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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2004

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Printing very old negs

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piterengel - 17 Dec 2004 08:56 GMT
Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
fixing, and the image is quite weak.
I want to use multigrade paper. Does the colour of the film affect the
filter of multigrade paper? And what can I do with a so weak image to
get a better print?

Thanks all by piterengel
Fëdor Pavlovic' - 17 Dec 2004 09:38 GMT
piterengel ha scritto:
> Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
> more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks all by piterengel

Like pmk negative is possible print on VC paper, in't easy find the
correct contrast but possible.
Try, and if you don't like results use graded paper.
--
Tom Phillips - 17 Dec 2004 13:18 GMT
> Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
> more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
> fixing, and the image is quite weak.
> I want to use multigrade paper. Does the colour of the film affect the
> filter of multigrade paper? And what can I do with a so weak image to
> get a better print?

Don't know what you mean by "weak." Low density?
First thing I'd do is soak, refix, and rewash the
negative. Then play around to see what sort of
best print you could get.

Normally for a negative with weak overall densities
I'd selenium intensify, but not sure if you should
do this with a negative degraded from improper fixing.

LIkely Richard would know...
uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com - 17 Dec 2004 14:51 GMT
It's a COLOR negative, dummy!
Francis A. Miniter - 17 Dec 2004 17:51 GMT
>It's a COLOR negative, dummy!
>
>  

Michael,

Didn't your mother teach you not to speak that way.  Show some respect.

Maybe, it is a color negative, maybe not.  But Piter Engel has
participated in the rec.photo. forums for more than a year and I am not
willing to assume that he mistook a color negative for a B&W negative.

Instead of using rudeness, you could have simply asked that he check the
film information provided on the border of the film.

Francis A. Miniter
uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com - 17 Dec 2004 19:11 GMT
'Dark orange'? Sounds like an old C-22 color negative. C-22 preceded
C-41, which was introduced with the 110 format in 1972 or so.
Frank Pittel - 17 Dec 2004 16:16 GMT
Are you sure the negative is actually B&W?? If not you're going to need to
do a lot get get the contrast right.

: Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
: more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
: fixing, and the image is quite weak.
: I want to use multigrade paper. Does the colour of the film affect the
: filter of multigrade paper? And what can I do with a so weak image to
: get a better print?

: Thanks all by piterengel

Signature

Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
fwp@deepthought.com

jjs - 17 Dec 2004 17:34 GMT
> Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
> more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
> fixing, and the image is quite weak.

There should be some printing on the edge of the film which will tell you
the film type. If you post it here we can tell if it is truly B&W or a color
negative. Richard K has some information regarding redeveloping B&W film. If
we are fortunate he might be able to help us.
laura halliday - 17 Dec 2004 19:42 GMT
> Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
> more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks all by piterengel

I recently printed some old family pictures myself,
colour and black and white, from the early 1960s.

The black and white negatives (Verichrome Pan?)
have all printed perfectly. The colour negatives
(no idea what film they were, except for being made
by Kodak) print just fine too, though some of the
have the characteristic weird colour from using
daylight film indoors, or vice-versa.

As for multigrade paper, think about the colour:
orange = red + green. Red is irrelevant to paper,
but green means low contrast for multigrade. So
if you don't do anything you'll get low contrast.

As others have suggested, there are things you can
try. I'd pick the worst image as a test (I assume
you have more than one) - if it doesn't work you
haven't lost anything, because the negative was
unprintable anyway.

Laura Halliday VE7LDH     "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg                    pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W       - Hospital/Shafte
Francis A. Miniter - 18 Dec 2004 02:30 GMT
> Hi all, a friend of mine gave me a very old negative (30 years or
> more) to print it. The film is dark orange, maybe for an incorrect
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks all by piterengel

Hi Piter,

You are showing your youth.  There are those among us who have negatives that we
ourselves shot that go much farther back than 30 years.  I am afraid that that
must make us very, very old.

In any case, I have printed negatives my father shot 60 odd years ago in India
during WWII.  No problem, even though some of them have developed a bit of
bronzing.  Standard printing techniques suffice.  I do find that the images I
have been dealing with tend to be high contrast negatives and printing with low
contrast paper (or on VC paper with a lot of yellow filtration) is usually
required.

If the negative with which you are dealing is a color negative and you wish to
print it as a black and white image, then you will need to use a combination of
yellow and magenta filtration and print on Kodak Panalure paper (or its
equivalent) for best results.  No safelight can be used while exposing and
developing this paper as the paper is panchromatic.

Francis A. Miniter
Mike King - 19 Dec 2004 16:51 GMT
In a pinch I have used Multigrade to print color negatives using higher
grade filters, the grayscale will not reproduce accurately but the image was
much improved by using higher contrast paper.  Exposures ran very long.
Since the orange light transmitted by the negatives were in the part of the
spectrum that black and white papers are least sensitive.  Try it and see
before trying to find Panalure.  (I miss the high contrast Panalure that
Kodak made a while back!)

Wet darkroom purists should stop reading my reply now because I am going to
suggest a "digital" alternative.

Scan the negative on a high quality flat bed scanner with a transparency
adapter lid or use a large format negative scanner and reverse the scan in
Photoshop, play with curves and then print it out on a inkjet printer.

My apologies to the group and lets all go back to the darkroom.  For penance
I am going into the darkroom today and mix some paper developer.

Signature

darkroommike

----------

>
> Hi Piter,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Francis A. Miniter
The Wogster - 19 Dec 2004 16:59 GMT
> In a pinch I have used Multigrade to print color negatives using higher
> grade filters, the grayscale will not reproduce accurately but the image was
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> My apologies to the group and lets all go back to the darkroom.  For penance
> I am going into the darkroom today and mix some paper developer.

Scan the negative, get it the way you want it, flop it back to a
negative, print it on the inkjet using transparency film, the contact
print it on 8x10 print paper.

W
Richard Knoppow - 21 Dec 2004 14:33 GMT
This may be a color negative. Look at the image using a strong
magnifier or under the enlarger. If its a color negative you should see
some reversed color in parts of the image.
Color negatives are best printed on panchromatic paper. AFAIK, the
only one on the market is Kodak Panalure. This is a B&W RC paper of
fixed contrast grade. It is similar to other B&W RC papers except that
it is sensitive to all colors. It must be handeled in total darkness or
under a color safelight (No.13). Other than that it is processed just
like any other B&W paper. The somwhat weak looking image also sounds
like a color negative.
If this _is_ a heavily stained B&W negative you still may be able
to make a decent print on Panalure, otherwise the best procedure is to
make the best copy of the negative you can or to scan it. It is
possible to remove the stain but the procedures have the risk of
destroying the image. Overall dark yellow or orange stains can be
caused by oxidized developer left in the negative. It can also be
caused by insufficient fixing or washing but those more often produce a
blotched stain.
Graded papers are sensitive to blue and UV light so a heavily
stained negative may be difficult or impossible to print. VC paper has
some sensitivity to green light but the stain will affect the contrast
and may still cut off all the light the paper is sensitive to. VC paper
will make prints from color negatives but they are quite inferior to
those made on panchromatic paper.
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
raoul - 26 Dec 2004 22:47 GMT
> This may be a color negative. Look at the image using a strong
> magnifier or under the enlarger. If its a color negative you should see
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> like any other B&W paper. The somwhat weak looking image also sounds
> like a color negative.

Perhaps a little off topic:

Isn't there a color process B&W paper that is marketed to one-hour labs
to prit chromogentic B&W and color in B&W? Perhaps the original poster
could take it into a lab and see what happens. If the objective of the
original poster was to print the negative in their own lab, they could
choose their material from there.  Or just use the commercial lab
print.

raoul
 
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