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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / February 2005

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Drying FB Paper

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Neal - 23 Feb 2005 05:57 GMT
I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
prints for a pretty good chunk, and I'll be shipping him the print on
11x14 fibre paper, which I have never used.

How do you dry your fibre prints?  We've agreed that he will get it
mounted and framed when it arrives to cut on shipping cost (to
hawaii).

Thanks for any suggestions.
Richard Knoppow - 23 Feb 2005 07:11 GMT
> I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
> onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.

  The traditional method is to dry the print emulsion side down on a
screen. Modern fiberglass window screens work fine. The idea is that
the screen keeps the emulsion side from drying out too fast and causing
curl. Curl happens anyway but is probably not as severe.
  Another traditional method is photo blotters. These used to come in
books and rolls with an intermediate sheet of water proof paper. The
idea is the same as the screens, to allow the drying to happen from the
support side first. Blotters have the disadvantage of being slow and
posing the risk of contamination.
  A method I've found works well is to hang the prints using clothes
pins. One at each side at the top, two more at the bottom corners as
weights. The disadvantage is that the pins leave marks. If you are
going to mount the prints you will probably be trimming the edges off
anyway.
  Heated print dryers were used for commercial and photofinishing work
but are not good for the emulsion or backing. Let the prints dry
slowly.
  Flattening is best done in a dry mounting press even if you don't
dry mount. The technique is to place the print on a sheet of two of
thick Kraft or construction paper which has already been dried out in
the press. Put a sheet of release tissue over the emulsion side and
another couple of sheets of paper over this as a cussion. Dry in the
press at around 190F or less for a minute or two under light pressure.
Then place the entire sandwich of print, paper, and release tissue
under a flat weight to cool for a few minutes. The prints will be flat
and will not curl. The idea of the release tissue is again to prevent
the emulsion side from drying out.
  Prints which are to have a very glossy surface must be dried on
ferrotype plates. This is a process which requires some care and is
usful only for this purpose. If you are interested in this I will
describe the procedure I've found reasonably successful.

Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
dan.c.quinn@att.net - 23 Feb 2005 11:02 GMT
> How do you dry your fibre prints?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.

 I use a blotter stack. The stack begins with
a corrugated board at bottom with a blotter placed
on top then prints, another blotter and board, all
topped off with a few books or other weights. The
stack can be built as high as you like.
 Prints are dry and ready to mount out of the stack.
Tuck it easily away when not in use. Likely you could
put one togeather for under $5. I'll provide more
detail if you're interested.                      Dan
David Nebenzahl - 23 Feb 2005 21:07 GMT
On 2/23/2005 3:02 AM dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus:

>> How do you dry your fibre prints?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> put one togeather for under $5. I'll provide more
> detail if you're interested.

Just one thing--you don't re-use the blotters too many times, do you? Seems
like a big risk of contamination otherwise (from residual chemistry in the
prints).

Signature

"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

- Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by
the late Hunter S. Thompson

dan.c.quinn@att.net - 23 Feb 2005 22:47 GMT
> Just one thing--you don't re-use the blotters
> too many times, do you? Seems like a big risk of
> contamination otherwise (from residual chemistry
> in the prints).

 Of course one must be sure, or at least satisfied,
that all that can be done has been done to remove all
possible of the chemistry prior to drying.
 After spongeing I pre-dry on a metal grid allowing
some of the H2O molecules to escape. While still damp
and quite flexable they are placed in the stack. The
blotters are of a non-woven hydrophobic material
which can be found at any fabric shop. They'll
likely clean as do the screens some use.
 My working premise is, a CLEAN print transfers no
chemistry. I could argue that the use of blotters must
be part of any archival sequence. After all else has
been done prior to drying, the blotter may coax some
minute additional chemistry from the print. One
might even think of using a blotter stack as a
sort of post wash HCA.                             Dan
David Nebenzahl - 23 Feb 2005 23:53 GMT
On 2/23/2005 2:47 PM dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus:

>> Just one thing--you don't re-use the blotters
>> too many times, do you? Seems like a big risk of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> blotters are of a non-woven hydrophobic material
> which can be found at any fabric shop.

That's cool--washable, reuseable blotters. Good idea.

Signature

"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

- Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by
the late Hunter S. Thompson

dan.c.quinn@att.net - 24 Feb 2005 23:08 GMT
> On 2/23/2005 2:47 PM dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> That's cool--washable, reuseable blotters. Good idea.

 I did'nt mean to imply that hypo eliminator be used in
the quest to "remove all possible of the chemistry".
 That non-woven hydrophobic fabric is very light weight
and very low cost. It could be tossed after a short use.
 I'll be checking out a few varieties of the material
and how to quickly cut it to size. I've found that
polypropylene is the most hydrophobic.
For now I've polyester.                             Dan
Gregory Blank - 24 Feb 2005 01:19 GMT
>After all else has been done prior to drying, the blotter may coax some
> minute additional chemistry from the print.

Yes and over time those minute amounts contaminate the prints
unless one chucks the blotter.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Lloyd Erlick - 24 Feb 2005 20:18 GMT
>>After all else has been done prior to drying, the blotter may coax some
>> minute additional chemistry from the print.
>
>Yes and over time those minute amounts contaminate the prints
>unless one chucks the blotter.

feb2405 from Lloyd Erlick,

Chuck them now, before you use them, and they will
never, ever contaminate your prints. In fact, chuck
them before you buy them, and they will be even better.

Chuck your tongs, gloves and print drying screens, too.
Don't chuck the squeegee, though, it's still good for
cleaning the sink.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Gregory Blank - 24 Feb 2005 20:24 GMT
> feb2405 from Lloyd Erlick,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> regards,
> --le

I never use a blotter, so there's no blot on my record
or my prints :-)

& Yes that's what my squeegee gets used for,...not prints.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Lloyd Erlick - 24 Feb 2005 21:00 GMT
...
>I never use a blotter, so there's no blot on my record
>or my prints :-)
>
>& Yes that's what my squeegee gets used for,...not prints.

feb2405 from Lloyd Erlick,

Do you do windows??

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Gregory Blank - 24 Feb 2005 21:34 GMT
> Do you do windows??

LOL ,.... no I prefer Mac's :-)

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Lloyd Erlick - 24 Feb 2005 21:41 GMT
>> Do you do windows??
>
>LOL ,.... no I prefer Mac's :-)

... no hamburgers in the darkroom ...
Andrew Price - 24 Feb 2005 20:40 GMT
[---]

>Chuck them now, before you use them, and they will
>never, ever contaminate your prints. In fact, chuck
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Don't chuck the squeegee, though, it's still good for
>cleaning the sink.

I know I've said this before, but I cannot but recommend the technical
article on your website on that subject.  The phrase:

>Drying Screens Get Out of Town If You Know What's Good for You, and
>Take Squeegee With You, Too!

still makes me crack up, every time I read it !
Lloyd Erlick - 24 Feb 2005 21:03 GMT
>[---]
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>still makes me crack up, every time I read it !

feb2405 from Lloyd Erlick,

Thanks, that's the first time I've seen that quoted!

I was a little flippant there, I guess. Actually,
drying screens would make great sink scrubbers if a
little piece of the mesh is cut out and crumpled up in
the hands.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Nicholas O. Lindan - 25 Feb 2005 00:50 GMT
> I was a little flippant there, I guess. Actually,
> drying screens would make great sink scrubbers if a
> little piece of the mesh is cut out and crumpled up in
> the hands.

Hey, I found out they fit in these rails in my house's
window frames.  Great for keeping bugs out in the summer...

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

dan.c.quinn@att.net - 24 Feb 2005 23:46 GMT
I can see only one way a hydrophobic blotter material
could coax any chemistry from a pre-screen  dried but
still damp, flexable print; by contact transfer at the very
surface of the two materials.

If a print is entirely air dried, say on a screen, then those
minute amounts of chemistry remain in and on the surface
of the print. Would it not be better they be wisked away with
a blotter. An easily washable and/or disposable blotter, I'd think,
would contribute to the production of archival results.

Mr. Erlick in a recent post pointed us to information dealing
with the conservation of valueable papers. IIRC, blotters were
used in each and every case.                                       Dan
Steven Kefford - 23 Feb 2005 23:59 GMT
> On 2/23/2005 3:02 AM dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus:

...
> Just one thing--you don't re-use the blotters too many times, do you?
> Seems like a big risk of contamination otherwise (from residual
> chemistry in the prints).

If you have residual chemistry in the print, then it has not been washed
sufficiently, and the print is no good, so you might as well ditch it.

Steve
David Nebenzahl - 24 Feb 2005 01:18 GMT
On 2/23/2005 4:00 PM Steven spake thus:

>> On 2/23/2005 3:02 AM dan.c.quinn@att.net spake thus:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> If you have residual chemistry in the print, then it has not been washed
> sufficiently, and the print is no good, so you might as well ditch it.

Well, of course; what I was getting at was the possibility that residual
chemistry can be absorbed by a blotter and accumulate over time, so that
eventually you have a *lot* of junk which can transfer back to prints, even if
the prints have been reasonably well washed.

Signature

"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

- Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by
the late Hunter S. Thompson

jjs - 24 Feb 2005 02:00 GMT
> Well, of course; what I was getting at was the possibility that residual
> chemistry can be absorbed by a blotter and accumulate over time, so that
> eventually you have a *lot* of junk which can transfer back to prints,
> even if the prints have been reasonably well washed.

Air dry them on vinyl screen. Press them flat between archival paper layers
in a book press. I have to believe you can find a book press.
Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 08:28 GMT
> > Well, of course; what I was getting at was the possibility that residual
> > chemistry can be absorbed by a blotter and accumulate over time, so that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Air dry them on vinyl screen. Press them flat between archival paper layers
> in a book press. I have to believe you can find a book press.

Vinyl is not chemically inert, i.e., not an archival material.
David Nebenzahl - 24 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT
On 2/24/2005 12:29 AM Tom Phillips spake thus:

>> > Well, of course; what I was getting at was the possibility that residual
>> > chemistry can be absorbed by a blotter and accumulate over time, so that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Vinyl is not chemically inert, i.e., not an archival material.

Fiberglass, then? Certainly not aluminum ...

Signature

"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

- Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by
the late Hunter S. Thompson

Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 09:16 GMT
> On 2/24/2005 12:29 AM Tom Phillips spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Fiberglass, then? Certainly not aluminum ...

I believe mine are fiberglass.

Don't know of anyone who's ever used aluminum; I'd
think it would corrode/rust eventually.
Gregory Blank - 23 Feb 2005 13:43 GMT
> I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
> onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.

I use a procedure a little different from mostly everyone else "nothing
new on my part".

I dry them face up on a plastic screen, I do this because I had noticed
on the onset some prints face down had screen marks in the emulsion.
Maybe because I did not squeegee them? Anyway I have yet to see
water drop marks from my doing drying face up probably because I very
diligently wash my FB prints. They do curl a lot, but I flatten them in
a dry mount press using a sheet of acid free board above and below the
print using a press temperature of 200 degrees F.

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Tom Phillips - 23 Feb 2005 22:37 GMT
> > I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
> > onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> on the onset some prints face down had screen marks in the emulsion.
> Maybe because I did not squeegee them?

You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
(as far as drying anyway.) Drying screens should not leave
impressions in the emulsion.

> Anyway I have yet to see
> water drop marks from my doing drying face up probably because I very
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
> to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Gregory Blank - 23 Feb 2005 22:47 GMT
> You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
> (as far as drying anyway.)

How do you figure that?

> Drying screens should not leave
> impressions in the emulsion.

No they shouldn't but it may have been a different
screen set than the current nylon? screen I use now
and what I am doing works so I ain't gonna fix it by
putting the prints face down :-)

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Frank Pittel - 24 Feb 2005 00:15 GMT
: > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
: > (as far as drying anyway.)

: How do you figure that?

: > Drying screens should not leave
: > impressions in the emulsion.

: No they shouldn't but it may have been a different
: screen set than the current nylon? screen I use now
: and what I am doing works so I ain't gonna fix it by
: putting the prints face down :-)

I dry my fiber prints face down on screens from Calumet (zone VI)
and when I remove the dry prints prints they have the screen pattern
on them. It looks like the screen made indentations in the soft wet
emulsion. I am of course carefull not to drag the wet print on the
screens. I've also noticed that the with time the marks fade. I've
always attributed it to the emulsion relaxing with time.

I'm sure that I'm all wet with what the screen pattern is and why it
fades with time. All I know for sure is that the screen pattern is there
when the prints first dry and after a while the screen patterns fade.

My biggest problem is when I get lint, dust, etc on the screens and I
don't notice until the prints are dry and the junk from the screen is
embedded in the emulsion of the print. I've ruined more prints then I
care to think about that way.
Signature


Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

Gregory Blank - 24 Feb 2005 01:20 GMT
> : > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
> : > (as far as drying anyway.)
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> embedded in the emulsion of the print. I've ruined more prints then I
> care to think about that way.

See given enough time you always find two people that will agree >:-D

Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Frank Pittel - 24 Feb 2005 01:47 GMT
: > : > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
: > : > (as far as drying anyway.)
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
: > embedded in the emulsion of the print. I've ruined more prints then I
: > care to think about that way.

: See given enough time you always find two people that will agree >:-D

:-)
Signature


Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

Lloyd Erlick - 24 Feb 2005 20:56 GMT
feb2405 from Lloyd Erlick,

no longer sure who wrote:
...
>> My biggest problem is when I get lint, dust, etc on the screens and I
>> don't notice until the prints are dry and the junk from the screen is
>> embedded in the emulsion of the print. I've ruined more prints then I
>> care to think about that way.
...

Yes, me too. That is one of the main reasons I scrapped
my drying screens. Filthy things. I prefer nothing to
touch my prints while they are wet.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Richard Knoppow - 24 Feb 2005 06:08 GMT
> : > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically
> inert
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> prints then I
> care to think about that way.

  I think what you are seeing is residual moisture where
the screens were in contact with the print. The emulsion
will be slightly swollen there. If this is the case it will
shrink up again as the moisture reaches equibrium. The
effect probably varies among papers due to the variations in
the "hardness" of the emulsion, and will probably also vary
depending on whether a hardening fixing bath is used or not
since the hardening affects the amount by which the gelatin
swells.
Actually, this is its primary purpose.

Signature

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 08:28 GMT
> > : > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically
> > inert
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> swells.
> Actually, this is its primary purpose.

Sounds logical. However, it may also possibly depend on the
fineness of the screen's pores, since this is not a phenomenon
I ever noticed with my screens.
Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 08:23 GMT
> : > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
> : > (as far as drying anyway.)
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> fades with time. All I know for sure is that the screen pattern is there
> when the prints first dry and after a while the screen patterns fade.

If the patterns disappear one might surmise the wet emulsion
is being physically impressed when soft. But in 30 years I've
never used screens that did this. The screens I made (from
fiberglass I think, could be nylon) have a very thin, fine,
and soft porous pattern and do not leave marks wet or dry.

> My biggest problem is when I get lint, dust, etc on the screens and I
> don't notice until the prints are dry and the junk from the screen is
> embedded in the emulsion of the print. I've ruined more prints then I
> care to think about that way.

My screens are layered in an enclosed rack with a covered
top. Dust isn't much of a problem. I helps to wash the
screens often, both to remove dust and any possible chemical
contamination (from work prints, etc.)
Tom Phillips - 24 Feb 2005 08:23 GMT
> > You're likely using a screen that is not chemically inert
> > (as far as drying anyway.)
>
> How do you figure that?

Not all screen materials are equal (yes?) and some might
not be chemically inert; from experience I know some
plastics at least are incompatible. I once used a
plastic material screen to dry some RC prints and it
reacted chemically, leaving a permanent pattern of the
screen on the prints.

> > Drying screens should not leave
> > impressions in the emulsion.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and what I am doing works so I ain't gonna fix it by
> putting the prints face down :-)

If it ain't broke don't fix is a fairly good maxim.

> LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
> or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
> is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
> to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918h
PGG - 23 Feb 2005 13:49 GMT
I simply hang the prints by clipping it at the corner with a binder clip.
Leaves a little mark, but nothing that bothers me.  

Regardless, how will your customer feel if you send him a unmounted,
curled fiber print?  Even if you use drying screens, blotters, etc, the
print will still curl without dry-mounting it.  

> I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
> onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
Neal - 24 Feb 2005 01:47 GMT
>I simply hang the prints by clipping it at the corner with a binder clip.
>Leaves a little mark, but nothing that bothers me.  
>
>Regardless, how will your customer feel if you send him a unmounted,
>curled fiber print?  Even if you use drying screens, blotters, etc, the
>print will still curl without dry-mounting it.  

I'd wondered about that but assmed that shipping it in plastic
sandwiched between stiff cardboard would not permit re-curling.
jjs - 24 Feb 2005 02:02 GMT
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:49:50 GMT, PGG

>Regardless, how will your customer feel if you send him a unmounted,
>curled fiber print?  Even if you use drying screens, blotters, etc, the
>print will still curl without dry-mounting it.

I don't know what kind of drying or paper you are using, but it is not truly
a problem making flat, air-dried prints. Not at all.
bob - 23 Feb 2005 14:27 GMT
> How do you dry your fibre prints?

I dry mine face down on a screen overnight and then press them flat.
8x10 I just stick inside a large book. 11x14 I would probably lay flat
on a table and press with something like laminated hardboard. Or maybe
foamcore. Weighted with books.

If you let them continue to dry unweighted they will curl up.

You don't mention if you're familiar with FB paper or not. If not, then
be sure to read about the somewhat different fixing and washing methods,
too.

Bob
Lloyd Erlick - 23 Feb 2005 19:45 GMT
>I am pretty handy in the darkroom in terms of getting the image I want
>onto my nice easy RC paper, but I've agreed to sell someone one of my
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Thanks for any suggestions.

feb2305 from Lloyd Erlick

I've got an article on my website about drying FB
prints. It's under the 'technical' heading in the table
of contents.

I like to handle a print in such a way that nothing
touches the face/image area while it is wet. I decided
the only way to be sure nothing has contaminated the
print is to permit nothing to touch it while it is wet.
Obviously certain things must touch it, like solutions
and the tray, but I've worked out a working method that
reduces it to the absolute minimum. That means no
fingers, gloves, tongs, squeegee, etc. It also means no
chemical exposure at all for skin, among other things.

I dry my prints by hanging them, and in place of a
squeegee I sluice down my hanging prints with distilled
water, both sides.

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Nicholas O. Lindan - 23 Feb 2005 21:38 GMT
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:57:09 GMT, Neal
>
> >How do you dry your fibre prints?
> I like to handle a print in such a way that nothing
> touches the face/image area while it is wet.

Me, I'm a hedonistic philistine.  I use an Arkay paper drier.
Used paper dryers are available cheap.

I haven't had any problems in 40+ years of drying prints.

If you buy a used drier you may want to wash the canvas
for peace of mind.  Do it by hand in _cold_ water with
Woolite (hair shampoo is a dandy Woolite substitute [wool
is hair, right?], but don't use shampoo in the washing
machine).  The canvas will shrink if washed in hot water,
why I don't know, it's been damp and hot for most of it's
life.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix  . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

 
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