Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
PhotoKB Home
Discussion Groups
Digital Photography
Digital PhotoDSLR CamerasZLR CamerasPoint & Shoot Cameras
Film Photography
35 mmLarge FormatMedium formatDarkroomFilm and LabsOther Equipment
Photo Technique
Nature PhotographyPeople PhotographyTechnique General
General Photo Topics
General TopicsAustralian PhotographyUK Photography
DirectoryPhoto Clubs

Photo Forum / Film Photography / Darkroom / December 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

THE ZONE SYSTEM RULES !!!!

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Udie Lafing - 24 Nov 2004 21:23 GMT
TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!

 Only a complete imbecile would totally disregard
the awesome scientific knowledge that has been
bestowed on our humble photographic community.

Bow and kneel to the superior logic of its
very existance.
Signature

LOL!!!

Tom Phillips - 24 Nov 2004 21:27 GMT
> TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> LOL!!!

Holidays are clearly boring...
Udie Lafing - 24 Nov 2004 22:13 GMT
> Holidays are clearly boring...

And this Beats the hell out of Turkey Soup
and  Chow Mein :-)
Signature

LOL!!!

Tom Phillips - 25 Nov 2004 02:38 GMT
> > Holidays are clearly boring...
>
> And this Beats the hell out of Turkey Soup
> and  Chow Mein :-)

Ah, I guess it would ;)

> --
> LOL!!!
Mark Rabiner - 26 Nov 2004 15:15 GMT
On 11/24/04 6:38 PM, in article 41A545BA.F3D9B999@aol.com, "Tom Phillips"
<nospam777@aol.com> typed:

>>> Holidays are clearly boring...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> --
>> LOL!!!

There is no one true zone system.
But many.

And one must find their own path.

Depending on ones thresholds.

Of ones film and developer combination.

Mark Rabiner
Photography
Portland Oregon
http://rabinergroup.com/
The Wogster - 26 Nov 2004 15:36 GMT
> There is no one true zone system.
> But many.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Of ones film and developer combination.

The real purpose of using processes like the Zone system, are to get the
lightest and darkest shades to both fit within the capabilities of the
film in use.   The newer films, and newer emulsions of older films, have
much more capabilties then say films made in the 1940's and '50's heck
they are better then the films in the 1970's.

When the zone system started, films typically had 6-7 stops available to
them, modern films are closer to 10-11 stops, so where in 1950 you
needed to be very careful in the darkroom to force a 9 stop scene into a
6 stop film, the same scene today fits comfortably into the capabilities
of the film....  Not to say that you can't use the same techniques to
force a 12 stop scene into a 10 stop film.  You need to, though know the
capabilities of the film in question, and that involves, not hard and
fast rules, but intimate knowledge with the film.  Shoot 2 rules of FP-4
and apply the zone system, and you don't know much about FP-4, shoot 200
rolls under varying conditions, and you learn a lot about the films
capabilities, and where exactly you need to apply other techniques to
get it to do something for you.

Other possibilities, it's going to be different if you make AgBr prints,
then if you soup and scan, for digital processing.

W
Gregory W Blank - 26 Nov 2004 16:51 GMT
> The real purpose of using processes like the Zone system, are to get the
> lightest and darkest shades to both fit within the capabilities of the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Other possibilities, it's going to be different if you make AgBr prints,
> then if you soup and scan, for digital processing.

I agree with what your saying here, as an addendum its relevant to note
that Silver based papers are going to record  or hold about a 5 -5 1/2 stop
range maximum regardless of the film.

This includes color papers which are dye substrate and silver coupled.
Lambda, Light Jet etc are using the same
technology, that has not caught up to film technology, so my point is
that film advancements are a mixed blessing. At some point perhaps
the papers will advance, but who knows?
Signature

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

The Wogster - 27 Nov 2004 18:14 GMT
>>The real purpose of using processes like the Zone system, are to get the
>>lightest and darkest shades to both fit within the capabilities of the
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> that film advancements are a mixed blessing. At some point perhaps
> the papers will advance, but who knows?

That is true, however, there are differences, currently there are four
possible processes in use:

1) Film to AgBr print.
2) Film to Digital to Giclee print.
3) Film to Digital to Giclee Negative to AgBr print
4) Film to Digital to Laser AgBr Print

In the first, you can do a lot with paper processing to cram a 10 stop
negative into a 5 stop paper, by varying enlarger type, contrast,
exposure time and developing time, and both dodging and burning
techniques.  In the other cases, you can change things on the digital
side, to compensate, by reducing contrast, enhancing brightness, etc.
The third method is something I would like to play with.....

W
Francis A. Miniter - 26 Nov 2004 19:43 GMT
> There is no one true zone system.
> But many.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Portland Oregon
> http://rabinergroup.com/

You have learned well, little squirrel.  You are ready to leave the monsatery
for the real world now.

Francis A. Miniter
Christopher Woodhouse - 27 Nov 2004 09:48 GMT
I can see the Trilogy now:

The fellowship of the lens

The two Zones

The return of the halides.

On 26/11/04 7:43 pm, in article 41a789b7_2@news1.prserv.net, "Francis A.
Miniter" <miniter@attglobalZZ.net> wrote:

>> There is no one true zone system.
>> But many.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Francis A. Miniter
Uranium Committee - 25 Nov 2004 22:16 GMT
> TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>  Bow and kneel to the superior logic of its
> very existance.

There is no 'N'!
Stefan Kahlert - 03 Dec 2004 21:05 GMT
> There is no 'N'!

but don't call its name three times!
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.