Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / April 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

A Foolish Question About D-76 1:1

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
narke - 28 Mar 2005 09:02 GMT
If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution, will I get a
D-76 stock or d-76 1:1:

water(52C) 750cc
Metol 2.0grams
Sodium sulfite, dessic, 100grams
Hydroquinone, 5grams
Borax(decahydrate) 2.0grams
cold water to make 1 litre

BTW: for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is better, stock
or 1:1?

-
narke
Keith Tapscott - 28 Mar 2005 13:33 GMT
> If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution, will I get a
> D-76 stock or d-76 1:1:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> -
> narke

The formula that you have given is for the much published original formula
for Kodak D-76 which is also used by Ilford for their ID11 developer,
personally I would make Kodak formula D-76d which is chemically closer to
the commercially packaged Kodak developer. This formula maintains a more
stable pH value when the developer is stored for several months. The Kodak
developer is similar to D-76d, except that Borax-decahydrate is replaced
with Borax-pentahydrate and Boric acid-crystalline is replaced with Boric
anhydride which may be for packaging convenience rather than for technical
reasons.

Either formula should keep well for around six months although it may be
worth while to buy a pH meter if you make the original formula.
I have checked out some technical data from the Ilford and Kodak websites
respectively, and the pH values that they give for their developers are as
follows:
Ilford ID11: the pH value at 20 degrees Celsius is 8.60-8.70 with a specific
gravity of 1.095 and ID11R replenisher has a pH of 8.93-9.03 and a specific
gravity of 1.100.
For Kodak D-76 (Kodak publication CIS-61): Stock(Full strength developer) at
25 degrees Celsius, has a pH of 8.5 +/- 0.05 with a specific gravity of
1.003
+/- 0.003.
For developing the T-MAX films, I would use a 1:1 dilution.
Seeing as you only shoot around two rolls of film per month, I would suggest
that you make up 500ml of stock solution at a time, as this would allow you
to use a working strength 1:1 dilution of 500ml for each roll of film that
you process.
Lloyd Erlick - 28 Mar 2005 15:43 GMT
...
for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is
better, stock
>or 1:1?
>
>-
>narke
...

mar2805 from Lloyd Erlick,

I use T-Max 400 (TMY) quite a bit. I prefer diluting
D76 1+1 for developing it.

But really it's a matter of preference based on desired
results. I make portraits, and I like the shadow detail
and the tonal rendition I get from TMY when I develop
it the way I do.

There is a lot more to it than just the dilution of the
developer, of course. It's not really right to simply
tell someone the name of the developer and how I dilute
it. Also, the way the film is exposed is crucial.

TMY is officially rated at an exposure index (EI) of
400. Personally, I do not like the results I get if I
enter 400 into my light meter. I rate TMY at 200. I
think TMY is a superb 200 film that pushes very well to
400. Sometimes we hear the claim that TMY is tolerant
of under-exposure, but I think this only means that it
is a great 200 film and a good 400 film. It has a much
better tolerance of over-exposure. Treating it as if
it's an EI 100 film is not that great an error,
although enlarger exposures can get pretty long.

I also use a pre-soak ("pre-wet", looks funny if it's
spelled "prewet") when I develop TMY. This means I
stand my film in a tank of plain tap water for two to
three minutes before immersing it in the developer.
Many people do not do this, and in fact there might
even be some controversy about it!

I make my developer with distilled water. Many workers
use plain tap water, and Kodak advises us to use tap
water when mixing their prepared developers, such as
D76. I like to know there are not going to be any
surprises. Tap water can have unknown substances in it.
For me it's just a matter of belt plus suspenders.
Also, I tend to develop film in batches of ten rolls (I
mainly use 120 format). One processing error can be
very costly for me. And we all know Murphy's Law would
see to it that the damaged film would be from work with
clients...

I like the diluted form of the developer because I
prefer a slightly long development time. My personality
is such that I detest rushing. In fact, I find
developing film calming and therapeutic. I even do it
in total darkness, in open tanks. Also, longer
development removes the risk of uneven development. And
there is the matter of cost, too; diluted developer
works out cheaper per roll. There may be a better tonal
response, too, but I don't think I can scientifically
make this assertion.

Having prefaced my development regime with all this,
here it is:

-Presoak the film in plain tap water at 21 degrees C,
two to three minutes.

-D76 (I use the commercially prepared version), diluted
1+1 in distilled water, at 21 degrees C, for twelve
minutes.

I have found that this method has worked well enough to
get me close to the 'best' development for any film I
have ever used. As a starting point it has always put
me close enough to fine tune with ease.

The rest of my process is equally weirdo. I do not use
acid in my darkroom, so my stop bath is four changes of
plain tap water at 21C. After fixing and washing, I
hang my rolls up to dry in a dust free place. Before
walking away from it, I sluice down both sides of each
roll with distilled water. A plastic container with a
nipple type closure (as sold with soft drinks) is
perfect for dispensing distilled water. I never use
hardener on my film, and I never squeegee the hanging
rolls. I also never use wetting agent.

I'm sorry I can't comment on the formula. For some
reason I like to mix my own print developer but not my
film developer. However, I have found there is a lot of
virtue in mixing a developer from dry chemicals
directly to a working solution. I do this when I make
prints, and it is very convenient. I particularly like
having no storage of bottles of made-up concentrate.
And bulk quantities of basic chemicals make the unit
cost very low.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

John - 28 Mar 2005 16:14 GMT
>BTW: for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is better, stock
>or 1:1?

    Ah ! I see. For some reason my newsreader is having difficulty
this morning.

    I suggest the 1:1.

Regards,

  John S. Douglas, Photographer -  http://www.puresilver.org
Richard Knoppow - 29 Mar 2005 00:26 GMT
> If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution,
> will I get a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> -
> narke

  Its a matter of the time. D-76 has been my standard
developer for years, I use it both straight and 1:1. There
is little if any difference in the negatives. However,
developing times for the full strength developer are
somewhat short for many films so I prefer it 1:1. I like
times on the order of 8 to 10 minutes for small tank
developing in order to get better uniformity.
  I use packaged D-76 because its convenient. The packaged
developer is the buffered version I posted in an earlier
reply. This has the advantage of not changing activity with
time which the formula above will do.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Tom Ellliott - 29 Mar 2005 21:52 GMT
I used to use D-76 1:1 at 65 F. Then I was told the hydroquinone activity is
lowered at that low temp so I switched to D:23 which is metol based. For my
condensor D-2 I aim for a thin flat neg which alows me to push TRI-X to
about 1,500 ASA with minimum grain and great 16x20 B&W prints. Low Temp,
minimum agatation gives me what I want. Started with Ultra Fin in Germany
while in the USAF and when I got the states in 1961 went the D-23 route for
Ultra Fin was not always available. Just my way of working. Now have gone
digitial with the Nikons D-70 and am scaning old negs on an Epson 2450 with
great results. I have been doing side by side and in some cases the scans
and prints on Epson 1280 are better for I can bring out details not possible
or VERY difficult in the wet darkroom. Only go into the dark room with my
grandson who is learning to print and do digital school.
Yours,
Tom

> > If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution,
> > will I get a
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> reply. This has the advantage of not changing activity with
> time which the formula above will do.
Richard Knoppow - 31 Mar 2005 06:25 GMT
>I used to use D-76 1:1 at 65 F. Then I was told the
>hydroquinone activity is
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Yours,
> Tom

  Hydroquinone in a normal developer becomes inactive at
around 50F so Dektol and similar developer should not be
used at very low temperatures. However 65F is well above
this. In fact, until around 1940 65F was the standard
processing temperature. The ability to harden emulsions
better in manufacture resulted in raising the temperature to
68F since that reduced processing time significantly.
  In D-76 the Hydroquinone is not active as a developing
because the pH is too low. However, it is active as a
regenerating agent for the Metol so the life of the
developer is longer than it would be with Metol only. D-23
has an excess of Metol to extend its life. The activity of
the developer does not go up with the increased Metol
concentration after a certain level has been reached. In
D-76 2 grams of Metol per liter is enough, in D-23 and D-25
7.5 grams per liter are used. D-76 will work without the
hydroquinone if developing times are very slightly extended
but its capacity is much less.
  Hydroquinone in very high pH developers, like
lithographic developers, does not become inactive at low
temperatures. In fact, developer for super low temperature
processing are much like very high contrast developers of
the D-8  sort with Sodium Hydroxide as the accelerator.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Dana H. Myers - 29 Mar 2005 10:36 GMT
> If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution, will I get a
> D-76 stock or d-76 1:1:

[...]

> BTW: for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is better, stock
> or 1:1?

1:1, of course.

Dana
Keith Tapscott - 29 Mar 2005 16:38 GMT
> If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution, will I get a
> D-76 stock or d-76 1:1:

You get a stock (Full strength solution). To make a 1:1 dilution, you simply
take one part of the stock solution , and then add one equal part of water
just before you develop your film(s).

> water(52C) 750cc
> Metol 2.0grams
> Sodium sulfite, dessic, 100grams
> Hydroquinone, 5grams
> Borax(decahydrate) 2.0grams
> cold water to make 1 litre . (This is to make a stock solution).

> BTW: for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is better, stock
> or 1:1?

It is probably better to use the developer diluted 1:1 because the longer
developing times allow for closer control of contrast. The diluted developer
must be used once only and then discarded.
This gives you better processing consistency.

> -
> narke

The stock solution should last well for around six months.

O.K.?
narke - 30 Mar 2005 01:48 GMT
Thanks for all your replies!

-
narke
Frank Pittel - 31 Mar 2005 07:43 GMT
: If I use the following formula to make a D-76 solution, will I get a
: D-76 stock or d-76 1:1:

: water(52C) 750cc
: Metol 2.0grams
: Sodium sulfite, dessic, 100grams
: Hydroquinone, 5grams
: Borax(decahydrate) 2.0grams
: cold water to make 1 litre

: BTW: for developing T-Max 100 and T-Max 400, which one is better, stock
: or 1:1?

I like dilute developers and got good results with Tmax films with D76 at 1:1.
I would recommend that you look into using the Tmax developer. Dilute it 1:9
and process at 75F.

Signature

Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

Dana H. Myers - 31 Mar 2005 08:56 GMT
> I like dilute developers and got good results with Tmax films with D76 at 1:1.
> I would recommend that you look into using the Tmax developer. Dilute it 1:9
> and process at 75F.

I did exactly that - dilute T-Max developer 1:9 and process at 75F -
for some time and never grew to like the results.

IMHO, if you're not souping T-Max in D-76 1:1, you're souping T-Max
in Xtol 1+1.  But the liquid T-Max concentrate just doesn't seem
to bring out the best in those films; it enhances speed but the
overall image quality left me rather cold.

Dana
Frank Pittel - 31 Mar 2005 13:52 GMT
: > I like dilute developers and got good results with Tmax films with D76 at 1:1.
: > I would recommend that you look into using the Tmax developer. Dilute it 1:9
: > and process at 75F.

: I did exactly that - dilute T-Max developer 1:9 and process at 75F -
: for some time and never grew to like the results.

: IMHO, if you're not souping T-Max in D-76 1:1, you're souping T-Max
: in Xtol 1+1.  But the liquid T-Max concentrate just doesn't seem
: to bring out the best in those films; it enhances speed but the
: overall image quality left me rather cold.

I guess that why there are so many different types of developers. Of course
to borrow a line from Sarah Lee, nobody doesn't like D76. It's the standard
all other developers are judged against.
Signature


Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

Dana H. Myers - 31 Mar 2005 19:42 GMT
> I guess that why there are so many different types of developers. Of course
> to borrow a line from Sarah Lee, nobody doesn't like D76. It's the standard
> all other developers are judged against.

Yup.  What one person likes in a developer/film combination,
another person might hate, and this is further complicated to
some extent by differences in processing protocol (temperature,
agitation, tank size, water quality, so on).

Starting with D-76 at least gives a reference point.

Cheers,
Dana
jjs - 01 Apr 2005 01:42 GMT
>> I guess that why there are so many different types of developers. Of
>> course
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Starting with D-76 at least gives a reference point.

Duh. Photo 101.
Frank Pittel - 01 Apr 2005 01:50 GMT
: >> I guess that why there are so many different types of developers. Of
: >> course
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: >
: > Starting with D-76 at least gives a reference point.

: Duh. Photo 101.

Hmmm, I never had a photo 101. The classes at my local college went
100, 102. They skipped over 101. The only developer provided by the
school was and still is D76.

Signature

Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.