I'm sure I came across an article about a staining metol based developer.
The trick is NOT to bleach out the stain with an acid fix. I've now got my
supply of Formulary TF-4 in, but I've lost track of my reference. Possibly a
gainer article? Can anyone help?
-Lew
Richard Knoppow - 22 Mar 2005 15:42 GMT
> I'm sure I came across an article about a staining metol based developer.
> The trick is NOT to bleach out the stain with an acid fix. I've now got my
> supply of Formulary TF-4 in, but I've lost track of my reference. Possibly a
> gainer article? Can anyone help?
> -Lew
Metol is not a staining developer. Are you sure this is not a Pyro
and Metol developer, perhaps PMK (Pyro-Metol-Kodalk)? If so the formula
may be found at: http://www.jackspcs.com/pmk.htm
There is also an old Pyro and Metol developer, Kodak D-7
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
jo.sto@bigpond.com - 23 Mar 2005 00:37 GMT
I think I read of a staining hydroquinone developer from Gainer, if
that's any help. Microdol-X gives a bit of a brown tint to the neg if
the fixer is non-acidic.
Richard Knoppow - 26 Mar 2005 02:56 GMT
>I think I read of a staining hydroquinone developer from
>Gainer, if
> that's any help. Microdol-X gives a bit of a brown tint
> to the neg if
> the fixer is non-acidic.
Hydroquinone can leave a stain image and can also
differentially harden the gelatin in the right sort of
developer solution.
The brown coloration left by Microdol-X is not a stain
and does not depend on the type of fixer. It is due to the
very fine grain of the image. The fineness of the silver
grains determines their color. Extremely finely devided
silver (colloidal silver) is bright yellow. In fact, the
yellow filter layer in Kodachrome and some other color films
is colloidal silver and is removed during bleaching. Coarse
silver grains appear to be gray or blue-gray. The finer they
are the more they shift toward yellow. The grains from
Microdol-X are fine enough to have a brownish color by
reflected light.
The stain image left by Pyro or Pyrochatachol is a pigment
(not a dye) related to Humic acid, the material that causes
tree bark to be brown. It is very stable, probably more
stable than the silver image.

Signature
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Jordan W. - 23 Mar 2005 15:38 GMT
> I'm sure I came across an article about a staining metol based developer.
> The trick is NOT to bleach out the stain with an acid fix. I've now got my
> supply of Formulary TF-4 in, but I've lost track of my reference. Possibly a
> gainer article? Can anyone help?
> -Lew
Gainer came up with a staining phenidone-hydroquinone developer
using only these two agents and triethanolamine as an activator. I
haven't tried it but Nicholas Twist from New Zealand, who posts
here once in a while, uses it and loves it. The key is the absence
of sodium sulfite -- when it is present the stain is not formed and
instead you get your usual superadditive PQ-type developer.
Lew - 23 Mar 2005 20:32 GMT
Do you recall its name or a reference to the article in which it was
published?
Thanks.
-Lew
> Gainer came up with a staining phenidone-hydroquinone developer using only
> these two agents and triethanolamine as an activator. I haven't tried it
> but Nicholas Twist from New Zealand, who posts here once in a while, uses
> it and loves it. The key is the absence of sodium sulfite -- when it is
> present the stain is not formed and instead you get your usual
> superadditive PQ-type developer.
Wayne - 23 Mar 2005 23:10 GMT
I dont know if this is related to what you are talking about, but you
can find Patrick's email address there (if the link works, otherwise
just search this group on gainer stain)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.photo.darkroom/browse_frm/thread/214f426
49e817853/046595b650e75ecb?q=gainer+stain#046595b650e75ecb
Lew - 24 Mar 2005 06:08 GMT
This evidently refers to the article I read, but I can't find a reference to
the article itself.
-Lew
>I dont know if this is related to what you are talking about, but you
> can find Patrick's email address there (if the link works, otherwise
> just search this group on gainer stain)
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.photo.darkroom/browse_frm/thread/214f426
49e817853/046595b650e75ecb?q=gainer+stain#046595b650e75ecb
Wayne - 24 Mar 2005 14:16 GMT
I didnt read the whole thread but I saw Patrick say it would appear
something like "next month's Photo Techniques". shouldnt be hard to
figure out from there. I dont see the article listed on the PT website
but I would email them and ask them-or Patrick himself
There is a formula for a Gainer sulfite-free PQ/MQ developer here, I
dont know if its the one or not
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html
Lew - 24 Mar 2005 14:25 GMT
Well, we're on the right track anyway. My guess is that there's a reference
in Gainer somewhere that notices MQ, no sulfite + non-acidic fix = stain,
but where? I'll try emailing him.
Thanks.
-Lew
>I didnt read the whole thread but I saw Patrick say it would appear
> something like "next month's Photo Techniques". shouldnt be hard to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html
Jordan W. - 24 Mar 2005 15:30 GMT
> Well, we're on the right track anyway. My guess is that there's a reference
> in Gainer somewhere that notices MQ, no sulfite + non-acidic fix = stain,
> but where? I'll try emailing him.
> Thanks.
> -Lew
I just dug up the following from my e-mail archives. I don't think
Patrick or Nicholas will mind my posting it.
From Pat Gainer: "The PQGlycol that Nicholas [Twist] uses is 10%
hydroquinone in propylene glycol with 0.25 g phenidone for each 10
grams of hydroquinone. There are several activators you could use.
IIRC, he uses 1 tsp borax + 1 tsp sodium carbonate as activtor.
Dilute the glycol 1+50 and add the alkalis."
From an earlier e-mail from Pat: "Adding a little ascorbic acid to
the PQ-TEA helps. I think that, since PC doesn't need sulfite for
synergism, the PC acts as a catalyst to get the PQ going. Anyway,
it is a staining developer unless you add sulfite. Add 4 g/l to the
working solution and it's a pretty hot developer. My basic recipe
for this brew is 10 g hydroquinone, 1 g ascorbic or erythorbic
acid, 0.2 g phenidone in TEA to make 100 ml. Without sulfite, I use
it at 1+25 dilution for 9 minutes at 70 F. Add the sulfite and you
can use it 1+50 for 8 minutes at 70 F."
Jordan