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Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / November 2004

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Glass cleaner spot

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piterengel - 26 Nov 2004 07:04 GMT
Hi, this is the matter. I've an old photo having a large blue spot
(6-7 cm of diameter) on a corner. This is due to an improper use of
glass cleaner used on the glass protecting the picture. The blue is
the dye of the glass cleaner, methylene blue or similar. The big spot
is fortunately on a white zone of the paper. The photo was printed
many years ago surely on baryta paper. My first idea was to treat it
with hydrogen peroxyde to oxydize the dye. Maybe also sodium
hypochlorite could work but I think it can also react with silver of
the paper. Obviously some pre-test should be done before try on the
photo. This is a very important matter for me not being mine the
photo.

Thanks all

P.
Jean-David Beyer - 26 Nov 2004 13:17 GMT
> Hi, this is the matter. I've an old photo having a large blue spot
> (6-7 cm of diameter) on a corner. This is due to an improper use of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> photo. This is a very important matter for me not being mine the
> photo.

I am not sure you want to do either of those, but I would be more
comfortable with hydrogen peroxide than sodium hypochlorite.

Can you rephotograph it with a suitable blue filter, and make a print from
that? Look at it through various blue filters and see. If it is Windex(R),
you might need a cyan filter.

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The Wogster - 26 Nov 2004 15:45 GMT
I have an interesting idea:

Start with a nice 35mm negative, scan into computer at high resolution.
Process using Photoshop or other similar tools.
Use Dan Burkholder's process to create an 8x10 inkjet negative.
Contact print onto standard photo paper.

Pros:

1) Being able to perform some magic and still get a permanent print.
2) Being able to print a colour negative or slide without needing
special paper.
3) It's easier to do dodging and burning within PS then with a
traditional enlarger.

Cons:
You have the inkjet negative which costs a fortune to make....

Comments?
Gregory W Blank - 26 Nov 2004 16:55 GMT
> I have an interesting idea:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Comments?

"Your" interesting idea has been done are you implying its
an original idea on your part?
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LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Christopher Woodhouse - 26 Nov 2004 17:47 GMT
It is too difficult and expensive. The end result still looks tainted by the
digital smegma. It has to be a really special shot to warrant the effort and
cost.

On 26/11/04 4:55 pm, in article teJpd.17$Hk6.6@trnddc05, "Gregory W Blank"
<gblank@despamit.net> wrote:

>> I have an interesting idea:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> "Your" interesting idea has been done are you implying its
> an original idea on your part?
Lloyd Usenet-Erlick - 27 Nov 2004 11:32 GMT
>It is too difficult and expensive. The end result still looks tainted by the
>digital smegma. It has to be a really special shot to warrant the effort and
>cost.

nov2704 from Lloyd Erlick,

a really special shot...

to warrant the effort...

and
>cost.  ...

for an 8x10 final result?

regards,
--le
Signature

________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd.com
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

The Wogster - 27 Nov 2004 18:17 GMT
>>I have an interesting idea:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> "Your" interesting idea has been done are you implying its
> an original idea on your part?

No, but the idea of going from film originally, rather then starting
with something originally digital......

W
Cedomir Igaly - 28 Nov 2004 09:39 GMT
> No, but the idea of going from film originally, rather then starting
> with something originally digital......

Since you mentioned Dan Burkholder, did you seen his book  named "Making
Digital Negative for Contact Printing"?  Chapter 6 is called "Getting
Your Image into the Computer" and it is mostly about scanning (prints or
films).

C.I.
Richard Knoppow - 28 Nov 2004 01:37 GMT
> Hi, this is the matter. I've an old photo having a large
> blue spot
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> P.

  Have you tried washing the print?  It may be the dye is
water soluble and will wash out. A 5 or 10 minute wash will
not hurt the paper. Dry it as you would a new print on
baryta. Its also possible that a sodium sulfite solution
like Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent will either remove the dye or
decolorize it. This also will do no harm to the print and
can be combined with washing it.
  Another possibility is that the dye is not acid fast. You
can probably test this directly by putting some stop bath
into a sample of the window cleaner. If it works soak the
print in water for a few minutes and then treat it in stop
bath. Then wash for 10 minutes. This is again harmless.
  If that doesn't work I suggest first making a test by
staining some plain writing paper with the window cleaner
and finding out what will bleach it. I have no idea what the
dye is so can't suggest a specific treatment. Since the
photo is evidently valuable I am reluctant to suggest any
bleaching method although there are some which will remove
dye stains. They require redeveloping the image.
  Do _not_ use houshold bleach on the print, it will remove
the emulsion completely!

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---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

Nicholas O. Lindan - 28 Nov 2004 16:34 GMT
> "piterengel" <pslaviero@interfree.it> wrote
> > photo having a large blue spot due to glass cleaner

> Have you tried washing the print?  It may be the dye is
> water soluble and will wash out.

My experience with Windex stains indicates the
dye, when dry, doesn't seem all that water soluble.  It may
form a mordant with cellulose, though.

The best solvent (er, wash agent) may be _clear_ window cleaner.
Windex used to make one, but I haven't seen it around.

As I recall, glass cleaners are made from alcohols and
glycols with some having ammonia and detergents.  Windex
leaves a gummy residue behind as some of the glycols don't
evaporate.  Isopropyl with a drop of photoflow may work.

And I will wager Tide works like a charm, or we would have
housewives up in arms and no blue dye.  I would also wager
Tide is pretty good at stripping emulsion, what with it
being silver-bearing Jell-O.

As Richard says, I would make up a lot of test prints to
experiment on first.

The other alternative would be PhotoShop and the making
of a copy negative through a blue filter.

> I have no idea what the dye is so can't suggest a specific
> treatment ... I am reluctant to suggest any
> bleaching method

The dye doesn't fade, or at least a bottle left out in the
sun doesn't. I would hazard a guess it is not organic,
in the easily bleachable sense.

At one time I thought it was copper sulfate, but as it is
not easily removable (that's an understatement) it doesn't
seem to be that simple.

An MSDS search may yield some information.

If you find the solution, be sure to publish it.

Signature

Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer:  Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

 
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