for printing. Some people feel the turret does not hold the lenses in good alignment for sharp printing, and there are a few shorter focal length lenses (mostly 50mm and shorter) where the lens is so recessed into the barrel that the lens projects into the back of the turret preventing the turret from rotation. (Sort of like a broomstick thrust into the spokes of a motorcycle!) -- darkroommike ---------- > > My 50mm 2.8 Rodagon won't work in the turret. With a flat mounting > plate the turret won't rotate or focus. With the extended plate it'll [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > - > narke >> My 50mm 2.8 Rodagon won't work in the turret. With a flat mounting >plate the turret won't rotate or focus. With the extended plate it'll >rotate but not focus. > >What enlarger you mean? D5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bob AZ wrote, > Tell me whaic 50mm you want to mount? I plan to buy a Rodagon 50mm 2.8 lens > Bob AZ wrote, > >> Tell me whaic 50mm you want to mount? > > I plan to buy a Rodagon 50mm 2.8 lens The el-nikkor 50mm F2.8 works with the turret. The Rodagon 80mm does, too. Sorry I can't say about the Rodagon 50mm. (If you can wait for a deal the el-nikkor is okay. I would offer you mine because I don't use it anymore, but it has a hint of some kind of stuff in it. Fungus, I'll bet.) >A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL >Enlarger. I did [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > - > narke The D-5 is a current model an is the replacement for the D-2. What sort of price does the guy want for it? Does it come with any lenses? Does it have the variable condenser lamphouse or the Chromega color head? All have an effect on the value. XL means it has an Xtra-Long column. Of course, condition is everything. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com >A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did >not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does >anyone have any ideal about this product? Possibly a D2V head on a D5XL chassis. There was no D5V head that I know of. John - http://www.puresilver.org "Are you planning on accepting the new definition of photography?" - Frank "Just as soon as humanity accepts a new definition of the term humanity." - John >>A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL >>Enlarger. I did [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John - http://www.puresilver.org The variable focal length head is standard on the D-6 and D-5. Since the fixed condensers were discontinued by the time this enlarger came out there is no special designation for the variable head. All of the come with it unless equipped with the color head. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > The variable focal length head is standard on the D-6 and D-5. Since the fixed condensers were discontinued by the time this enlarger came out there is no special designation for the variable head. All of the come with it unless equipped with the color head. 1) the seller said, that's a color print. So I guess it was equiped with a dichroic head (color head). right? 2) I found a page about D5V-XL: http://www.photographers1.com/SaleImagePages/D5V-XL.html with information above, any more ideal? thanks! - narke >2) I found a page about D5V-XL: >http://www.photographers1.com/SaleImagePages/D5V-XL.html > >with information above, any more ideal? thanks! Try: http://www.puresilver.org/pdf/equipment/enlargers/omega/ome_d3d5.pdf John - http://www.puresilver.org "Are you planning on accepting the new definition of photography?" - Frank "Just as soon as humanity accepts a new definition of the term humanity." - John > > The variable focal length head is standard on the D-6 and > D-5. Since the fixed condensers were discontinued by the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > - > narke It sounds like it has the dichroic color head but I would verify this with the seller. The color head works fine for B&W. The Omega head can get pretty much the full range of contrast with variable contrast papers, at least according the info in the Kodak instruction sheets for their papers. Since the color head delivers diffuse light to the film B&W should be developed to the appropriate contrast for diffusion printing. Kodak charts are written for this. The only disadvantage of the color head is that its more bulky than the condenser head, not a big deal. Since this is a currently made model you should be able to get full information about it. http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/ Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > > The variable focal length head is standard on the D-6 and > D-5. Since the fixed condensers were discontinued by the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > - > narke It sounds like it has the dichroic color head but I would verify this with the seller. The color head works fine for B&W. The Omega head can get pretty much the full range of contrast with variable contrast papers, at least according the info in the Kodak instruction sheets for their papers. Since the color head delivers diffuse light to the film B&W should be developed to the appropriate contrast for diffusion printing. Kodak charts are written for this. The only disadvantage of the color head is that its more bulky than the condenser head, not a big deal. Since this is a currently made model you should be able to get full information about it. http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/ Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > The variable focal length head is standard on the D-6 and >D-5. Since the fixed condensers were discontinued by the >time this enlarger came out there is no special designation >for the variable head. All of the come with it unless >equipped with the color head. Thanks Richard. That clears up why I had never heard of it. John - http://www.puresilver.org "Are you planning on accepting the new definition of photography?" - Frank "Just as soon as humanity accepts a new definition of the term humanity." - John There are two versions of the variable condenser head. One is the kind used on the D2v and D3v which has a third condenser which is placed on shelves in the box below the main condenser. The later one was a "zoom" condeser where the third condenser is positioned by a lever on the side of the condenser box. I can't tell for certain from the pictures of the D5 on the Omega-Satter site but it appears that it has the zoom type lamphouse. I believe it will match a somwhat wider range of focal length enlarging lenses than the box with fixed position shelves. It will also allow critical focusing of the condensers to match the focus of the enlarger. Just to clear confusion: Omega nomenclature: a=35mm, b=medium format (last bunch were 6x6), c=medium format, d=4x5, e=5x7, f=8x10 or 10x10 The is no D-1 AFIK but there is DII D-2, D-3, D-4, D-5 and D-6 the DII-4 share carriers, the II and 2 share lens boards and cones the 3 & 4 share cones and cams and lensboards and also share lensboards with the II and 2, the 5 and 6 are very similar and will use older carriers but have a new series of carries that are backwards compatible but that have a "stop-sign" shaped octagon on the bottom, different lensboard and a longer bellows eliminate the need for cones. There are also a couple of "mavericks" the D5500 and the Pro which I am not too familiar with. XL just means longer column=more magnification on baseboard. V is the variable condenser lamphouse adaptation, earlier models had different condenser sets for different formats, it was available as an add-on for older models. So a D-5VXL is a longer column D-5 with the Variable condenser lamphouse, actually a pretty common rig. -- darkroommike ---------- > A seller called me and said he got a used Omega D5V-XL Enlarger. I did > not heard it before, and after a google search, I found only D2V. Does [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - > narke Actually, there once was a D1. It was the first model Omega made c.1938. My memory (of advertising, I am not quite THAT old) is that it was a 35mm enlarger. It was followed about a year later by the D2, a 4x5 enlarger. These early Omegas did not have the girder type support now so familiar. Rather, they used a more conventional tubular column but the support for the lamphouse and chassis was a girder section. I thought there was a section on Omega history on the KB site but can't find it now so probably it was somewhere else. The familiar DII came out around 1940 and was bought in huge numbers by the military and schools. Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Actually, there once was a D1. It was the first model Omega made > c.1938. My memory (of advertising, I am not quite THAT old) is that it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk@ix.netcom.com The original "D" was a has always been 4x5, there was an Omega "A" first one produced that was a 35mm. The original D looked like something from a Frankenstein movie. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 > The original "D" was and has always been 4x5, there was > an Omega "A"; first one produced and that was a 35mm. What about my Omega C, the 31/4 x 41/4?. JandC sell that size film. Anybody interested in a 31/4 x 41/4 enlarger? Dan yestoday, I went to see the enlarger. the seller ask about ttl $510.00 for the following items: 1, D5-XL Super Chromega Dichroic Enlarger 2, CHROMEGATROL (with build-in timer of x0.1 second) 3, 35mm Negative Carrier 4, 120 Negative Carrier 5, Lens mount, lens plates After check, I found it seemed work fine. And, it can mount a Rodagon 50mm lens no problem. Because I have merly little experience in enlarger, so I want to ask following questions: 1, What about the price? Is it worth? 2, What else should I check before I decide to buy? 3, I found after the power was turned off by the timer, the light of the bulb however was not immediately extinquished, it quenched in a gradual way and last about one second. Is it normal for a enlarger? Thanks in advance. - narke > yestoday, I went to see the enlarger. the seller ask about ttl $510.00 > for the following items: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 4, 120 Negative Carrier > 5, Lens mount, lens plates > 1, What about the price? Is it worth? I got the same setup, but with three lenses (50mm 2.8 El-Nikkor, 150mm Schneider Componon and 80mm Rodagon) plus three spare bulbs and three carriers - all for $150. > 2, What else should I check before I decide to buy? > 3, I found after the power was turned off by the timer, the light of > the bulb however was not immediately extinquished, it quenched in a > gradual way and last about one second. Is it normal for a enlarger? He might have the wrong bulb. Dunno. Mine doesn't behave that way. >I got the same setup, but with three lenses (50mm 2.8 El-Nikkor, 150mm >Schneider Componon and 80mm Rodagon) plus three spare bulbs and three >carriers - all for $150. I take it that someone went digital ? That's was a bargain of bargains. I paid around $1000 total for enlarger, Chromegatrol, 3 Omegaron lenses, 6 negative carriers and a lot of chemistry. John - http://www.puresilver.org "Are you planning on accepting the new definition of photography?" - Frank "Just as soon as humanity accepts a new definition of the term humanity." - John >After check, I found it seemed work fine. And, it can mount a Rodagon >50mm lens no problem. Because I have merly little experience in >enlarger, so I want to ask following questions: > >1, What about the price? Is it worth? Yep. A good purchase if in good condition. >2, What else should I check before I decide to buy? Check that all functions work smoothly. Rack the lens stage all the way out and look for cracks in the bellows. Ask if there was any parts services in the past 5~10 years. >3, I found after the power was turned off by the timer, the light of >the bulb however was not immediately extinquished, it quenched in a >gradual way and last about one second. Is it normal for a enlarger? Yep. Pretty high output bulbs that seem to glow a lot after being turned off. For this reason I've standardized on 15~20 second printing times. You may be able to find a lower output bulb that would work but I haven't bothered. John - http://www.puresilver.org "Are you planning on accepting the new definition of photography?" - Frank "Just as soon as humanity accepts a new definition of the term humanity." - John For the phenomena of bulb, JJS and John give different answers. What do I do? How do I make sure he did not use wrong bulb? JJS, $150 for all things ?!!!#@^^~* >For the phenomena of bulb, JJS and John give different answers. What >do I do? How do I make sure he did not use wrong bulb? See http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampELC.htm. Again, it's not that critical if you have a long enough exposure. The only time I thought it _may_ have been an issue was when printing 5X7's at around 5 seconds. JD - www.puresilver.org John wrote, > See http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampELC.htm. The two ELC lamps on the page are diffuser type lamps or condenser type lamps ? I think the 'D5V-XL Super Chromega Dichroic' use diffuser type lamp. > Again, it's not that critical if you have a long enough exposure. The only time I thought it _may_ have been an issue was when printing 5X7's at around 5 seconds. Consider the case that I would split a total 2n seconds exposure into units of each of 2 seconds exposure. In the case, I am afraid the gradually quench will be multipled by n times. So I want to get information from D5** users, does the lamp on their gear work as this gradually quench way? If so, I will be easy and go to shop. If not, can anyone draw me a clue that explains the phenomena I encounted, then I will decide if or not to buy. Thanks for your reply. - narke > [...] So I want to get > information from D5** users, does the lamp on their gear work as this > gradually quench way? No it does not. There is something wrong with the system you are looking at. J.Scheimpflug wrote, > No it does not. There is something wrong with the system you are looking at. Supposing there is really a problem, however, where the problem most likely come from? I believe there is no other causes except the lamp itself. Is my guess right? Next time I want to replace the lamp and check again ( the current lamp is a ELC 250W 24v), anyone know how to replace the lamp for the model? the seller does not know how to because the guy is a middleman. - narke God! I have to ask another question: In my yesterday post I said, the Enlarger can mount with 50mm Rodagon no problem. But I did make a mistake, becase the seller made mistake on lens boxer, so the lens I checked yesterday is really a 80mm Rodagon. Today I went to the shop and mounted the exactly 50mm Rodagon and found it really just does not focus! The seller answered that the 50mm lens is bad and let me get the 80mm Rodagon instead. Recalling those articles in the thread, I think the seller may be wrong. I remembered some guys said here that the 50mm did not work just becuse the turret, so this lead me to think: can I unmount the turrent and use the lens only with the plate? Can this solve the focusing problem? And, can this possible in the D5V color enlarger? >Today I went to the shop and mounted the exactly 50mm Rodagon and found >it really just does not focus! The seller answered that the 50mm lens [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >only with the plate? Can this solve the focusing problem? And, can >this possible in the D5V color enlarger? The back of the 50mm Rodagon extends quite a ways behind the threads. This means you have to use an extended lens mounting plate so the back of the lens will not hit the turret when it rotates. The thickness of the turret, plus the extended plate, are what keep the 50mm lens from focusing - it's too far from the negative. Omega makes a flat plate that replaces the turret. This plate will hold one lens and has screws on it like the turret does to hold the lens plate. This thinner plate, and the flat lens mounting plate, get the lens closer to the negative where it needs to be. Also, on the D5, behind the bellows, there is a locking lever or screw that lets you slide the bellows up & down. There's a scale on the right side to set this adjustment. The bellows must be pushed all the way up this slide mechanism & locked to get the 50mm to focus. This is what I did on my D5, and everything works fine. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I just checked my D-5 (non-XL version) with both my 50mm f2.8 El-Nikkor and 50mm f2.8 APO Rodagon-N on the turret. I have the enlarger mounted on a bench with drop leaves to that I can make really high magnification enlargements. The El-Nikkor is mounted per Omega's instructions, which means a retaining ring is screwed onto the lens, and the lens is mounted to a 421-056 lens plate (the one with the threads for Leica-style threads). The El-Nkkor will focus to at least 50 inches from the negative to the baseboard, and the spacer allows the turret to rotate to my other lenses. The APO Rodagon-N will focus to an even greater enlargement, but will not allow the turret to rotate. As others have suggested, the best solution in an amateur darkroom would be to have an extra slide-in lens board with the lens mounted to it. I have to actually slide the lens board in first and then mount a 28mm Componon to it, as the lens has to be mounted like a wide angle lens on some view cameras. To repeat, the 50mm f2.8 can be used with the turret (that is the turret will rotate with the lens on it and it will focus); no way can the 50mm f2.8 APO Rodagon-N allow the turret to rotate, but has no problem with focus. Too bad the manufactures never standardized the flange back focus on lenses, especially 50mm! Jon >>Today I went to the shop and mounted the exactly 50mm Rodagon and found >>it really just does not focus! The seller answered that the 50mm lens [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - J.Scheimpflug wrote, > No it does not. There is something wrong with the system you are looking at Supposing there is really a problem, however, where the problem most likely come from? I believe there is no other causes except the lamp itself. Is my guess right? Next time I want to replace the lamp and check again ( the current lamp is a ELC 250W 24v), anyone know how to replace the lamp for the model? the seller does not know how to because the guy is a middleman. - narke > J.Scheimpflug wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > likely come from? I believe there is no other causes except the lamp > itself. Is my guess right? I'm sorry, but I do not know. Someone with more knowledge of the timer/power supply might be able to tell if it's even possible for the supply to taper off. I doubt that it can. > I'm sorry, but I do not know. Someone with more knowledge of the timer/power supply might be able to tell if it's even possible for the supply to taper off. I doubt that it can. Oh, if true, that's a big deal ... >> J.Scheimpflug wrote, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >supply might be able to tell if it's even possible for the supply to taper >off. I doubt that it can. I think the light fading rather than cutting off abruptly is due to the filament of the bulb. With a high wattage bulb like the 250 watt in the color head, the filament takes a short amount of time to cool down & that's what we're seeing. I've noticed this effect on my D5; it seems to last for less than one second and causes no problems. It may add a fraction of a second to the exposure time, but doesn't affect print quality at all. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - David, Did you mean that light fading is normal on a color head with 250 watt lamp ? Does those guy who did not notice this phenomena are those who are using a b&w head with lower wattage? FYI: The lamp on the mechine is really 250 watt. - narke ... >Supposing there is really a problem, however, where the problem most >likely come from? I believe there is no other causes except the lamp >itself. Is my guess right? ... >narke apr1505 from Lloyd Erlick, I think the lamp is the cause of this effect. I wouldn't call it a problem, though. It's a characteristic of the system. You can easily compensate for it by including it in your exposures. It is just a matter of getting used to it. My enlarger uses the same lamp. I use a Durst L1200 enlarger with a Durst Multigraph light source. Durst takes a much more elaborate way of dealing with the lamp characteristic you are describing. The light source has a shutter that remains closed at the beginning of the exposure during lamp "up-glow" (Durst terminology!) and again closes at the end of the exposure before the lamp is shut off and begins "down-glow". Of course the shutter is an electro-mechanical device that will eventually fail and require repair... regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > ... > >Supposing there is really a problem, however, where the problem most [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > regards, > --le Assuming an enlarger without a shutter, such as the OP's Omega D5V-VL, wouldn't this "up-glow" and "down-glow" (cute terminology!) cause a color problem? As the lamp is coming up (or going down), wouldn't it go thru various shades of yellow/red until it gets to operating temp? With my Omega D2V (using a "household-style" lamp: PH112? with no noticeable up/down-glow), my exposures for 11x14 on Kodak Endura paper typically run 10sec +/-. If the glow lasts a second or more, that's possibly 10% or more of the exposure. Ken Hart > Assuming an enlarger without a shutter, such as the OP's Omega D5V-VL, wouldn't this "up-glow" and "down-glow" (cute terminology!) cause a color problem? As the lamp is coming up (or going down), wouldn't it go thru various shades of yellow/red until it gets to operating temp? With my Omega D2V (using a "household-style" lamp: PH112? with no noticeable up/down-glow), my exposures for 11x14 on Kodak Endura paper typically run 10sec +/-. If the glow lasts a second or more, that's possibly 10% or more of the exposure. Yes, that's what i am worry about. >> Assuming an enlarger without a shutter, such as the OP's Omega >D5V-VL, wouldn't this "up-glow" and "down-glow" (cute terminology!) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yes, that's what i am worry about. apr1605 from Lloyd Erlick, I believe this is an unnecessary concern. Working at a smaller aperture would extend the exposure to the point the percentage of overall energy reaching the paper from the combination of up- and down-glow would be small enough to be called insignificant. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > I believe this is an unnecessary concern. Working at a smaller aperture would extend the exposure to the point the percentage of overall energy reaching the paper from the combination of up- and down-glow would be small enough to be called insignificant. did you consider cases when need to split a whole exposure in to five or more splits? >> I believe this is an unnecessary concern. Working at a smaller >aperture would extend the exposure to the point the percentage of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >did you consider cases when need to split a whole exposure in to five >or more splits? apr1705 from Lloyd Erlick, A five exposure cumulative exposure would most likely not be ten seconds overall. When I do that sort of thing I do not want any one of the five segments to be as short as ten seconds. Therefore, for any given exposure or partial exposure, the ratio of "up- and down-glow" to the exposure itself remains insignificantly low. Even if it were significant, it would simply be part of the overall exposure, and therefore it would be taken into account by the process of doing test strips and test prints until one arrives at the 'correct' exposure. These problems-in-advance are kind of like discussing how to tie shoelaces. So much easier to put on the skates and see how it goes. No doubt your ankles will wobble for a while and you'll fall on the ice, but you'll be in a situation where your own intelligence will take over and make corrections over time. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > A five exposure cumulative exposure would most likely not be ten > seconds overall. [...] What Lloyd asserts is absolutely correct. Five, two-second exposures is not the same as a single 10-second exposure. _That's_ why the prudent printer does many test strips, including tests of the multiple-exposure areas - exposed in multiple steps. That said, I have no problems with my D5 and color head. Yet. :) But I would much rather have a condenser setup, and to that end I'm still looking. Finding a clean one is difficult. Oh - to the OP - just a reminder that there is a High/Low switch on the head. If your exposures are too long, check it out. Many short exposures do equal one equivalent long one, except when they don't. Test your own system. You will need a digital timer, if you are using a Gralab all bets are off. Use variable contrast paper with a 5+ filter. Set the aperture etc. so a 20 second exposure yields a mid grey with no negative. Do the the test on a single sheet of paper: cover half and make a 20 second exposure, cover the other half and make 20 two second ones. Develop, cut the center strip out and butt the two halves. My experience. o Incandescent light bulb: The two are the same. GE 212 (? or something) enlarger bulb, my own f-stop timer, Beseler 45, Ilford MC IV, 5+ polymax filter. o Aristo cold-light head warmed for 1/2 hour, original tube. As above, with a Besler digital timer. Nowhere close. Cold light systems with compensating timers should have no trouble. If a compensated timer system can't pass the test then the timer isn't doing it's job. If there is a problem it may be: 1) the photodiode has a different spectral response from the paper - there should be a cyan filter over it; 2) the system uses a CDS cell that has a long 'memory'; 3) the timer is bust/badly designed. Timers that compensate for a cold-light's dead time should do better than those that don't. Shuttered systems should also do well. Pulsed xenon is pretty linear (or it should be if the power supply is well designed). I have no experience with halogen light (slide projector bulb) systems. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ > Many short exposures do equal one equivalent long one, > except when they don't. Come on, Nicholas - it's a matter of physics. Perhaps we should qualify the case: multiple short exposures, for example 2 to 5 seconds each, not two 20-second exposures. > "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig.com> wrote > > Many short exposures do equal one equivalent long one, > > except when they don't. > Come on, Nicholas - it's a matter of physics. Perhaps we [who's "we"?] > should qualify the case: multiple short exposures, for example > 2 to 5 seconds each, not two 20-second exposures. Come on, John -- it's a matter of eyesight. Perhaps we should repeat the sentence: > make a 20 second exposure, cover the other > half and make 20 two second ones. And no, before you ask, "20 two second ones" should not be read as "a 22 second one". SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ > Come on, John -- it's a matter of eyesight. Perhaps we should repeat > the sentence: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And no, before you ask, "20 two second ones" should not be read > as "a 22 second one". Stop it already. I'm talking of multiple exposures one might make in burning. For example, ten 5 to 10 second exposures. You are being evasive, my friend. > "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig.com> wrote in message > > Come on, John -- it's a matter of eyesight. Perhaps we should repeat [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > burning. For example, ten 5 to 10 second exposures. You are being evasive, > my friend. Yeah, "ten 5-second exposures"-jjs, as in "twenty 2-second exposures"-nol? Dang fool: I am agreeing with you and you keep telling me I'm wrong. This is a new height in argument for argument's sake. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ Got answer from Omaga. Just FYI: --cut-- 1) No this is not normal. It may be a relay on the circuit board in the Chromegatrol. If the cover of the Chromegatrol is removed, between the two timer knobs on the board, there is a 1 inch square box connected to the board. This relay is mechanical and the contacts get stuck and cause the lamp not to turn off. This is connected to the board via 7 solder contacts. The replacement relay is $25.00 plus $10.00 for freight (our minimum charge). 2) To mount a Rodagon lens a 421056 lens disc is needed. This is a flat threaded mount that is used on the slide in mount or the three lens turret. When used on a turret, a lock ring may be needed between the lens and the disc (as a spacer) to give enough clearance for the lens to turn. This only applies if the rear element of the lens protrudes beyond the rear thread. -----Original Message----- From: Steven Woody [mailto:narke27@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:09 PM To: Bob Smrcina Subject: RE: Question about D5 Thanks for your reply. Q1: A used D5-XL Super Chromega Dichroic Enlarger which has a up/down glow phenomenon, that is the lamp will not cut off as soon as the power supply was cut off by the Chromegatrol, it will quench in a duration of about 1 to 2 seconds. Is it normal? Q2: Can the D5-XL Super Chromega Dichroic use Rodenstock Rodagon 50mm enlarger lens (with or without the lens turret)? I heard there are some problems with the lens respect to some models of D5 serials. --cut-- 1, i went to the store and replace the lamp, the up/down glow still exist, this make me believe that's not a problem of lamp. however, after read posts from all of you, i now believe that the difference will be easy to compensate when doing B&W. but, for color works, will the glow cause any color-cast problem? i ask this since i saw in the period of glow, the light looks red. 2, i noticed the chasis scale going up to 100cm, for a 80mm lens, what's the maximized print size on the baseboard can i get from 35mm negs? - narke - narke My friend, the enlarger is just plain overpriced, and besides I'm wondering if the power unit isn't bad as well. You can do very well for $500. Feel free to keep looking. On 4/17/2005 7:10 PM jjs spake thus: > My friend, the enlarger is just plain overpriced, and besides I'm wondering > if the power unit isn't bad as well. You can do very well for $500. Feel > free to keep looking. "Power unit bad"? Come, now: he was complaining about the afterglow of the bulb after it goes off. Perhaps you know of a "power unit" that can somehow reach into the filament and instantly quench it at power-off? The super-metaphysical model, perhaps? The Obiwan Kenobe model? Obviously this has nothing to do with any aspect of the enlarger. Just for kicks, does anyone know--or care to take an educated guess at--how significant this afterglow effect really is? I mean, what is the actual rate of decay of the light? How long does it take to reach a point where it is no longer contributing to the exposure? My (completely pulled out of my a.s) guess is that this "problem" is insignificant and can safely be ignored for all but the very shortest exposures (say, 1-2 seconds). I'll bet if you graphed the light output at turn-off, you'd see something like a downward hyperbolic curve where the light level quickly approaches zero. Signature"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon." - Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by the late Hunter S. Thompson > "Power unit bad"? Come, now: he was complaining about the afterglow of the bulb after it goes off. Perhaps you know of a "power unit" that can somehow reach into the filament and instantly quench it at power-off? The super-metaphysical model, perhaps? The Obiwan Kenobe model? your argument is reasonable, but how do you explain that some guy on the list owning the same mode does not see the down-glow? and after replace the lamp for the gear, the glowing keep not going away? on the other hand, in the duration of glowing, i noticed the color of light looks a little red, does this matter for color print in your opinion? thanks - narke On 4/17/2005 10:56 PM narke spake thus: >> "Power unit bad"? Come, now: he was complaining about the afterglow > of the bulb after it goes off. Perhaps you know of a "power unit" that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the list owning the same mode does not see the down-glow? and after > replace the lamp for the gear, the glowing keep not going away? It's subjective. All incandescent lamps have some afterglow; it's a matter of how long one perceives that glow to be. What may seem like no time at all may feel like an eternity to someone else. > on the other hand, in the duration of glowing, i noticed the color of > light looks a little red, does this matter for color print in your > opinion? Yes, of course, the color temperature changes as the bulb goes out. The question (the one I tried to address) is, how significant is this afterglow? My take on it is, not very. Remember that as the color goes red, it also gets very much dimmer. Signature"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon." - Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by the late Hunter S. Thompson >> "Power unit bad"? Come, now: he was complaining about the afterglow >of the bulb after it goes off. Perhaps you know of a "power unit" that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >light looks a little red, does this matter for color print in your >opinion? As I've said, mine exhibits the afterglow for less than 1 second. it does NOT affect either b&w or color prints in any way. When I first got the enlarger & noticed the afterglow, I was mildly concerned. But after making prints and seeing no effects of the afterglow I just ignore it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >apr1605 from Lloyd Erlick, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >regards, >--le As I stated earlier I never actually ran into a problem caused by this characteristic because I keep my times longer than 10 seconds. I usually target 15 seconds. The final effect is that the print (which is a very slow media anyway) does not shift colors to any significant degree as far as I can tell. And I've probably printed thousands more color prints than most. JD - www.puresilver.org >> ... >> >Supposing there is really a problem, however, where the problem most [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Ken Hart apr1605 from Lloyd Erlick, I agree there is at least the potential for a problem. But in fact, I don't think the length of time involved is really a second; it's barely perceptible if one watches for it in the dark. And for the largest fraction of the time involved, the energy emitted by the filament is very much reduced compared to its fully energized state. regards, --le Signature________________________________ Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto. voice: 416-686-0326 email: portrait@heylloyd.com net: www.heylloyd.com ________________________________ > Assuming an enlarger without a shutter, such as the OP's Omega > D5V-VL, wouldn't this "up-glow" and "down-glow" (cute terminology!) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Kodak Endura paper typically run 10sec +/-. If the glow lasts a > second or more, that's possibly 10% or more of the exposure. More like 1%, the spectrum heads into the red/IR real fast! Your eye can see it OK, but it makes very little difference to the exposure. Doing many cycles for dodging etc is another matter if your exposure is lots of short times. SignaturePaul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. > Also, on the D5, behind the bellows, there is a locking lever or screw that lets you slide the bellows up & down. There's a scale on the right side to set this adjustment. The bellows must be pushed all the way up this slide mechanism & locked to get the 50mm to focus. david, thanks for your information! today or tomorrow I will try again > Today I went to the shop and mounted the exactly 50mm Rodagon and found > it really just does not focus! Hold on, my friend.The enlarger has two bellows adjustments. You might have to change it from the current setting. > Hold on, my friend.The enlarger has two bellows adjustments. You might have to change it from the current setting. What you mean two bellows adjustments, my friends :-) - narke > > Hold on, my friend.The enlarger has two bellows adjustments. You > might have to change it from the current setting. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - > narke It only has one. It does however have two separate places to align the chassis. But no,... the D5XL has only one bellows adjustment knob. Then there also the focus knobs (Different animals) SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Assuming an Omega D Dichroic Colorhead that we are talking about - The bulb is removed by raising the top cover of the head and on the right is the bulb. There is a small lever sometimes to raise the bulb from its location. If no lever the bulb slides out from the socket and another put in its' place. Becareful to line it up right in the socket. Wear light weight cotton gloves to be sure there are no finger marks anywhere. Some lamp afterglow is usual Certainly not more than a second or so. Is there a regulator on the rear of the power supply? >From reading the posts here one might gather there are two bulbs. Not so unless somebody has a sleeper that I have never seen. Might happen. Take care Bob AZ Middleman? That explain why he is asking so much, he needs to make his money...keep looking. -- darkroommike ---------- > J.Scheimpflug wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > - > narke The Super Dichroic illumination SYSTEM is diffusion, the lamp shines into a mixing box and then through a diffusion plate that illuminates the negative. -- darkroommike ---------- > John wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > - > narke > yestoday, I went to see the enlarger. the seller ask about ttl $510.00 > for the following items: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > - > narke Its not a terrible asking price, IMO, but I'd still see if he is willing to bargain. These things are not in huge demand, so you may have the edge in that respect. At least you probably dont need to rush. I think I paid 400-500 for my D6 with color head and regulator about 5 years ago. You might call midwest photo and ask them what its worth retail. 8-10 years ago that would be a good price but today, thanks to digital, you can probably find a cheaper one. Was that price for a new or used? How can I recognize wether the bulb is a orignial one? For the gradually quench phenomeno, I am afraid the buld is not the original bulb. If any guy hear owns a D5* enlarger, can you tell me is there any title marked on the bulb which may help me to do the check. Thanks. Now, after negatiation, the seller added a Rodagon 50mm f2.8 lens to the list while keep the ttl price no change. How about the price? - narke TWO years ago that was a great price, now, without lenses, it sounds high. I suspect he sold off the lenses and more shippable items on eBay and now wants to unload what he has left. -- darkroommike ---------- > yestoday, I went to see the enlarger. the seller ask about ttl $510.00 > for the following items: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > - > narke > I thought there was a section on Omega history on the KB site but > can't find it now so probably it was somewhere else. The familiar DII > came out around 1940 and was bought in huge numbers by the military and > schools. http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/ I don't think it's 100% complete. Nick |
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