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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / January 2005220 volt vs 120 volt enlargers
Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? Thank you. > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? None whatsoever. > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. Certainly. A 120 volt enlarger will last much longer when plugged into 120 than 220. Plug a 120 volt enlarger into 220, and it will work for milliseconds, your warranty will be void, and you just may qualify for a Darwin award. So, in other words, the voltage of your enlarger must match the voltage where you intend on using it. For example, in the U.S., use the 120 version and in Europe the 220. On 1/13/2005 10:44 PM Jim Phelps spake thus: >> Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > where you intend on using it. For example, in the U.S., use the 120 version > and in Europe the 220. You posting wins the latest round of the "Duh!" awards.  SignatureToday's bullshit job description: • Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management of the production Information Technology infrastructure. - from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org) > On 1/13/2005 10:44 PM Jim Phelps spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You posting wins the latest round of the "Duh!" awards. And the original question doesn't? On 1/13/2005 11:44 PM Jim Phelps spake thus: >> On 1/13/2005 10:44 PM Jim Phelps spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > And the original question doesn't? I guess his won the previous round ... SignatureToday's bullshit job description: • Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management of the production Information Technology infrastructure. - from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org) > On 1/13/2005 11:44 PM Jim Phelps spake thus: > > I guess his won the previous round ... Just trying to answer at the same level as the question. > Just trying to answer at the same level as the question. Hehe please don't quote or respond to people in my kill file :-) SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 >> Just trying to answer at the same level as the question. > >Hehe please don't quote or respond to people in my kill file :-) Would you care to supply the necessary crystal ball, such that we can tell just who is in your kill-file? > >Hehe please don't quote or respond to people in my kill file :-) > > Would you care to supply the necessary crystal ball, such that we can > tell just who is in your kill-file? Why? It was a joke. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 Give the initial poster a break. There are advantages to 220v clothes dryers and stoves over their 120v siblings. Might there be any to 220v enlargers? I don't know. But that may be why he asked the question. Collin Caveat: This posting may be as accurate as a Dan Rather comment. > There are advantages to 220v clothes dryers and stoves over their 120v > siblings. Might there be any to 220v enlargers [in a 120V country]? Domestic 220V is used in the US for high power appliances, such as the above dryers and stoves. But a 2,000+ watt enlarger? Somewhere there may be an 11x14" enlarger with a xenon/HID arc lamp light source, but most use a ~150W light bulb. At 150W there is no advantage to 220V. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ On 1/14/2005 8:40 AM Nicholas O. Lindan spake thus: >> There are advantages to 220v clothes dryers and stoves over their 120v >> siblings. Might there be any to 220v enlargers [in a 120V country]? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with a xenon/HID arc lamp light source, but most use a ~150W light bulb. > At 150W there is no advantage to 220V. Heh. Just for that, I'm going to outfit my old Elwood with a BAK projection lamp (1000 watts) and a forced-air cooling system, courtesy of my old Hell & Bowell 16mm projectors. Then fit my enlarging lens with a shutter and make exposures in the 1/10 second range ... SignatureToday's bullshit job description: • Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management of the production Information Technology infrastructure. - from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org) That makes more sense. In addition ... I wonder ... How many use voltage stabilizers on their condenser enlargers? If not, cheap UPSs for $35 or so would really be a good thing to obtain. > How many use voltage stabilizers on their condenser enlargers? > If not, cheap UPSs for $35 or so would really be a good thing to > obtain. Cheap UPS systems don't regulate the AC line. The regulation of the cheap "trip-lite" AC regulators is so bad they are not worth using. There was a cheap solution called a Wein 'Regu-Lite' that worked for low-line conditions but could not regulate if the line voltage got above 117V. The Wein's design and construction left much to be desired, if you get one/have one keep a fire extinguisher handy. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ Hi, The one place where 220v would be useful would be with the print drying machine (The flat one that have a canvas cover to hold the prints against the heating platen). I just acquired one that measures about 2½ x 3½ feet and +. Save on electricity, if I run it all day. Enlargers and safe lights are feeble users. Bogdan >>There are advantages to 220v clothes dryers and stoves over their 120v >>siblings. Might there be any to 220v enlargers [in a 120V country]? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with a xenon/HID arc lamp light source, but most use a ~150W light bulb. > At 150W there is no advantage to 220V. Signature__________________________________________________________________ Bogdan Karasek Montréal, Québec e-mail: bkarasek@videotron.ca Canada "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen" "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence" Ludwig Wittgenstein ________________________________________________________________ Richard Levacy via PhotoKB.com ha scritto: > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. yep ! less risk of electric shock ;) > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. Richard - The enlarger voltage should match the electrical service where you live. In Europe and some parts of Asia, the standard service voltage is 220v, and therefore 220 v would be the appropriate rating for the enlarger. In North America and most of South America, the standard service voltage is 120v and enlargers to be used in those areas should have that rating. Photographically, however, the voltage is unimportant. On 1/14/2005 7:03 AM Louie Powell spake thus: >> Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Photographically, however, the voltage is unimportant. So, why does much of Yurp use 220 while North America limps along on 110? Interesting cultural difference. SignatureToday's bullshit job description: • Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management of the production Information Technology infrastructure. - from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org) > On 1/14/2005 7:03 AM Louie Powell spake thus: > > So, why does much of Yurp use 220 while North America limps along on 110? > Interesting cultural difference. When Edison came up with his generating system he thought making it 200 something would generate (no pun intended) more law suits than making it 110, so 110 it was. When Tesla came up with his alternating current system, he had to make things downward compatible, so he was stuck with 110 Vac. As for why North America use 110 and Yurpeans use 200 and something, one reason is that Yurpeans are cheap (or is it wise?) and they don't like to spend too much money in copper. Pretty much the same thing as why should I drive a Suburban to go to work, wasting lots of gas and polluting like crazy when a Fiat will take me there for less (gas + pollutants), may be the comparison is a little too off, yeah, I think it is. :-) > Pretty much the same thing as why should I > drive a Suburban to go to work, wasting lots of gas and polluting like crazy > when a Fiat will take me there for less (gas + pollutants), may be the > comparison is a little too off, yeah, I think it is. > > :-) As FIAT owner... what a wonderful comparison!! :D ciao! Signatureed io imparo... loses are proportional to current, not voltage, so 240 is better than 110. to power appliances at 110 requires twice as much current, equals thicker wires. it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V power supply. *On 1/14/2005 7:03 AM Louie Powell spake thus: * *> "Richard Levacy via PhotoKB.com" <forum@PhotoKB.com> wrote in *> news:376acaa9ad9748e98afd977c5a2cbdee@PhotoKB.com: *> *>> Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? *> *> The enlarger voltage should match the electrical service where you live. *> In Europe and some parts of Asia, the standard service voltage is 220v, and *> therefore 220 v would be the appropriate rating for the enlarger. In North *> America and most of South America, the standard service voltage is 120v and *> enlargers to be used in those areas should have that rating. *> *> Photographically, however, the voltage is unimportant. * *So, why does much of Yurp use 220 while North America limps along on 110? *Interesting cultural difference. Most homes in USA have 220 line current available for larger appliances, Clothes dryers,Cooking Stoves and Washing Machines. > loses are proportional to current, not voltage, so 240 is better than > 110. to power appliances at 110 requires twice as much current, equals > thicker wires. > it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V > power supply. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 do you have different plugs for 220? *Most homes in USA have 220 line current available *for larger appliances, Clothes dryers,Cooking Stoves *and Washing Machines. * * *In article <nuugu0dbo38s3saaq0939sfvtjs8jnbqc8@4ax.com>, * the analyst <unlisted@due2spam.on.net> wrote: * *> loses are proportional to current, not voltage, so 240 is better than *> 110. to power appliances at 110 requires twice as much current, equals *> thicker wires. *> it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V *> power supply. > do you have different plugs for 220? Yes. SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 *In article <d6phu0p9e3l59capegimr2nvt3qvh912pe@4ax.com>, * the analyst <unlisted@due2spam.on.net> wrote: * *> do you have different plugs for 220? * *Yes. looking like something common (European, Italian British, Australian)or brand new design? > looking like something common (European, Italian British, > Australian)or brand new design? Three prongs configured in almost a "Y" shaped pattern, but that according to ,my electrician friend is a slightly older design than brand new and "current" ;^) Does that shock you? SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 > do you have different plugs for 220? HI, You bet; there are at least a half doz. England and the rest of Europe have different plugs (mostly the shape and size of the the three prongs. I just got back from China and S. Korea and you have two diff plugs in the same county. Go to a store that specializes in travel gear, Luggage, and they will sell you a little bag that contains all the half doz. that are usable with 220 and each plug indicates where it is usable . As for the transformation from 110 to 220 and vice-versa, most electronic units are equiped to handle both. Any laptop, CD, DVD player, battery charger, etc., incorporates both. Just make sure you bring the right adapter. Bogdan __________________________________________________________________ Bogdan Karasek Montréal, Québec e-mail: bkarasek@videotron.ca Canada "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen" "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence" Ludwig Wittgenstein ________________________________________________________________ >it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V >power supply. Nah, we just like to be different than the rest of the world ! Regards, John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org Please remove the "_" when replying via email you mean, you want to follow your Mr President? *On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:13:20 GMT, the analyst *<unlisted@due2spam.on.net> wrote: * *>it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V *>power supply. * * Nah, we just like to be different than the rest of the world ! * * *Regards, * * John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org * Please remove the "_" when replying via email > loses are proportional to current, not voltage, so 240 is better than > 110. to power appliances at 110 requires twice as much current, equals > thicker wires. > it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V > power supply. Can you imagine the economic impact on a nation the size of the US changing it's electrical grid from a standard of 110 VAC to 220VAC? Does everyone send you the bill for a complete set of new appliances (minus dryer and stove)? > Can you imagine the economic impact on a nation the size of the US changing > it's electrical grid from a standard of 110 VAC to 220VAC? Does everyone > send you the bill for a complete set of new appliances (minus dryer and > stove)? OK, forget the 220 VAC thing, but adopt the metric system for goodness sake, at least NASA did after a big screw up! and I believe to speak for the rest of the world except North America when I ask: don't call football to a sport than is played holding the ball in your hands and don't call soccer to the real Football that is played with, yes you guessed it, the foot!,. Oh, and don't call parkway the road you drive your car on and don't call driveway the place you park your car on!! :-) :^) >> Can you imagine the economic impact on a nation the size of the US > changing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Oh, and don't call parkway the road you drive your car on and don't call > driveway the place you park your car on!! :-) :^) Oh, this could go on for quite awhile. 1. Only in the USA....can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance. 2. Only in the USA...are there handicap parking places in front of a skating rink. 3. Only in the USA......do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to the back of the store to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front. 4. Only in the USA.......do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a diet coke. 5. Only in the USA......do banks leave both doors open and then chain the pens to the counters. 6. Only in the USA.......do we leave cars worth thousands of dollars in the driveway and put our useless junk in the garage. 7. Only in the USA......do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place. 8. Only in the USA.......do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in packages of eight. 9. Only in the USA......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'. 10. Only in the USA......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering. > 9. Only in the USA......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the > process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning > 'bloodsucking creatures'. Nice try ticks are not spelled tics. I heard an apparently substantiated rumour that in one or more Kodak labs, state equality laws dictated that they have a notice on the inside of the doors in their darkrooms stating "Photographic Darkroom" - both in text AND IN BRAILLE!!! <snip> > 10. Only in the USA......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille > lettering. I heard an apparently substantiated rumour that in one or more Kodak labs, state equality laws dictated that they have a notice on the inside of the doors in their darkrooms stating "Photographic Darkroom" - both in text AND IN BRAILLE!!! <snip> > 10. Only in the USA......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille > lettering. > > Can you imagine the economic impact on a nation the size of the US > changing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > OK, forget the 220 VAC thing, but adopt the metric system for goodness sake, Already tried and failed. Most of us freely know metrics and equivalents; just don't think the government should be trying to tell us what units to think in. > at least NASA did after a big screw up! Yeah and they're still killing astronauts due to their negligent screw ups. Don't think metrics is the answer... >and I believe to speak for the > rest of the world except North America when I ask: don't call football to a > sport than is played holding the ball in your hands and don't call soccer to > the real Football that is played with, yes you guessed it, the foot!,. Actually it's called football because fundamentally the ball is either kicked to the opposing team or kicked between the goal posts to score. Why call a sport where you can bat the ball with your head "football"? ;) I believe in Europe "football" is officially called rugby. In the US "soccer" is actually an altered abbreviation for "association football." So when you say soccer, you are saying football :) > Oh, and don't call parkway the road you drive your car on and don't call > driveway the place you park your car on!! :-) :^) hmmm...I think most of us do drive on our driveways. Just can't park in our garages because every real american knows a garage is for storing everything you can't keep in your house. > > Oh, and don't call parkway the road you drive your car on and don't call > > driveway the place you park your car on!! :-) :^) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > american knows a garage is for storing everything > you can't keep in your house. Ah and a "parkway" to my knowledge usually applies here in the USA to roads of special designation, thats roads that actually run through parks or are national highways of some sort. I am sure there are someplace that does not apply. Just don't get a speeding ticket on 295 outside of DC, you'llhave to go to federal court :-) and probably will pay some outrageous fine like $250.00 SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 size doesn't matter, there is plenty more populated states. But your economy is the biggest, true. Well, it would be very expensive. How much do you waste due to loses in wires? Many small appliances (radios, TV, dvd can run from both 110 and 220/240 (switching power supply. Anyway, it is your problem, not mine. * *"the analyst" <unlisted@due2spam.on.net> wrote in message *news:nuugu0dbo38s3saaq0939sfvtjs8jnbqc8@4ax.com... *> loses are proportional to current, not voltage, so 240 is better than *> 110. to power appliances at 110 requires twice as much current, equals *> thicker wires. *> it must be pure national pride to stay with imperial units and 110V *> power supply. *> *> * * *Can you imagine the economic impact on a nation the size of the US changing *it's electrical grid from a standard of 110 VAC to 220VAC? Does everyone *send you the bill for a complete set of new appliances (minus dryer and *stove)? * > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. yes. 220 volts enlargers are much prettier than 120 volts. regards, Stefano PS: are you kiddin? Signatureed io imparo... > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. Marginal. An enlarger set up for 220 volt will draw less current for a given wattage lamp, so there may be less voltage loss in the wiring. OTOH, if there is voltage loss in the wiring ("I-squared-R loss"), then the wiring should be beefed up! Can you find a timer that will control a 220V enlarger? Are the lamps readily available? Ken Hart > Marginal. An enlarger set up for 220 volt will draw less current for a given > wattage lamp, so there may be less voltage loss in the wiring. In countries where 220V wiring is used the wire sizes are smaller. The result is that resistive losses are the same. The use of 100/120/220 50/60 is historical and can usually be traced to some pissing contest between the Edison's of the world. London, at one time, had half the city on 110V and the other half on 220V. Decisions like that were not made rationally. SignatureNicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/ [---] >London, at one time, had half the city on 110V and the other half on 220V. So did Paris. I had my flat changed from 120V to 220V in 1980. Careful checks before the changeover notwithstanding, there was still a spectacular bang when I switched on the fluorescent light in the kitchen - it was the inevitable one which I had forgotten. If the question appeared ignorant to some individuals: that question was prompted by noting that Beseler on the US website sold the 23C enlarger in 120v and 220v. I was buying one for my daughter and could not understand an obvious reason for 220V in the US (and on the US websites), I had hoped some intelligent photographer would have a reasonable explanation, seems the only effect was to weed out a few ignorant photographers! Sorry. > If the question appeared ignorant to some individuals: that question was > prompted by noting that Beseler on the US website sold the 23C enlarger in > 120v and 220v. I was buying one for my daughter and could not understand an > obvious reason for 220V in the US (and on the US websites), I had hoped some > intelligent photographer would have a reasonable explanation, seems the only > effect was to weed out a few ignorant photographers! Sorry. I think its how you originally phrased the question: > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. The shortest response would be no there is no advantage, unless you live in the US or abroad, then the difference is very important. Since that includes the known world there is always an advantage to having the one you need for where you are. I think that answer is pretty well researched, therefore I guess I am not an ignorant photographer :-) SignatureLF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 There *may* be a difference if the lamp(s) used in the enlarger head work at the mains (line) voltage. This is due to the thermal inertia property of the filament in the lamp. For the same wattage, a 220-v lamp will have a thinner, higher-resistance filament which will get to working temperature at a given speed. The same wattage 110-v lamp will have a thicker, lower-resistance filament which takes more time to get to it's working temperature. This effect is easy to observe at really low voltages: take, say, a 25-watt bulb for your mains / line, and switch it on and off. It'll come on very quickly and turn off with very little afterglow time. Now look at the indicator lamps flashing in the tail cluster of the car in front when you're on the road. They don't go "immediately" on or off - you can observe them turning on and off more slowly. For "straight" B&W work it won't make too much difference, but perhaps for variable-contrast and most definately for colour work, it can make a difference, because the 110-v lamp will give out more red-end light for a longer part of the exposure. This can be compensated for with either filters or the dialling-in of filter values in an electronic head, but it is just worth knowing / thinking about... My regards, F.C. Trevor Gale. <snip> > The shortest response would be no there is no advantage, unless you > live in the US or abroad, then the difference is very important. Since [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think that answer is pretty well researched, therefore I guess I am > not an ignorant photographer :-) anyone4tennis@hotmail.com wrote: > Is there an advantage in either 120 volt vs 220 volt enlargers? > Thank you. No, nothing at all. Durst make a series of low-power DC enlargers. Lamp heat is kept to a minimum, so very little 'popping' and the 12v ensures a stable output. |
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