Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2005
a bit of encouragement from Ilford
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Chris Ellinger - 11 Mar 2005 16:37 GMT http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150
bob - 11 Mar 2005 16:54 GMT > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 I like the bit about the glass plates.
Bob
dan.c.quinn@att.net - 11 Mar 2005 21:48 GMT > > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 > > I like the bit about the glass plates. Also from Kodak. Their new X-RAY films are now 800 speed. Perhaps we will be seeing more of the new technology, higher speed films hitting the market. You'd think Agfa would be first, they hold the patents. Dan
Nicholas O. Lindan - 12 Mar 2005 03:08 GMT > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 in which
Phil Harris, spokesman for Ilford is quoted:
"Black-and-white has been declining by 5-7% per year, and last year it declined by 20-30%. I think next year it will be the same"
50-60% in two years - yikes, no wonder they cut the work force in half. They need to cut it in half again, quick.
"then the decline will flatten out as we reach the core market of fine art, student and specialist black-and-white photographers."
In my [too many] years at Booz-Allen I saw clients hanging many, many such graphs up on the wall. They are so common in sick companies that they are an inside joke: "Yeah, the CFO brought a hockey stick to the meeting".
Typically the company is going down hill at [some large number] /year for 2[or more] years, and the management projects that in the space of a month or so this graph will flatten out, and maybe go up at 25%/year. Today's date is invariably at the heel of the hockey stick. Sometimes the heel is scheduled for 'next year' if management has decided to show they are taking a 'long hard look at projections'.
This turn-around just -doesn't- happen. A company and market in decline have momentum and don't turn the corner on a dime. We are not talking the price of shares, we are talking about people: the owners, employees, managers, distributors, manufacturers' reps, retail outlets and finally the customers. Employees will be leaving at the rate of 9 a month if the decline is 2.5%/mo. Soon the people remaining are there because they are unemployable.
Ilford should be asking themselves 'can we be in the black with 20/10/5% of the business we have now?' If the answer is yes, they should immediately downsize to that projection and start showing profit. Get rid of all the employees the company would be stuck with if they depended on attrition.
"The current [product] list was [pared down] by the receivers for maximum efficiency, so we will reintroduce old [product lines]. For example, we are the only company in the world that can coat glass plates, so while it would not be a big part of our business, we want to consider it. We are committed to black-and-white."
Someone with a head on their shoulders did what was necessary to keep Ilford alive with a swift amputation and the present management, who bought the company from the receivers, are going to turn right round and re-introduce a slew of unprofitable products. Re-attach an already amputated gangrenous limbs, so to speak.
"We plan to be the last man standing in black-and-white imaging."
Wonderful: "We don't care if this is going to a be viable business or not, we will stand our ground." -- Charge of the Light Brigade -- There is nothing the British like better than a noble failure.
The management may as well take 'Roll on Death' as the company motto.
* * *
A company's commitment to a market is irrelevant. Only the customers' commitment counts.
If Ilford is to be saved, only _WE_ can do it.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Jan T - 12 Mar 2005 08:04 GMT wich only shows this kind of news has two interpretations: the optimistic and the pessimistic...
I stick to the first one; the more people turn their backs, the worse it wil get. And turning your back preventively could prove a regrettable choice. If I'm wrong, I can still swith over later (at far better conditions!).
Jan
| > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 | in which [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] | | If Ilford is to be saved, only _WE_ can do it. Nick Zentena - 12 Mar 2005 12:13 GMT > "The current [product] list was [pared down] by the > receivers for maximum efficiency, so we will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > unprofitable products. Re-attach an already amputated > gangrenous limbs, so to speak. Unprofitable under the old system. The normal thing with Chapter 11/insolvency/CCA [fill in your local form of protection] is that companies exit with greatly reduced debt. Renogiated employee and supplier contracts.
Nick
Jean-David Beyer - 12 Mar 2005 13:00 GMT >> "The current [product] list was [pared down] by the >> receivers for maximum efficiency, so we will [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 11/insolvency/CCA [fill in your local form of protection] is that companies > exit with greatly reduced debt. Renogiated employee and supplier contracts. Employees can negotiate down only so far: they cannot realistically go below the living wage, and most will not go below what they can get working at something else. Already, in USA, employees at places like WalMart are paid so little (US$8.50/hour) that they qualify for food-stamps and wellfare. I.e., the community is subsidizing those companies. For a two-hundred-employee Wal-Mart store, the government is spending $108,000 a year for children's health care; $125,000 a year in tax credits and deductions for low-income families; and $42,000 a year in housing assistance. A report estimates that a two-hundred-employee Wal-Mart store costs federal taxpayers $420,000 a year, or about $2,103 per Wal-Mart employee.
Similarly, suppliers of silver are unlikely to reduce their prices below what other users and hoarders of silver are willing to pay. Miners will not mine the stuff if it costs more to produce than what they can sell it for. Most silver is not mined directly. Silver and gold are typically byproducts of copper refining, so unless the price of copper goes up appreciably, silver will not become more plentiful.
 Signature .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642. /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939. /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org ^^-^^ 07:45:00 up 51 days, 16:02, 3 users, load average: 4.20, 4.21, 4.18
Nick Zentena - 12 Mar 2005 13:12 GMT > Employees can negotiate down only so far: they cannot realistically go > below the living wage, and most will not go below what they can get [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > byproducts of copper refining, so unless the price of copper goes up > appreciably, silver will not become more plentiful. None of that means Ilford didn't manage to get better deals. Changes in work rules? Changes in supplier agreements with regard to payment. Better volume discounts? Lower minimum orders. Quicker turn arounds. You don't need to lower wages/prices to make life easier on a company.
Nick
John Bartley - 12 Mar 2005 15:32 GMT > Most silver is not mined directly. Silver and gold are typically > byproducts of copper refining A serious question : is the above statement really accurate? I know that gold, silver and copper are found in the same areas, can be found in the same mines and can be separated during processing but didn't know that one was a by-product of processing the other. I did spend a couple of years as a contract gold miner in Northern Ontario and saw (a LOT) of gold without seeing copper or silver in the same two mines that I worked in.
It's a bit off topic I know, but I'm curious....
cheers
 Signature regards from ::
John Bartley 43 Norway Spruce Street Stittsville, Ontario Canada, K2S1P5
( If you slow down it takes longer - does that apply to life also?)
Nicholas O. Lindan - 12 Mar 2005 16:06 GMT > Jean-David Beyer wrote: > > Most silver is not mined directly. Silver and gold are typically > > byproducts of copper refining > A serious question : is the above statement really accurate? Yes for silver, IHNI for gold. I don't know about 'most'.
> I did spend a couple of years as a contract gold miner in Northern > Ontario and saw (a LOT) of gold without seeing copper or silver There was probably some copper and silver (and lead (and uranium (and palladium (and platinum (and mercury (and arsenic (and...))))))) in the gold. I don't know of anyone refining gold to get at the copper, though. TTBOMK gold mining goes after ore rich in gold and copper mining after ore rich in copper, sorta makes sense.
Gold is a _by product_ of copper mining. Silver also, but there may be enough silver in the copper ore to make it a viable source. The waste from copper refining is a cornucopia of metals one would rather stay away from.
The same is true of nickel, only more so.
And that's probably more than I know about the subject.
As usual: Google Knows.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Derek Gee - 13 Mar 2005 19:31 GMT > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 What's the deal with US subsidiary? Why is it still for sale? Who's going to distribute Ilford products in the US if not Ilford?
Derek
Nicholas O. Lindan - 13 Mar 2005 20:26 GMT > What's the deal with US subsidiary? Why is it still for sale? Who's going > to distribute Ilford products in the US if not Ilford? Distribute to who?
There aren't a whole lot of mom-and-pop stores any more, just big chains and big web/mail/phone retailers. These folks do their own distribution already. They deal with the manufacturer's rep, issue PO's to and get shipments [by the container] from the factory. What's left of the medium-size photo stores are accommodated either by B&H & Co. or via the rep's office and drop shipped merchandise from UK distribution.
Ilford's advertising (count the channels on one hand) transfers from the UK with no rewrite -- don't even have to worry about the occasional 'colour' in the ad copy now that they are strictly B&W.
Good move, I say.
Ilford has to think about _survival_ for the next 5 years. The business viewpoint gets pretty ruthless.
TTTH there are companies that got rich by taking an increasing share of declining market.
 Signature Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Gregory Blank - 14 Mar 2005 01:38 GMT
> Distribute to who? > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > TTTH there are companies that got rich by taking an increasing > share of declining market. Unique Photo is the largest distributer of Ilford Product in the USA, yes bigger than B&H.
 Signature LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
A.Lee - 13 Mar 2005 20:37 GMT > http://db.riskwaters.com/public/showPage.html?page=211150 There is no mention of the Cibachrome business there - does anyone know if that side has been bought? The Co. I work for buys a lot of paper from them. Ta Alan.
 Signature To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. http://www.dvatc.co.uk - Off-road cycling in the North Midlands.
|
|
|