: > : >I've been going to my normal haunts looking for Oriental Seagull
: > : >11x14 Fiber paper. They are all out of the stuff. Does anyone know if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
: > : Seeing that Calumet no longer has the FB listed, I'd say it's
: > : a good possibility that they are no longer importing into the US.
: I believe all US retail stock comes through Oriental
: USA. Freestyle just got a new shipment.
Thanks for the word on Freestyle getting a shipment. I just put in an
order for a couple of boxes.
: > ?? My primary source for the Oriental Seagull is Calumet and they still have
: > it listed on their website. they just show as beinging out of stock.
: Prices are better at Freestyle (freestylephoto.biz)
: Shipping is higher but still ends up a lower price.
: They have a complete stock.
Living in the Chicago area I tend to go to Calumet for a lot
of things even though I can get it cheaper else where. They have
the advantage of being close, having a good stock, reasonable prices
and when I can't go in person lightning fast delivery. I've put in
orders with them in the afternoon one day and have recieved it the next!!
: There have been some delays in stock availability but
: no one I've talked to says there is a supply problem.
: Oriental G is now called FG (for fiber?) and apparently
: Oriental has made some changes to their VC emulsions,
: though not to the graded Seagull.
The change in name makes some sense since they seem to have
added RC paper to their product line. I hope the changes are
minor. I've gotten very comfortable with their paper and I like
it. Those that know me know I don't take to change very well.
: If there was a known supply problem with Oriental I'd
: probably be trying the kentmere paper also available
: from freestyle
I may give the Kentmere paper a try. I'm also thinking of giving Berger
paper another try.

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Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT
> : > : >I've been going to my normal haunts looking for Oriental Seagull
> : > : >11x14 Fiber paper. They are all out of the stuff. Does anyone know if
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Thanks for the word on Freestyle getting a shipment. I just put in an
> order for a couple of boxes.
Freestyle's shipping is weird. They charge a minimum
$5, then $6 per $100 after the first $100 order. Most
other places charge by the weight (meaning shipping
is usually gets cheaper the more you order/buy dollar
wise. I've complained to Freestyle about this, since
by charging more for ordering more dollar wise they
discourage larger orders. So with Freestyle I typically
order only what I need rather than stocking up. But
even with bigger ticket items (16x20 Seagull @ $160)
I save over Calumet.
> : > ?? My primary source for the Oriental Seagull is Calumet and they still have
> : > it listed on their website. they just show as beinging out of stock.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> and when I can't go in person lightning fast delivery. I've put in
> orders with them in the afternoon one day and have recieved it the next!!
Calumet charges between $10-$23 more per box of Seagull
but with no shipping probably worth it.
> : There have been some delays in stock availability but
> : no one I've talked to says there is a supply problem.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> added RC paper to their product line. I hope the changes are
> minor.
The word is it's minor, but I don't use VC Oriental anyway...
> I've gotten very comfortable with their paper and I like
> it. Those that know me know I don't take to change very well.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> -------------------
> fwp@deepthought.com
Frank Pittel - 25 Feb 2005 16:33 GMT
: > : > : >I've been going to my normal haunts looking for Oriental Seagull
: > : > : >11x14 Fiber paper. They are all out of the stuff. Does anyone know if
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: > Thanks for the word on Freestyle getting a shipment. I just put in an
: > order for a couple of boxes.
: Freestyle's shipping is weird. They charge a minimum
: $5, then $6 per $100 after the first $100 order. Most
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: even with bigger ticket items (16x20 Seagull @ $160)
: I save over Calumet.
: > : > ?? My primary source for the Oriental Seagull is Calumet and they still have
: > : > it listed on their website. they just show as beinging out of stock.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: > and when I can't go in person lightning fast delivery. I've put in
: > orders with them in the afternoon one day and have recieved it the next!!
: Calumet charges between $10-$23 more per box of Seagull
: but with no shipping probably worth it.
: > : There have been some delays in stock availability but
: > : no one I've talked to says there is a supply problem.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: > added RC paper to their product line. I hope the changes are
: > minor.
: The word is it's minor, but I don't use VC Oriental anyway...
: > I've gotten very comfortable with their paper and I like
: > it. Those that know me know I don't take to change very well.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: > -------------------
: > fwp@deepthought.com

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Frank Pittel - 25 Feb 2005 17:05 GMT
Sorry about that. I managed to post this without intending to.
As it turns out I've managed to order things from them in the
past and have bookmarked them for future reference.
I'm still struggling on whether or not to use graded or VC paper.
I wouldn't mind paying extra for the graded paper if there is a
quality<SP?> difference between graded and VC. Can I ask why you
use graded paper?
: : > : > : >I've been going to my normal haunts looking for Oriental Seagull
: : > : > : >11x14 Fiber paper. They are all out of the stuff. Does anyone know if
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: : > Thanks for the word on Freestyle getting a shipment. I just put in an
: : > order for a couple of boxes.
: : Freestyle's shipping is weird. They charge a minimum
: : $5, then $6 per $100 after the first $100 order. Most
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: : even with bigger ticket items (16x20 Seagull @ $160)
: : I save over Calumet.
: : > : > ?? My primary source for the Oriental Seagull is Calumet and they still have
: : > : > it listed on their website. they just show as beinging out of stock.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: : > and when I can't go in person lightning fast delivery. I've put in
: : > orders with them in the afternoon one day and have recieved it the next!!
: : Calumet charges between $10-$23 more per box of Seagull
: : but with no shipping probably worth it.
: : > : There have been some delays in stock availability but
: : > : no one I've talked to says there is a supply problem.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: : > added RC paper to their product line. I hope the changes are
: : > minor.
: : The word is it's minor, but I don't use VC Oriental anyway...
: : > I've gotten very comfortable with their paper and I like
: : > it. Those that know me know I don't take to change very well.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: : > -------------------
: : > fwp@deepthought.com
: Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
: -------------------
: fwp@deepthought.com

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Tom Phillips - 25 Feb 2005 21:10 GMT
> I'm still struggling on whether or not to use graded or VC paper.
> I wouldn't mind paying extra for the graded paper if there is a
> quality<SP?> difference between graded and VC. Can I ask why you
> use graded paper?
I don't know of any quality difference; I'm not the person
to ask. VC papers first became popular with students, as I
recall, because overall it's cheaper than buying 2-3 grades
of the same paper. It also works well because students are
often less likely to get a properly exposed negative that
prints adequately on a specific grade. But VC has has other
creative possibilites and also became popular for that.
I use graded mainly because I don't have creative issues
with negative exposure/densities (unless of course I make
a mistake.) Also, I don't like dealing with the filters and
my older cold light doesn't accommodate VC anyway. All my
negatives are exposed and developed so as to print on a
specific grade of paper with a full tonal range; I rarely
need go to a different grade. I also have little need for
print controls via splitting contrast grades in the same
print. I consider that a sign of faulty craft (i.e., not
knowing how to get a properly exposed negative.) Ideally,
if you know how to obtain a good negative through exposure
and development that will print with both good shadow and
highlight detail on a certain paper grade, you also know
how you'll be printing that negative when you make it. If
fine tuning is necessary I prefer to use other available
printing controls.
On the other hand maybe I'm just an old fart who isn't keen
on changing his ways :)
Frank Pittel - 26 Feb 2005 00:30 GMT
: > I'm still struggling on whether or not to use graded or VC paper.
: > I wouldn't mind paying extra for the graded paper if there is a
: > quality<SP?> difference between graded and VC. Can I ask why you
: > use graded paper?
: I don't know of any quality difference; I'm not the person
: to ask. VC papers first became popular with students, as I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: prints adequately on a specific grade. But VC has has other
: creative possibilites and also became popular for that.
: I use graded mainly because I don't have creative issues
: with negative exposure/densities (unless of course I make
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
: fine tuning is necessary I prefer to use other available
: printing controls.
: On the other hand maybe I'm just an old fart who isn't keen
: on changing his ways :)
Like you I generally print with a single paper grade. Although in
theory my process is tuned for grade 2 I find that I prefer grade 3.
There are of course the exceptions were I screw up and have to use
a high or lower grade. There are times that I will use multiple
filters when printing. The most common is when dealing with clouds.
I will make the print with a grade 3 filter and then burn in the clouds
with a low grade such as 0.

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Tom Phillips - 26 Feb 2005 02:55 GMT
> : > I'm still struggling on whether or not to use graded or VC paper.
> : > I wouldn't mind paying extra for the graded paper if there is a
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Like you I generally print with a single paper grade. Although in
> theory my process is tuned for grade 2 I find that I prefer grade 3.
Grade 2 and sometime 3 is all I ever need. Once
in a blue moon I've used a G4. I have a old box
of grade 5. Never used a single sheet. I think once
I may have used a grade 1. OTOH G2 can be developed
to a grade 1 if needed.
> There are of course the exceptions were I screw up and have to use
> a high or lower grade. There are times that I will use multiple
> filters when printing. The most common is when dealing with clouds.
> I will make the print with a grade 3 filter and then burn in the clouds
> with a low grade such as 0.
Split development can be an effective printing control
(selectol+dektol.) Or intensifying the negative (very
carefully) or bleaching a print either locally or
wholly. Sometimes I'll add orthozite to dektol in
varying amounts. I'm of the opinion that the practice
of fine art printing controls is more useful artistically
than the convenience of VC papers.
Gregory Blank - 26 Feb 2005 03:22 GMT
> On the other hand maybe I'm just an old fart who isn't keen
> on changing his ways :)
LOL ; That "must" be the case. :-)
Of course when one learns how to make negatives that
print the way one wants them to on one specific grade
why change!!!

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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Gregory Blank - 25 Feb 2005 22:40 GMT
> Sorry about that. I managed to post this without intending to.
> As it turns out I've managed to order things from them in the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> quality<SP?> difference between graded and VC. Can I ask why you
> use graded paper?
I'll be interested in Tom's reply too. Never the less the thing I would
say about graded paper is that the graded papers I have seen (Forte)
have much more consistent plots emulsion to emulsion than VC papers for
a given grade. There is some leeway between grades before one becomes
the higher or the lower adjacent grade.

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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Tom Phillips - 25 Feb 2005 23:31 GMT
> > Sorry about that. I managed to post this without intending to.
> > As it turns out I've managed to order things from them in the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> a given grade. There is some leeway between grades before one becomes
> the higher or the lower adjacent grade.
I did reply, maybe your newsfeed missed it.
I'd have to agree on the consistency of graded papers.
I've never used enough VC to comment though.
yuji - 26 Feb 2005 14:47 GMT
Acording to the web site of Oriental in Japanese,Oriental stopped t
make Oriental G in 2003,and began to make Oriental GF in 2003.
There is no supply problem , but there is no retail and can buy the
diretly from the web site in japan.I cannot buy them even in th
Japan's biggest camera shop.
http://www.cybergraphics.co.jp/
For exanple,The price of 100 sheets of VC-FB II is 5019Yen,about 50 u
dollar.
Here is a data sheet of Oriental GF,in japanese
http://www.cybergraphics.co.jp/products/nsg_gf/data/nsg-gf.pdf
Here is a product information of Oriental G,even though there is n
stock of
Oriental G.Oriental direct is not selling Oriental G.
http://www.cybergraphics.co.jp/english/products/nsg_g/index.htm
--
yuji