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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / March 2005Using a Dry Mount press???
I know this will be very basic; but..... I just bought a Seal 120 press and cleaned it up. Got Promount tissue and release paper. Washed some Ilford MGIV Glossy prints. Took an 8 x 10 matboard, tissue print. Sandwiched that between release paper. Set mount to 200 degrees. When warmed up, I put the sandwich in the press and closed it for 5 minutes. Take out the package, everything peels apart. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Thanks.  SignatureRegards, Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution Try raising the temperature of the press higher in 50 degree increments until the adhesion is good. The temperature indicator of the press may not be accurate. Here are some possibilities. Did you adjust the press so the "sandwich" is actually being compressed? I am not familiar with Promount tissue. It might need higher temp (unlikely), or the temperature indicator may be wrong. The press needs probably 15 minutes to get to temperature. This tissue may require that the sandwich be cooled under weight. That is, it doesn't stick until the wax cools. in which case you should have extra mat board above and below the sandwich; take it all out of the press, and put a weight down on it until it cools some. Also, glossy RC paper sometimes gets an "orange peel" effect with release paper. Some people recommend something else which is stiffer. Oh, 5 minutes is too long, I think. I would try 2 minutes. Tell us what works. RJF > I know this will be very basic; but..... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. > Seal 120 press and cleaned it up. Got Promount tissue and > > release paper. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Yes, you have a soft bed press - Seal, not a hard bed press - Ademco. With a soft bed press the bonding takes place outside the press under weight. With a hard bed press the bonding takes place inside the press. With your press heat to the required temperature, press and take out of the press and place a heavy weight on the print/mount until it cools. SignatureTo reply no_ HPMarketing Corp. Thank you, that did it. SignatureRegards, Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution >> Seal 120 press and cleaned it up. Got Promount tissue and >> > release paper. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > With your press heat to the required temperature, press and take out of > the press and place a heavy weight on the print/mount until it cools. Read the directions? Seriously some of these new tissues do not really bond until cool (a bit like hot melt glue) and need to remain under pressure until completely cooled off. Also, do not trust the thermostat on your press, seal makes indicator strips to tell you what the temp really is inside your press. Signaturedarkroommike ---------- > I know this will be very basic; but..... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. The factory sealed roll of Promount I purchased new had a tech sheet describing how to use various Bienfang dry mount adhesive in vacuum presses, mechanical presses and hard bed presses. Also described how to make release boards. No where did it describe this material (or any of the other materials) as a heat activated/cool set adhesive. No where did it describe what to do after heat was applied. I agree such information would have avoided my need to request advice. I did not mention the tech sheet because I thought readers would have assumed the directions were already consulted ( as well as several books on matting/framing/mounting). SignatureRegards, Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution > Read the directions? Seriously some of these new tissues do not really > bond [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> Thanks. > The factory sealed roll of Promount I purchased new had a > tech sheet describing how to use various Bienfang dry [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > would have assumed the directions were already consulted > ( as well as several books on matting/framing/mounting). Release paper or tissue is very useful. I don't think Bienfang makes it but Light Impressions does. The tissue can be reused until it is wrinkled. It is also a good idea to use low temperature mounting tissue. Fusion temperature of mounting tissue varies from around 220F to about 190F. For RC or color prints the low temperature stuff is very desirable. http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/ Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com >I know this will be very basic; but..... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks. Make sure the temperature of the press is what it says. 200F should fuse any dry mounting tissue and is too hot for some. You need dry mounting tissue, release paper, some "kraft" or "construction" paper, the mounting board, and a flat weight. This is ideally metal but a sheet of smooth plywood or similar will do. There are two keys to good dry mounting. One is to dry out the print and materials first. The first step is to put the kraft paper into the press and dry it for two or three minutes. Then, place the print emulsion side down on a sheet of release paper. Put sheets of dry kraft paper on either side. Put this into the press and close it down. The press does not have to be locked for this. Leave the sandwich in the press for about two minutes. Take it out and place the entire thing under the flat weight for a few minutes until it has cooled. This will flatten the print. Now cut a sheet of dry mounting tissue a bit larger than the print. Tack it to the print at ta point on ONE EDGE. Do NOT tack it, as is often recommended, at the center, that will cause wrinkles and voids. After it is tacked cover the print on both sides with release tissue and place this between a few sheets of dryed kraft paper. the kraft paper acts as a cussion and to even out the heat. Put this in the press and lock it down for about a minute. Then take out the whole sandwich and again put it under the flat weight until it cools. This will bond the release tissue to the back of the print. Remove the print from the release tissue and trim it to the desired dimensions. The mounting tissue will, of course, be perfectly trimmed along with the paper. When trimmed place the paper on the mount in the desired position. Using a couple of layers of scrap release tissue tack it to the mount board, again at a point on one edge, not the center. When its tacked cover the face with release tissue and several layers of kraft paper, again as a cussion. Then place this combination in the press and lock it down. Leave it in for about two to three minutes. It should not take longer than this to fuse the tissue. When the time has passed open the press and place the entire sandwich under the flat weight until cool. When dry mounting is done this way the prints will be perfectly smooth with no problems from wrinkles of voids. The dry mounting tissue may be quite tacky until it cools down. This may be the source of your trouble. However, test the tissue with the tacking iron to make sure it does actually melt and fuse. Its possible that the tissue is defective. Secondly, as dumb as it sounds, make sure you are not confusing release paper with the mounting tissue, in some cases they look pretty similar. While some archivists and gallery owners do not like dry mounting I believe it is the best method for display prints. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com As I re-read this I realize I left out the "second key". It is the use of the flat weight. It should be used as indicated after drying out the print in the press to make sure its flat and to cool the mounted print under to make sure it bonds to the mount. The more heat absorbent the material is the better. The ideal weight is a plate of aluminum but even heavy plywood will do if its really smooth. Proabably glass would work but I would be afraid of accidentally breaking it. The procedure I posted is OK but I may not have been as clear as possible about this point. Make sure the thick paper used to dry the print and as padding is free of anything which could transfer to the prints and attack the image. Archival paper should be good enough. Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com Richard, Thank you for all your input. I printed out this plus some stuff you wrote from the old Seal handbook (which I am going to try ) and posted on another site. As it is, it was my failure to understand the cooling phase; which was NOT even mentioned with the paper sent with the roll of tissue. SignatureRegards, Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution > As I re-read this I realize I left out the "second key". It is the > use of the flat weight. It should be used as indicated after drying out [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk@ix.netcom.com > Richard, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > phase; which was NOT even mentioned with the paper sent > with the roll of tissue. Another source of confusion is that Kodak instructions are rather different from Seal's. For years Kodak recomended tacking the mounting tissue to the print by making an X on the back using the tacking iron and then tacking all four corners of the mounting tissue to the matte. This just about gurantees wrinkles and voids; its a bad technique. Kodak also does not mention the use of a weight to cool the mounted print. The Seal insructions are far more complete and, more important, they work! The Seal tacking method prevents trapping air between the mounting tissue and either print or matt. Fusing the tissue to the print first allows very clean trimming of the print and tissue together so there is absolutely no hangover of tissue and minimal bleeding of the melted adhesive at the edges. Its also much easier to handle; trying to locate a print with tacked tissue on a mount is a PITA. The method of flattening prints in the dry mount press also works well even when the print is to be mounted in some other way or left unmounted. It evidently helps to equalize the shrinkage of the emulsion and support. It is this difference that causes the curling in the first place. Prints flattened in the press seem to stay flat over very long periods of time. Seal evidently put a lot of effort into working out the best method for using their materials. Signature--- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@ix.netcom.com I don't find that the process simply HAS to be done any particular way and everyone no doubt does it a bit differently. I've read some good points posted by others, for example, drying out the mount board first so that the (presumably) dry print doesn't get marred by the press, but frankly, that only happened to me once, when it had been a long time since I'd used the press and barely remembered how. You are supposed to let the press heat up to temp, making sure the print and mount board are completely dry, then carefully spot-tack the mounting tissue to the print and then to the board. Use release paper around the print sandwich to shield it from direct contact with the press, and after heating up the works in the press, set it aside under weight for a few minutes. I use an encyclopedia for this. A few moments later, check the adhesion. Sometimes an edge won't be adhered quite as perfectly as I'd like, so I throw it in the press again. That usually does the trick. There are sites on the net that have extensive directions about dry mounting photos, replete with all sorts of tips and detail well beyond anything provided here. But it really isn't that complex, in my experience. Practice on a "near miss" print that you don't mind losing or just make up a new print if you screw up a good one you were trying to mount. Write down your notes because you may forget all you've learned between uses of the press, and nobody can teach you to do something as well as you can teach yourself. If all else fails, follow the frigging directions for the press!!! I've mounted prints by several methods and like the dry mount method a lot, but it isn't the only way and there are ways that are far less expensive than the cost of a good press. There was a form of two-stick that worked really well and the finished product looked almost as good as a dry mounted print. Unfortunately, they stopped making it and the currently available stuff is pure crap, just garbage to avoid at all costs. A lttle OT, but what temperature and time do you use in a dry mount press to iron the curl out of fiber prints? >I don't find that the process simply HAS to be done any particular way > and everyone no doubt does it a bit differently. I've read some good > points posted by others, for example, drying out the mount board first > so that the (presumably) dry print doesn't get marred by the press, but > frankly, that only happened to me once, when it had been a long time > since I'd used the press and barely remembered how. <SNIP> A lttle OT, but what temperature and time do you use in a dry mount press to iron the curl out of fiber prints? What's a fiber print? > A lttle OT, but what temperature and time do you use in a dry mount > press to > iron the curl out of fiber prints? > > What's a fiber print? I can't see any reason to use a different temperature from that at which I mount the prints. IOW, leave the temp set at one position (180F for me) all the time. Since the question is on fiber based prints, temperature is less critical, as opposed to RC prints that can be damaged by high temps. To prevent (or at least minimize) the curl in the first place, the general guideline is long, slow drying time; perhaps by putting the print between blotters in a dry mount press that's turned _off_ for a couple days. Years ago, I used a flip-over style dryer and ferrotype plates to dry prints. The key was to get the plate wet (and cold) and roller the print onto the plate. Place the plate in the dryer and flip it over. Start timer for 3 minutes and prepare the second plate (wet, cold, roller print). After three minutes, put the second plate in the dryer, flip it over, time 3 minutes. Take the first (now dry) print out, place it on a cool surface (formica countertop) under weight (college electronics textbook!). Prepare plate (wet, cold, roller print), put it in the dryer, flip it over, time 3 minutes.... I consistly got good glossy fiber-base prints that were very flat. Now I just use RC paper and run the print thru the RA-4 minilab wash and dryer racks. Ken Hart Someone will correct me if my memory is faulty, but my brain recalls the number 180 F. |
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