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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2004Shelf life of E6 chemicals
I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will still be serviceable. However, I found a 6-bath Tetenal kit that I bought last year that I forgot about and has not been opened. If sealed, what might I realistically expect for a shelf life of the Tetenal? Would you use it? Thanks, Paul "I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will still be serviceable." What? What? WHAT? Umm...yes. I bought a six bath Kodak E6 kit in April, mixed one batch for a few 8x10 Fujichromes and haven't touched it since. The diluted chemicals have been discarded but I assume that the undiluted chemicals are still usable. Better? > "I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will > still be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > WHAT? No, opened chemistry of that age is dead. : Umm...yes. I bought a six bath Kodak E6 kit in April, mixed one batch for a : few 8x10 Fujichromes and haven't touched it since. The diluted chemicals : have been discarded but I assume that the undiluted chemicals are still : usable. Better? The first thing you want to do is ignore the troll. The second thing you want to do is look on the box the chemistry came in and look at the expiration<SP?> date on the box. I've done the same thing you did and after six months of sitting on a shelf I had more E6 to develop and mixed up what I needed and it worked fine. I also just dump a kit with half of it left because it past the expiration date.  SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com Ah, but he said this is OPENED chemistry, FP! It is certainly deceased. plonk. You seriously need to find another newsgroup to disrupt. killfile for you. >Ah, but he said this is OPENED chemistry, FP! >It is certainly deceased. Cheers, -sd http://www.zoom.sh Opened E-6 chemistry from April? It's dead. Many thanks to all. Paul > : Umm...yes. I bought a six bath Kodak E6 kit in April, mixed one batch for a > : few 8x10 Fujichromes and haven't touched it since. The diluted chemicals [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I also just dump a kit with half of it left because it past the expiration date. > I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will still be > serviceable. If it wasn't mixed completely (I only mix what I need and keep the concentrates), it may be fine. First developer darkens with oxydation, it's a good indicator. You may increase concentrates' life by filling the bottles with inert gaz. With any chemical, if you have a doubt, don't develop important films with it. > However, I found a 6-bath Tetenal kit that I bought last year that I forgot > about and has not been opened. If sealed, what might I realistically expect > for a shelf life of the Tetenal? Would you use it? It should be fine, but, again, try it first with non-important films. > Thanks, > Paul Regards, Claudio Bonavolta http://www.bonavolta.ch Thank you all for your input. I tried the opened Kodak and it was fine. Paul > > I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will still > be [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Claudio Bonavolta > http://www.bonavolta.ch On 12/11/2004 3:17 PM P. Meschter spake thus: > Thank you all for your input. I tried the opened Kodak and it was fine. > Paul Ha! Take that, U-235 (or is it U-238?). "Deceased". "Dead". "Useless". HA! Your credibility is down another 85 points. SignatureDon't blame Ralph Nader: blame Gavin Newsom. Were the BOTTLES opened, or just the box? No way opened bottles would still be usable after 9 months. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis49/cis49.jhtml?i d=0.1.14.34.9.16.26&lc=en "Working Solutions and Oxidation--Once the original container is opened, the chemicals are exposed to oxidation. Reaction of chemicals, especially developers, with oxygen in the air will gradually cause them to deteriorate. Oxidation continues to some extent even if the container is immediately resealed. You can reduce oxidation by storing working solutions in amounts that can be used all at one time. For example, if you open a 10-gallon-size package, mix the entire amount, and then store the solution in 1-gallon containers. Then, each time you open a container you can use the entire amount, and the remaining mix is not exposed to air." http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml;jsessionid=XQJNZANRU5IUHFW4FBBHWD2W 1YUEK4L4?pq-path=528&mode=&query=E-6+chemistry+storage+opened&x=0&y=0&pq-locale= en_US&_requestid=35902 Uhmm, Yes they would. Regardless of material posted by the 'objective' chemical manufacturer (like telling everyone they go bad after 6 months is not a way to increase sales or anything like that, no, they wouldn't do that, would they?). The world is not a lith toned picture. : Uhmm, Yes they would. Regardless of material posted by the 'objective' : chemical manufacturer (like telling everyone they go bad after 6 months is : not a way to increase sales or anything like that, no, they wouldn't do : that, would they?). To be fair I think we can all agree that it's best not to open the bottles until you actually need them. I figure that with the one shot kit being marketed to the "home" user they would have to do something about the shelf life of the concentrate chemistry. That would be the only way that they would be able to sell the 5L kits. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com Frank, I buy larger kits all the time (Ilford P3 in 20 liter, Tetenal C-41 & RA-4 & D-76 in 5 liter) and preserve the opened concentrates with Protectan (butane cigarette lighter gas is the same stuff if you look at the MSDS). I also place them in brown glass bottles. These measures keep the concentrates for better than a year without discoloration or deterioration (at least not detectable in the developed materials). It just takes some good preventative measures and you can keep partially emptied concentrates for an extended time. But, I know, the OP didn't say he had taken those measures. However, if I can keep them for 16 to 18 months with these measures, they should last at least half that without. Note: none of what I said related to partially used working solutions. However, I have kept RA-4 (working solutions) partially used for many months using the same techniques. Too bad Tetenal killed the Tabs. They were good kits with single (or tailorable) amounts of chemistry for the volume at hand. Always fresh and one-shot. : Frank, : I buy larger kits all the time (Ilford P3 in 20 liter, Tetenal C-41 & : RA-4 & D-76 in 5 liter) and preserve the opened concentrates with Protectan [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] : RA-4 (working solutions) partially used for many months using the same : techniques. I also liked using Protectan until I couldn't get it anymore. Now I use cans of compressed "air". Aside from the E6 one shot kit I use Tmax-rs which I get by the gallon, Kodak's rapid fixer, and Tetenal's c41 press kit. I use all of them in less time then their rated storage life. : Too bad Tetenal killed the Tabs. They were good kits with single (or : tailorable) amounts of chemistry for the volume at hand. Always fresh and : one-shot. I don't ever remember being able to get the tablets here in the US. The 1 liter press kit is a reasonable amount of chemistry to mix at once. For me that amounts to between five and eight rolls of 35mm, 3-4 rolls of MF or as many as 24 sheets of of 4x5. For me that's not hard to "save" before processing. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I don't ever remember being able to get the tablets here in the US. The 1 > liter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sheets of > of 4x5. For me that's not hard to "save" before processing. The Tabs and the 'Pearls' (RA-4) were available here in Europe for about 18 months. I think Tetenal's biggest failure in marketing them was they stated on the outside of the box (and in marketing literature) the kit was good for 12-36 exp. rolls. However, in the instructions they showed doubling the capacity with a 15 second time increase. They cost the equivalent of $20 for the box and that made them expensive on a per roll basis (C-41) if you used the 12 roll figure. Cheaper if you used the 24 roll figure. I never did try the pearls (RA-4), as I find a greater economy in using the 5 liter kits. Plus I need a 2.5 liter volume for my processor (ACP-302). I agree, for one-shot use the press kit is cheaper than taking them out for processing. Shouldn't you be able to get about 32-4X5's? Jim : > I don't ever remember being able to get the tablets here in the US. The 1 : > liter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : > sheets of : > of 4x5. For me that's not hard to "save" before processing. : The Tabs and the 'Pearls' (RA-4) were available here in Europe for about 18 : months. I think Tetenal's biggest failure in marketing them was they stated [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : did try the pearls (RA-4), as I find a greater economy in using the 5 liter : kits. Plus I need a 2.5 liter volume for my processor (ACP-302). I heard that they were hard to dessolve. When the tabs were first released I was looking forward to them being sold here in the US. In the end I settled on the press kit for C41. The stuff is cheap and it mixes easily. I just wish it didn't come in a powder. : I agree, for one-shot use the press kit is cheaper than taking them out for : processing. Shouldn't you be able to get about 32-4X5's? In theory I should be able to get 36 4x5s. However the Jobo tank I use holds 6 4x5 sheets of film and uses 270ml of chemistry. I shave off 20ml and take advantage of the splashing of chemistry to give me even development. With only the exception of stop and fixer I only use chemistry one shot. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com > I heard that they were hard to dessolve. When the tabs were first released > I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wish > it didn't come in a powder. Moot point, but they dissolved pretty easy. I'd throw them in the necessary amount of demineralized water and drop them in the Jobo to warm up to temp. By the time it got to 35 Celsius, they were dissolved and a quick stir was all that was needed. Too bad. Really convenient. I had made an offer to ship anyone (at cost) who wanted to try a set and maybe get Jobo USA to start importing. No one took me up on the offer... Good idea, lousy marketing. I suppose the chemicals might still 'work', but not anywhere near spec. >I suppose the chemicals might still 'work', but not anywhere near spec. Yesterday, I mixed up a batch of C-41 that was originally opened in October 2003. According to color densitometer checks, there is no degradation or measurable difference in a gray card when compared with film that was processed when the chemistry was brand new (2cc yellow shift, but that's not at all unusual). Storage of the concentrates was in brown glass bottles in a dark cabinet at room temp. Air in the developer concentrate parts bottles was displaced with Protectan gas. That's a good product! Where can I get some Protectan gas? > That's a good product! Where can I get some Protectan gas? According to the MSDS (available from Tetenal's web site) it's a 90 - 100% mixture of propane/butane gases. The same stuff as gas lighter refill you can buy at a local drug store. All you need is a little squirt (about 1 to 2 seconds if a 1 liter bottle is 80% or better filled), so it'll last a while. I don't know if Protectan is available in the US any longer, if so, mail order will slap a hazardous shipping charge on it as well. Without such a product, though, color chemical 9 months old won't be good. > Without such a product, though, color chemical 9 months old won't be > good. Arguable. It would depend upon many factors in the storage process. To include type of bottle, temp, heat/cooling cycling, exposed chemical surface area are a few that come to mind. The best way to determine is to test, and the OP did just that to his favor. To make a concrete stand based upon so many unknowns is illogical (that last line in my best Spock voice:). : > That's a good product! Where can I get some Protectan gas? : According to the MSDS (available from Tetenal's web site) it's a 90 - 100% : mixture of propane/butane gases. The same stuff as gas lighter refill you : can buy at a local drug store. All you need is a little squirt (about 1 to : 2 seconds if a 1 liter bottle is 80% or better filled), so it'll last a : while. I don't know if Protectan is available in the US any longer, if so, : mail order will slap a hazardous shipping charge on it as well. All the places I used to get it from stopped carrying it a long time ago. SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com I figured it would be. I would recommend that you mix what you need for your immediate needs and not store mixed chemistry though. : Thank you all for your input. I tried the opened Kodak and it was fine. : Paul : > > I have some Kodak E6 that was opened in April and assume this will still : > be [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] : > Claudio Bonavolta : > http://www.bonavolta.ch SignatureKeep working millions on welfare depend on you ------------------- fwp@deepthought.com |
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