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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / May 2005Some Questions about D76
In the past I have always used Ilford LC29, purely because it is the only developer that is stocked by the only local shop that sells this type of stuff. Anyway, they've now stopped stocking developer, so I will be buying developer online. The place I am looking at online (www.vanbar.com.au) doesn't stock LC29, so I've had a look at what they stock, and it appears that D76 appears to offer the best price, as well as having the most readily accessible development times for a variety of films. So, onto my questions... Am I correct that it ships as a powder? If I buy the kit to make 1 US Gallon, do I have to mix the whole lot in one hit, or is it ok to mix up small amounts at a time? I have a paterson developing tank, normally develop 1 roll of 36 exp 35mm at a time, and it needs 300ml, so I'd probably mix that amount if I could. Sometimes I will shoot 5 rolls in a week, other weeks I may go 2 or 3 weeks without doing any. Even if I mix up the whole gallon, would you suggest using 300ml at a time one shot, or would you suggest reusing developer? (it is certainly economical enough for one shot). Would you recommend mixing it 1:1 or using it stock? From what I can gather, it still delivers the same capacity at 1:1, but allows longer developing time. Is there any appreciable difference in negs developed stock compared to 1:1, assuming both are developed the appropriate time. Ilford ID11 is apparently the same as D76 - is there any of the above that you would have different recommendations for when using ID11? Thanks in advance for any help people can provide. > Am I correct that it ships as a powder? Yes. > If I buy the kit to make 1 US Gallon, do I have to mix the whole lot in one > hit, or is it ok to mix up small amounts at a time? I have a paterson > developing tank, normally develop 1 roll of 36 exp 35mm at a time, and it > needs 300ml, so I'd probably mix that amount if I could. Sometimes I will > shoot 5 rolls in a week, other weeks I may go 2 or 3 weeks without doing > any. Mix the whole volume (the "stock solution") and fill several brown glass bottles to the brim. It should keep at least 6 month this way. > Even if I mix up the whole gallon, would you suggest using 300ml at a time > one shot, or would you suggest reusing developer? (it is certainly > economical enough for one shot). If you want consistent results and your usage isn't regular, forget reusing developer. It is _much_ better to use fresh developer (even if its a few month old) from a closed glass bottle to develop your films. There are some photographers who fill small bottles with enough solution for one film and store it this way. > Would you recommend mixing it 1:1 or using it stock? From what I can gather, > it still delivers the same capacity at 1:1, but allows longer developing > time. Is there any appreciable difference in negs developed stock compared > to 1:1, assuming both are developed the appropriate time. > Ilford ID11 is apparently the same as D76 - is there any of the above that > you would have different recommendations for when using ID11? There isn't a real big difference between stock and 1+1. There are people who claim that using stock solution gives a little finer grain and 1+1 is sharper, but in fact you won't be able to see a difference when shown two enlargements made with both methods. It depends on your method of working if using stock solution makes sense... if you use rotation, you could think about it. If you use a standard drum with intermittend motion, it is much more economical to use 1+1 (or 1+3). You should always use at least 100ml stock solution per film (that is a 135/36 or a 120). This will give 200ml solution 1+1 or 400ml 1+3 _per film_! Do not overtax the developer, this is the cheapest part of the whole game. One ruined film buys the next package of developer... Martin <snip> > Mix the whole volume (the "stock solution") and fill several brown glass > bottles to the brim. It should keep at least 6 month this way. <snip> > If you want consistent results and your usage isn't regular, forget > reusing developer. It is _much_ better to use fresh developer (even if > its a few month old) from a closed glass bottle to develop your films. > There are some photographers who fill small bottles with enough solution > for one film and store it this way. I think that's what I'll do - I will soon be able to get hold of a number of 300ml glass bottles, so I'll fill them, then each bottle will do one roll of film. At the price of the 3.8L kit, it will work out at under 50c per roll, which is dirt cheap. The thing that through me off was in Kodak's tech sheet about it, all the talk about replenishment etc. It is cheap enough for me to use single shot, so that's what I'll do. > There isn't a real big difference between stock and 1+1. There are > people who claim that using stock solution gives a little finer grain [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > film_! Do not overtax the developer, this is the cheapest part of the > whole game. One ruined film buys the next package of developer... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if stock will give a short developing time(<5mins), I'd probably be better to use it 1:1 to get a longer time - longer time means less proportional variation in things like pouring time, and hence higher consistency - right? > Martin > I will soon be able to get hold of a number of > 300ml glass bottles, so I'll fill them, then each bottle will do one roll of > film. If you use it undiluted, yes (give or take a bit depending on your tank's capacity). If you use it diluted, a 300ml bottle will hold enough to do two rolls of film. (You should dilute the developer just before you use it; don't store it diluted.) > Correct me if I'm wrong, but if stock will give a short developing > time(<5mins), I'd probably be better to use it 1:1 to get a longer time - > longer time means less proportional variation in things like pouring time, > and hence higher consistency - right? Yes. Most photographers like developing times of ~10 minutes for those reasons; that's a good compromise between time standing around turning a cylinder upside down and accuracy in controlling the start and end times. In another post, you wrote: > One of my reasons for thinking D76 would be my best bet, is that there are > published developing times for a wide variety of films, including pushed > times also. while there is quite a bit of data for rodinal, it doesn't > appear to be as widespread as the data for d76. What's most important is the films you use on a regular basis. As to sources of developing times, the most comprehensive I know of is the Massive Dev Chart: http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html Just skimming its D-76 and Rodinal sections, the latter seems ALMOST as comprehensive as the former, but not quite. I'm not advocating the use of Rodinal (I'm pretty new at this and have never used it myself), but there does seem to be data for it for a good range of films. Personally, I'd base my decision on other factors (availability, price, powder vs. liquid, likely keeping time, general reputation, grain, acutance, effective film speed, etc.).  SignatureRod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking > I've had a look at what they stock, and it appears > that D76 appears to offer the best price, as well as having the most readily > accessible development times for a variety of films. First off, I'm still pretty new to B&W processing, but what I've done, I've done with D76, and I asked these same questions myself, so.... I believe that D76 is the most popular B&W film developer in the world, so you'll certainly find lots of information on it. Other developers are also pretty popular, and each has its proponents. Also, be aware that D76 is made (sometimes under other names) by several companies. You might be able to save some money by buying a non-Kodak D76 -- but if it's Joe's Home-Brew Film Developer and Shoelace Company that makes it, I'd be a bit concerned about quality control. ;-) You can even find formulas for D76 and mix it up yourself. Note that the big manufacturers often tweak the formula a bit to improve shelf life or whatnot. When computing price, be sure to figure in dilutions. For instance, undiluted Rodinal is pretty expensive compared to a stock solution of D76, but Rodinal is typically diluted 1:50 or thereabouts, whereas D76 is usually diluted between 1:1 to 1:3. > Am I correct that it ships as a powder? Yes, at least for the Kodak variety. If you're looking for a developer that ships as a liquid, HC110 is often recommended as a liquid developer that produces results similar to D76. (There's a current thread on it in this newsgroup.) Agfa Rodinal is another popular liquid developer, but it's loved by some and hated by others. (Rodinal tends to enhance both sharpness and grain.) The site you referenced sells a lot of Paterson stuff, and I've seen good things written about Paterson FX39, but I get the impression that it's not very popular. Ilford Ilfosol-S is in this category, too. I've used none of these, though; I'm just throwing them out as liquid developers I've seen discussed and that the site you mentioned stocks. > If I buy the kit to make 1 US Gallon, do I have to mix the whole lot in one > hit, or is it ok to mix up small amounts at a time? The most common advice is to mix it all up at once. The problem with mixing smaller batches is that the bag contains several different chemicals, which can separate out during shipment. If you mix just part of the bag, you might not be getting the right proportion of various chemicals. OTOH, I've heard from people who do mix it up a bit at a time and say it works. This seems to be much more common (and less likely to pose problems) when you mix up your own developer. If you must mix up part of a commercial bag, shake it up well before mixing. Given that the stock solution has an official shelf life of 6 months in properly sealed bottles, I'd recommend mixing it all up at once. The worst-case scenario is that you'll only use part of it, but it's pretty inexpensive stuff, so even if half of it goes to waste, it's not THAT big of a problem. > Even if I mix up the whole gallon, would you suggest using 300ml at a time > one shot, or would you suggest reusing developer? (it is certainly > economical enough for one shot). > Would you recommend mixing it 1:1 or using it stock? My understanding is that undiluted D76 can be re-used, but few people do it because it requires extending development time for each re-use and makes the results less consistent. Instead, most people dilute it 1:1 or greater and use the diluted working solution one-shot. > Ilford ID11 is apparently the same as D76 - is there any of the above that > you would have different recommendations for when using ID11? My understanding is that Ilford ID11 ships in two bags rather than one, so the mixing procedure is slightly different, but once it's mixed, it's functionally identical to Kodak D76. (There may be some minor differences in the tweaks each company gives its formulation, but nothing worth worrying about, AFAIK.) I'd buy whichever costs less. SignatureRod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking RE:Graham Fountain Gigantic selection of chemistry, and , and, ... ; Vanbar. A concentrate such as Rodinal or one of the many others they carry is likely your best bet for longevity and economy. Dan > RE:Graham Fountain > > Gigantic selection of chemistry, and , and, ... ; Vanbar. > A concentrate such as Rodinal or one of the many others they > carry is likely your best bet for longevity and economy. Dan One of my reasons for thinking D76 would be my best bet, is that there are published developing times for a wide variety of films, including pushed times also. while there is quite a bit of data for rodinal, it doesn't appear to be as widespread as the data for d76. > In the past I have always used Ilford LC29, purely because it is the only > developer that is stocked by the only local shop that sells this type of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > you would have different recommendations for when using ID11? > Thanks in advance for any help people can provide. lots of questions - i've been working with d76 ( and sometimes hc110) for about 20 years. i've found it to be highly stable and reliable when used freshly mixed 1:3 as well as storing 1:1 for a few weeks. rod had some very useful information, so i will not add too much to it. IMHO, if you do not shoot lots and lots of film on a regular basis, d76 is a good safe bet. in the age of film photographers becoming dinosaurs (i am one of them), it is one of the few b/w film developers available at a decent price without shipping liquids or using more complex, less stable chemistry. i will re-emphasize one thing - shake up the powder very well and let it sit for 20 mins or so, then mix up what you need - i mix up 1/2 gallon at a time. i have used patterson reels. i prefer stainless steel (old school to the death, i guess). same idea, different mechanism. i usually develop 1-2 reels at a time (medium format), then none for a few weeks at least. if you are this kind of photographer, then d76 is the way to go. i dilute 1:3 because it gives me more control over processing times, but if you are impatient, or under deadline, then 1:1 at shorter times works quite well, if you don't need super-fine grain. another note - do not re-use it unless it's within 48 hrs or so of mix unless it is in a really airtight bottle preferably with less than 10% air. it takes longer and longer to develop and it's les predictable. it's not good after it sits for more than 10 days or so... this refers to stock solutions. good luck- -christina ID11 and D76 are identical. This formula has been used for many years and always rates as one of the best. The 1 to 1 solution offers greater sharpness and better contrast control. In addition, your development is consistant because the developer is always the same - fresh. Unfortunately, the development times are long - especially for people used to Rodinal or HC110. The life of your gallon of deveoper can be several months if you are able to keep air contact to a minimum. I've used D76 with replenisher doing 4x5 work for shorter times, but for smaller formats, you can't beat the quality of D76 1 to 1. > In the past I have always used Ilford LC29, purely because it is the only > developer that is stocked by the only local shop that sells this type of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > you would have different recommendations for when using ID11? > Thanks in advance for any help people can provide. >ID11 and D76 are identical. This formula has been used for many years and >always rates as one of the best. To the best of my knowledge they are not identical but rather work identically. JD - www.puresilver.org |
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