Printing sharp grain negs?

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

death skunk5 - 09 Jan 2005 20:24 GMT

So lately I've been developing some tri-x and HP5 in Agfa Rodinal.

I really like this developer and its ability to be mixed for various
contrast
preferences. The grain is "sharp" and heres a sample:

http://www.kframe.org/random/2.jpg

In grain terms, sharp grain does not equate to a grainless enlargement,
thats because images with a "blurry grain" tends to look smoother when
printed to say 16x20. I really like the results so far on scans. my question
is has anyone
printed rodinal negs to a fairly large size like 11x14 or 16x20 and find the
grains so
overwhelming that they prefer smoother grains.

Theres also the old trick of blurring the sharp grain a bit when you look at
the grains under
a grain focuser, does this ultimately give you the option of going "smooth"
should
the need arise?

Reply to this Message

Tom Ellliott - 10 Jan 2005 20:13 GMT

Soft grains, in defocusing, bother me much more than seeing the grain tack
sharp edge to edge. I work for an art director who will not accept prints if
ANY part of the grain is soft. When it comes to reproduction the halft tones
will show its structure before the film grain shows up, unless the halftones
are 200 line or more.
If the grain gets in the way then the subject of the photo is weak or, well
at the risk of flames, you are one of those people just love critique for
the perverse fun of critiquing.
Take pictures, make pictures and for goodness sake shoot for your heart.
Yours,
Tom
http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com/special.htm

> So lately I've been developing some tri-x and HP5 in Agfa Rodinal.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> should
> the need arise?

Reply to this Message

Richard Knoppow - 12 Jan 2005 15:08 GMT

It really doesn't because you are bluring the whole image. The
"blurry" gain of fine grain developers is due to the distribution of
the actual silver grains in the emulsion. These grains are microscopic;
what is seen in a grain focuser or by the eye is clumps of grains
caused partly by migration of the silver grains due to emulsion
softening in highly alkaline developers like Rodinal, and partly due to
the statistical distribution of the grains. Fine grain developers also
tend to yield greater covering power of the silver. Remember that what
you see as grain on a print is light coming through the holes between
the silver particals.
One of the desired effects of the sharp grain given by Rodinal is
that it gives the illusion of a sharp image. One can achieve a similar
effect by double printing a sharp grain pattern over a grainless but
somewhat blurry image.
The eye interprets edge contrast as sharpness. Rodinal, beside
giving a sharp grain pattern also tends to exagerate edge contrast, a
characteristic callled acutance. Acutance is more important to visual
sharpness than actual resolution, which is reduced in coarse grain
images.
There are other developers which yield reasonable sharp grain
which is finer than Rodinal. For instance Kodak T-Max RS. This
developer might be worth a try where the degree of enlargment makes
Rodinal negatives too grainy.
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Reply to this Message